My L67 swapped Ciera

[skalor]

Ok, here is my contribution to those that are interested in an L67 swap into their A-body. I started with a 1989 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera International Couple that came with a 3300/4T60. I picked this car for it being one of the lighter GM FWD cars that can accept the L67 with no major modifications. Plus, I think it’s one of the sportier looking A-bodies along with VRs and STEs. :D
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/Int1.jpg
I started with purchasing the engine/trans from a '99 Regal GS and a wiring harness from a ’99 Grand Prix GT (yes, non-supercharged). There are various differences between L67s throughout the years but the best match is one from a W-body. The reason being is that they have the oil pan and oil filter adapter that best fit A-bodies. The reason I used a wiring harness from a ’99 Grand Prix GT is that they seem to have least amount of security issues and they don’t have a fuel pump resistor like the GTP harness. Also, I already had HP Tuners for a ’99 Grand Prix so that was also a main driving reason. I cleaned up the engine and painted the fuel rails and exhaust manifolds with high temp ceramic paints. I also replaced some gaskets including the valve cover gaskets since they are prone to leak.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/L67-1.jpg
For the engine mounts I used a stock 3300 engine mount and bracket. It bolted straight up to the L67 and locates the engine correctly so that you can use the stock 3300 trans mounts as well.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/L67_Ciera/ACbracket-2.jpg
Also, that’s a stock 3300 A/C bracket bolted on as well. I did have to slightly notch the one corner where it was hitting the supercharger tensioner bracket.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/L67_Ciera/ACbracket-1.jpg
The front trans mount can be a stock 3300 mount and bracket and it will bolt straight up to the 4T65E. Now, the rear trans mounts can kind of get a little tricky. As far as I can tell sometime in early ’99 they removed the extra mounting bosses on the rear of the 4T65E. So the stock 3300 rear trans mount will not bolt up. At this point I had to fabricate my own adapter plate to bolt the stock 3300 trans mount to the 4T65E and it worked out fine.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/L67_Ciera/reartransbracket-1.jpg
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/L67_Ciera/reartransbracket-2.jpg
I test fit the engine and transmission on the A-body subframe to make sure the clearances were ok. I was told that I would have a clearance problem between the transmission and the steering rack, but there was not an issue. Also take notice that the factory high pressure power steering line from the L67 was the right thread for the A-body rack. I did have bend it a little but only a slight tweak to get the threads to line up.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/rackclearance.jpg

I bought new rubber mounts and after a year of use they still seem to be holding up fine. The stock 3300 upper torque mount (aka. dog-bone) doesn’t fit into the stock L67s bracket. I did found that a 3100 A-body dog-bone and radiator support mount fits without modifications. The only major mechanical thing left is the axles. Here’s what I did for axles and they still seem to be fine after over a year of driving it. The driver’s side is easy as I was able to reuse most of the stock 3300/4T60. I only changed the inner joint since the 4T65E is splined differently. The passenger side is a little more difficult. I used a stock 3300/4T60 outer joint, a 3100/4T60E shaft, and the L67/4T65E inner joint. My stock 3300 fan almost hit the front exhaust manifold. In fact if you look at the 3300 front manifold they have an indentation to clear the fan motor. I swapped it out to a later 3100 style fan that has a flat motor. The whole fan/shroud bolted straight to my stock radiator support so it worked out well. For the exhaust I made a complete 3” mandrel bent setup. The factory outlet of the L67 is 3” so I figures since I was going to be putting a turbo on it within a year that I may as well make a full 3” setup right away. My setup comprised of a high flow catalytic converter, 18” Dynomax bullet as a resonator, and a Dynomax Ultraflow muffler. The whole exhaust is of a straight-thru design to minimize exhaust backpressure.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/downpipe.jpg
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/exhaust1.jpg
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/exhaust2.jpg
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/exhaust3.jpg

[skalor]

Now, I would consider the real meat of the swap to be with the wiring changes needed. Since A-bodies have the ECM in the cabin we really get the short end of the stick here. What I ended up doing was separating the engine harness from the chassis harness except for a few key areas like fuel pump, A/C, gauges, brake switch, and a few others. There is a lot of wiring that has to be removed since the whole engine wiring harness from the 3300 in my case was worthless. There are two bulkhead connectors on the firewall, one on the driver’s side and one on the passenger’s side. The driver’s side bulkhead connecter feeds the C100, which contains most of the gauge wires, main glove-box fuse-block power, etc. While the passenger side connector feeds most of the engine wiring such as sensors, relays, etc. Most of the wiring on the passenger side connector gets removed.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/extrawire-2.jpg
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/LotsOfWires.jpg
There were a lot of little changes that I did to make the swap seem like a factory setup. I moved the battery to the driver’s side using a later W-body battery tray.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/batterytray.jpg
One of the main reasons for moving the battery was so I could mount the PCM where the battery used to be located. I used a Blazer PCM tray to hold the PCM and it worked out nicely.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/PCMtraydrivers.jpg
I modified the factory L67 engine fuse box to mount on my passenger side just like it was mounted in W-bodies. You’ll also notice the tiny radiator overflow tank I squeezed next to the battery. It’s from a Geo Metro and was the smallest that I could find.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/enginebay2.jpg
While on the topic of the radiator I used my factory 3300 radiator and it’s worked fine. As far as the hoses are concerned I used a factory 3300 lower radiator hose, and the cut the 3300 upper radiator hose to fit. In this picture you can also see the custom 4” intake that I made. It may not have been ideal but it got the job done.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/intake2.jpg
I also picked up a nice Oldsmobile boost gauge a while ago from GM Performance Parts. It was made by Autometer and is a liquid filled gauge. I don't have a picture of it mounted but here's the gauge compared to my factory cluster.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/gauge-2.jpg
Here's what it looked like when it was all done and driving.
http://www.gmv6.org/gallery/l67_ciera/enginebay1.jpg


That’s really all I have right now. I do have more info from my turbo conversion but I’ll have to write that up another day. :D

[Cutlass]

Truly a cool project. Thanks for posting this here.

[Slacker]

Awesome project!

How does it ride compared to the 3300? (I figure the L67 has quite a bit of HP on it....)

[Tonglebeak]

So, what exactly would be involved with the 2.8? >_>

Would all of the 3300 mounts and such swap into the 2.8 with no problems?

[mickstan_VR]

Very, Very nice. Great job. A+++++

[notsoslimshady76]

nice!! welcome back

[dcjredline]

:) WHAT? Your car wasnt sweet enough you had to do THAT to it?

Very cool hope your enjoying it.:eek:

[skalor]

As far as swapping a L67 into a 2.8 equipped car is concernced, you would have to acquire the front 3300 engine mount bracket at the very least. I think that the trans mounts would work but I'm not sure if TH125C and 4T60 mounts are the same. The sub-frames are the same so I don't see the mounts being different, but it's possible since I have never really looked at them.

Thanks for all the compliments. :D

[Electra_T_Type]

Awesome, now I know what to do with the 3300 Century.

[RIVI72]

Finally someone listened lol awesome project this has really inspired me to do mine now :)

[LordDurock]

yea it time for a turbo in mine but thats getting complated becauce i dont have a lot of space.......................................like the air cleaner interferes with my 2nd battery.

but enought of that VERY COOL PROJECT.

[mickstan_VR]

Man that is sooooo nice. It looks like it belongs in there. Great attention to the details Skalor. You should be proud. How many hours do you guess you put into it so far. I've got a thousand questions, but I don't know where to start?!?!?!?

[skalor]

Thanks, I changed a couple things while it was still supercharged to clean up a few things. One of the main things was the fuel lines. In the pictures above I just had steel line for temporary use until I found ones that fit from another car. I found that ones from a 4th gen V6 F-body were perfect to mate with the stock A-body line. They already had a reflective jacket on them so I added some more to hid the union. Here's the the car currently sits with the supercharger gone and a Turbonetics 60-1 in it's place. :D

http://www.gmv6.org/Gallery/L67_Ciera/turbociera1.jpg

I still have to finish the loom on the wiring harness, but I'll get there eventually.

[RIVI72]

:eek: That is so fricken sweet your car is an idol to my car lol jk good job on the swap

[MR2Di4]

Dayum!!! That is downright awesome... :eek:

Dare I ask how well your car goes after the supercharged engine went in and even more so after the turbo? Must be a hell of a rush to put your foot into it...

WE DEMAND VIDS!!! :)

[skalor]

Here's the last video I made of the car running 0-120 mph on 7 psi. I rolled on the gas from a stop so I wouldn't blow the tires away. :D

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/9396ef26-0ea6-4900-8c93-998d001ee4e3.htm

[thebaron]

Sweet! I am planning a 3.3 swap in my citation, but do plan a l67 swap in future.

[skalor]

My brother and I went down to the track on Friday to get some runs in before I put in bigger injectors and run more boost. For track prep I pumped up my rear air shocks, no spare, 40 psi in the rear tires, and 28 psi in the front. I only have 225/50/16s on the car, but I was hoping for some good 60's with the rear being raised from the shocks. My best time was actually on my worst 60' of the day. It was on my first run right after the sun went down so the track was probably still pretty warm. After that run I got one 2.1 60' and then two 2.0 60's, so I got better at launching the car as the night went on. The track got slicker as the night went on and they prepped the line well, but I was spinning at the top of first. it got down into the 40s near the end of the night. Anyways, here's the best time of the night and this was only on 7 psi. :D

60' - 2.218
1/8 - 8.757
MPH - 84.30
1/4 - 13.418
MPH - 105.61

[notsoslimshady76]

13.4 is better than any GM engineer imagined for the lowly A body lol

[RIVI72]

That's pretty good for an A-body now get into the low 12's and that would sweet a$$ hehe
Good job man :D

[LordDurock]

My brother and I went down to the track on Friday to get some runs in before I put in bigger injectors and run more boost. For track prep I pumped up my rear air shocks, no spare, 40 psi in the rear tires, and 28 psi in the front. I only have 225/50/16s on the car, but I was hoping for some good 60's with the rear being raised from the shocks. My best time was actually on my worst 60' of the day. It was on my first run right after the sun went down so the track was probably still pretty warm. After that run I got one 2.1 60' and then two 2.0 60's, so I got better at launching the car as the night went on. The track got slicker as the night went on and they prepped the line well, but I was spinning at the top of first. it got down into the 40s near the end of the night. Anyways, here's the best time of the night and this was only on 7 psi. :D

60' - 2.218
1/8 - 8.757
MPH - 84.30
1/4 - 13.418
MPH - 105.61


what was you aultuted.

[skalor]

It's about 550 ft above sea level. The car has 12s in on a good launch and a warm track on 7 psi. I'm definitely going back on a Sunday next time, but I'll be running 12 psi...so I'm shooting for a 12.6 @ 110. :D

[RIVI72]

Swweeet man hope everything goes good for you let us know on how your weekend went and how she ran hehe :D









P.S Damn i wish i had my car get going fassst lol

[skalor]

376 WHP and 371 WTQ on 14 psi!! :D

[RIVI72]

That is just awesome 376 whp and 370 wtq and just only 14 psi in a ciera no less congrats man :eek:

[dcjredline]

That thing has some SERIOUS top end from the crappy 60' times. Holy *&#$ :eek: :D

[86euro]

Holy crap! That things got some balls! I'm sure you've surprised more than a few people with that car:)

[nfarnham2001]

Dude, great car. Now I have hopes to keep my car. Any Idea the cost this put you back?

I have a 91 oldsmobile four door cutlass cierra with a 3.3 V6. I would love to do that swap...

What all would I need to do?

(I am also now considering swappin it for an 89 like that, love the two door.

[skalor]

I have about $6500 into the car including the price of the car. Broken down it's $2000 for the car, $2500 for the L67 swap, and $2000 for the turbo setup. I did all the work and fabrication myself, otherwise the cost would probably be even higher.

[nfarnham2001]

2500 That aint bad. I plan on, once I do it, to do it myself, and take the time to learn it, rather than have some one else do it for me. I do have one question though, I dont plan on doing for at least another year or so, but once I do, could I seek your advice on it?

[BignastyGS]

What was the size and part number for your muffler if I may ask? I need to get a new exhaust including the cat,so I thought I would cut the pipe before the cat and use a 3 inch race bullet and a pipe to the muffler instead. I can have a muffler shop adapt the 3 inch to my existing front pipe for now.

[LordDurock]

What was the size and part number for your muffler if I may ask? I need to get a new exhaust including the cat,so I thought I would cut the pipe before the cat and use a 3 inch race bullet and a pipe to the muffler instead. I can have a muffler shop adapt the 3 inch to my existing front pipe for now.

i would be better if you did a full 3inch system or else kinda usless

[BignastyGS]

Agreed,but I want to do the L67 swap in the next year,and I need to get a good exhaust for now so I figured on doing from the cat back for now.

[skalor]

What was the size and part number for your muffler if I may ask? I need to get a new exhaust including the cat,so I thought I would cut the pipe before the cat and use a 3 inch race bullet and a pipe to the muffler instead. I can have a muffler shop adapt the 3 inch to my existing front pipe for now.
The muffler is a Dynomax Ultraflow, part # 17229, which is 19" long. I used an 18" Dynomax Bullet, part # 24219, as a resonator. I really wanted a Magnaflow muffler with was 22" long to make it even quieter but the ship date kept getting pushed back so I changed it to a Dynomax instead. The car was a little loud and raspy when it was still supercharged, but it's nice and quiet now with the turbo.

[skalor]

I forgot to mention that the Turbo L67 Ciera is down because I broke the input shaft on my transmission. It was bound to happen though when you take into consideration that the car is making 450+ HP. :D

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

And the carnage begins LOL

[LordDurock]

lol well its good to know that gm tranys are over built.

[86euro]

Holy crap! I knew you were putting out some power, but I had no idea it was that much:bowdown:

[95CutlassCiera]

would it be worth it to attempt a swap on my ciera? i got my car for free, its a 4 door with a 3100. the biggest problem i see is that im not too firmiliar with working on fwd cars yet

[cutlasscruizerrr]

if you used a non s/c ecm, i'm guessing you had to program it to run the supercharger?

[bubblebob88]

Skalor, you are my God. This was just so amazing and very detailed, I'm looking to save up for the swap and a junk car to get my through while I work on my Cutlass, how long did it take you?

[skalor]

if you used a non s/c ecm, i'm guessing you had to program it to run the supercharger?
The PCM is from a '99 GT and a '99 GTP is actually the same part but with a different operating system. I just reflashed it with a '99 GTP OS.

[skalor]

Skalor, you are my God. This was just so amazing and very detailed, I'm looking to save up for the swap and a junk car to get my through while I work on my Cutlass, how long did it take you?
The initial swap took my probably ~2 months, but I only worked on it a couple hours a night. Kinda hard to remember exactly how long it took because I did it 2 years ago.

[cutlasscruizerrr]

The PCM is from a '99 GT and a '99 GTP is actually the same part but with a different operating system. I just reflashed it with a '99 GTP OS.

did you have to use your hp tuner to do that or did you do something else? i'm illiterate on tuning, any good websites to learn the terms, how to do it, and where to get programs and cables for a pc?

[Zaloryan]

Nothing short of incredible, Skalor. I'd say it surpasses it! Let me ask another question (if you don't mind. :) ) A co-worker of mine has two engines I could get from him. Thing is, I don't know which one is better with more parts flexibility, or swap difficulty, et cetera. Here we go: I could get a 3300 V6 (1989 Ciera) and turbocharge it to replace my current 3.3, or get a 3.8L from an early 90s Pontiac Trans Sport. Either way, I want to turbocharge the engine I get. What's your take?

[Buick_powa]

Hey just a question...

I've noticed on the video you've posted on page 2 or 3 that the tranny have an enormous lag on 1-2 shift.

Do you have the "Performance shift" option activated on your programmation (assuming the PCM come from a 97-03 GTP) This alternate programmation raise fill pressure, shift point and shorten a lot the shift time.

I think that with the setup you're running you might enjoy this little help!

[skalor]

Hey just a question...

I've noticed on the video you've posted on page 2 or 3 that the tranny have an enormous lag on 1-2 shift.

Do you have the "Performance shift" option activated on your programmation (assuming the PCM come from a 97-03 GTP) This alternate programmation raise fill pressure, shift point and shorten a lot the shift time.

I think that with the setup you're running you might enjoy this little help!
I have a shift kit and I have also reduced the commanded shift time tables well below the values of a stock performance shift table.

[CuttyC 3.3]

One thing ive been wondering for a while ,,, when i do my l67 swap do you think that having the shifter on the steering console is going to be an issue?? I believe you have the shifter in the center console like with GTP's right?. Any input on this one ??

[Duke George V]

Transmission doesn't care where the shifter is. You'll just have to route the shift cable a little differently.

[CuttyC 3.3]

awesomez !!! thats what i thought, but i hav no experience with this stuff yet.. Ive just been wondering for a while now :) thx

[skalor]

Yeah, it doesn't matter where the shifter is. Also, you might have to switch out your cluster if you only had a three speed trans so that the gear indicator is correct. IIRC, I used the A-body transmission cable bracket off my stock 4T60. I had to notch out some of the webbing near the where the connector goes on the 4T65 to use this setup.

[Metro666]

Ohhh damn that's one sick Ciera you have right there!! Good props to you and all your work!! Keep it clean!

[skalor]

Just finished putting in a new steering rack and poly transmission mounts. The stock rubber trans mounts did not hold up well to 18 psi. I hope the poly mounts don't cause too much vibration but I'm sure they probably will. Going to dyno on May 16th with a bunch of other guys from a local forum. Shooting for 400+ whp!! I have everything I need for a cam swap, but I just don't feel like pulling it apart. lol

[SilentWing]

Damn.... good luck! Make sure you get a good video of it on the dyno to post here.

[occupant]

That is fantastic. I imagine a 3300-equipped 89-93 Century or Ciera would make this swap easy. What about 3800-equipped Century and Ciera from 1985-1988? And will the 3300/3800 cradles fit fine in a 2.5/2.8/3.1-equipped car? Any welding or cutting required to swap a cradle? I'm looking at a 1988 Century sitting up in town here, guy wants $200, it has a 2.8/OD in it now and it overheats and smokes but not bad enough I can't drive it around town here and to the next town and back (nearest auto parts store). Takes 20 minutes to get the light to come on. Next town is 8 minutes away.

[skalor]

Almost have it back together after rebuilding another trans and putting in a Stattama ST2 cam. It's going on the dyno on Sunday and I'm shooting for at least 425 whp.

[SilentWing]

Glad to hear it's almost back together, let us know for sure how it goes on the dyno, and like I said above if you can get a video that'd be a bonus.

[86euro]

How many trannies has it been through now?

[skalor]

This technically only the second trans, I did replace some parts in the first one and ran it for another 9k miles before it blew for good.

[skalor]

It's alive...again!! It has a noticeable lope to it. Cam specs are 212°, .520" lift and 113° lobe separation.

[Zaloryan]

Post a video, please!

[skalor]

I'll probably video it tomorrow when I take it out for a ride. There are quite a few videos of it on youtube if you search "turbo cutty" or my username "turboL67".

[ActionMatt]

Glad to see it's alive and kickin' lol. How are the axles holding up with that power?

[SilentWing]

Glad to hear everything went smoothly, given the reaction you got last time it was on the dyno and they opened the hood this time should be hilarious as well :)

[skalor]

Glad to see it's alive and kickin' lol. How are the axles holding up with that power?
There are a lot of turbo 3800s that make more power than me and axle problems are rare. If my car still had the stock axles when I got then both outer joints have almost 160k on them. I have replaced the boots because I've had them apart when making the ones for the swap but otherwise they haven't been a problem.

[mechanizeddeath]

Awesome. I've told people about this car when they disrespect my Ciera. :D

[skalor]

Just got back from the dyno, 413 hp at the wheels.

[Duke George V]

Sounds like it's time to get some meaty tires under the front and rip off an eleven! That would be quite the brag, eh?

"Yeah, they kicked me off the track."
"Why?"
" 'Cause my car's too fast. http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/leftventricle/emotes/emot-smug.gif"

[SilentWing]

Sheesh talk about your bragging rights, congrats on hitting over 410 whp, quite a feat to accomplish to say the least.

[86euro]

Just got back from the dyno, 413 hp at the wheels.

That is nuts! That has to be a handful keeping it between the ditches when you punch it. If I'm ever passing through your area, I'm gonna have to bug you for a ride in that thing, lol.

[mechanizeddeath]

Wow! 413???

[CamoDeafie]

hmm whats the formula to finding out its engine power? i mean, assuming 413 at the wheels indicate 20-30% loss through transmission and driveline, how does one calculate to get 100% flywheel power? >.>

HOLY, if 413=70%, then 413/0.70=590 horses! and thats at 30 % loss.......

i aint heard of a trans losing over 40% of power; so 30% is pretty much average....at 20% loss, the power is 516 at the engine; so figuring that between 20-30 percent at the worst, your car is making 500+ hp for sure....it should reach 11s pretty reliably!

[6000 SSEi]

Its a nice amount of power.. But if he wanted to push it you could be throwin down 600 whp. Turbo FTW.

[skalor]

The trans is probably around a 20% loss so it's a little over 500 hp at the crank. I wish I could push if further but I think this turbo is at the end of it's efficiency at 17 psi. I was really hoping for 425 hp but it wasn't in the cards for a 60-1 I guess. The record for a 60-1 is like 470 whp running 22 psi on 110 octane with probably a ton of timing.

[6000 SSEi]

The trans is probably around a 20% loss so it's a little over 500 hp at the crank. I wish I could push if further but I think this turbo is at the end of it's efficiency at 17 psi. I was really hoping for 425 hp but it wasn't in the cards for a 60-1 I guess. The record for a 60-1 is like 470 whp running 22 psi on 110 octane with probably a ton of timing.


What is a 60-1? a T61? Guys are runnin t61 as a normal tubo, with a T67 upgrade. Theres one crazy guy goin for over 600 with a T72. But Theres no need for 110 octane and timing.. This is street form.

[skalor]

Yeah, it's really close to a T61. Basically, it's a 60mm compressor wheel. My friend is selling a T67 but I'm kinda broke at the moment. Besides, I think I might be able to squeeze out a 120 mph trap as it sits.

[skalor]

Video of my car someone posted. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68d_OCSRPUM

[SilentWing]

All I can say is holy shit, looks like it's going to fly off that dyno even with all the safety's lol. That's freggin awesome, I can't possibly say that enough... so what were the reactions this time?

[Tonglebeak]

Yeah who cares if you can push it any further or not lol, just let those ricers roll up next to you...

[SilentWing]

Yeah who cares if you can push it any further or not lol, just let those ricers roll up next to you...

x2 I mean, you've gotta have the fastest Ciera in existance right now I would assume.

[86euro]

Frickin sweet!

[CuttyC 3.3]

Very impressive. ! Definitely top dog as far as a-bodies are concerned! XD

If only there was a larger market ( or any market at all ) for doing these sorts or projects.. instead of having to design and hand fabricate most of the parts to make it possible, for those of us who arent complete wizards . ^^

[skalor]

A different dyno run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5NMPUP8798

Little bit of tire spin in the beginning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSIg8Fs6sbE

[6000 SSEi]

Very impressive. ! Definitely top dog as far as a-bodies are concerned! XD

If only there was a larger market ( or any market at all ) for doing these sorts or projects.. instead of having to design and hand fabricate most of the parts to make it possible, for those of us who arent complete wizards . ^^



It isnt toooo bad. SPACE was however really tight in some places. Especially trying to do exhaust at the back of the engine. Id love headers but they wont fit unless I start hacking apart the firewall.. NOT gonna happen.

[SilentWing]

wow and I thought the needle moved fast on the previous video of the speedo. Glad to see your mods paid off, good luck keeping any traction whatsoever when you put her on a diet... yikes lol. Now I also realize my rally cluster is faded

[mechanizeddeath]

So cool. Inspiration for us all! :D

[6000 SSEi]

The power of a BOOSTED 3800 is will bring a smile to anyone's face.. haha. The more boost, the bigger the smile. Ive thought about turbo a lot but just don't wanna drop the $ or time.

[Doc Salvage]

I forgot to mention that the Turbo L67 Ciera is down because I broke the input shaft on my transmission. It was bound to happen though when you take into consideration that the car is making 450+ HP. :D

GAH! Sorry to hear about the tranny--only a temporary setback considering your experience and skills with this bad puppy! Thanks for posting!

[skalor]

GAH! Sorry to hear about the tranny--only a temporary setback considering your experience and skills with this bad puppy! Thanks for posting!
That's was nearly 3 years ago. lol

[TonyBuick]

Haha Well I think I finally gave up on the idea of a boosted LG7... for now! Where can I get the motor and tranny with ecu and harness thats not from a junkyard or the dealer? Ive been able to get the 3300 out in about half a day so once thats all in about how long do you estimate the swap as far as start to finish? From what youve posted it looks like the wiring will be the time consumer. Did you just re-pin the ecu?

[Duke George V]

http://stores.ebay.com/Morad-Parts-Company

[SilentWing]

ooo a 3800 series II supercharged engine with a 4t65e HD trans for $1,500 is in that list.... darn joblessness.

[TonyBuick]

Hell yea thanks Duke! Yea Im def going that route. Skalor you say that in 99 they change the trans boses so it wont fit the rear trans mount. So in theory the 96-98 L67 should have them? Those pics of your wiring mess looks like hell in a handbasket. Crazy you were able to sort that out. Youll have to help me out with that when the time comes.

[6000 SSEi]

You can always modify your engine cradle. Mines been changed a bit. I used the entire 2002 drive train from an H body.

[Duke George V]

You can always modify your engine cradle. Mines been changed a bit. I used the entire 2002 drive train from an H body.I remember you saying it was a pain in the ass to use the H-body version because of the oil pan? It's aluminum instead of iron and shaped differently?

[TonyBuick]

Skalor Whats up with your intake manifold. is there no way to use a normal manifold for the setup?

[6000 SSEi]

I remember you saying it was a pain in the ass to use the H-body version because of the oil pan? It's aluminum instead of iron and shaped differently?

Ya its CLOSE and if your engine moves at all it will probably hit. But mines mounted everywhere. 2 trans mounts, a poly dogbone on the tranny housing passenger side, H body style engine mount on car frame and two poly upper dogbones.

It is handy because you can set the engine right on the floor on the oil pan without issue and maybe itll even cool the oil better? Worse case you could always swap it out.

[skalor]

Hell yea thanks Duke! Yea Im def going that route. Skalor you say that in 99 they change the trans boses so it wont fit the rear trans mount. So in theory the 96-98 L67 should have them? Those pics of your wiring mess looks like hell in a handbasket. Crazy you were able to sort that out. Youll have to help me out with that when the time comes.
I'd shoot for getting a '97-'98 trans if you can then it's a complete bolt in with stock A-body mounts. Anything before '97 is going to be a 4T60E and not a 4T65E. The wiring sucks and is by far the worst part of the swap.


Skalor Whats up with your intake manifold. is there no way to use a normal manifold for the setup?
I wanted the throttlebody on the passenger side. I was all set to make my own, which would have looked similar but this one came up for sale. Lots of guys have a turbo setup with the throttlebody on the driver's side, you can use a L36, L26, or gutted supercharger housing.

[TonyBuick]

yea i knew the regal guys use the L26. I just didnt know if there were turbo or intercooler piping clearance issues and thats why you used that setup. so if I left the supercharger on would it still be good with the turbo simultaneously?

[skalor]

Sure, you can leave the supercharger on and do a twincharged setup but I think it's overcomplicated and a waste of effort. The only twincharged setups that make any power have two intercoolers. One after the turbo and then another after the supercharger, which has to be air-to-water, bleh. They also don't make anymore power than the turbo couldn't make by itself. That reminds me, I wonder what that twincharged Century GS ever put down.

[TonyBuick]

yea it makes sense. atleast with the supercharger tho itll give me some power before the turbo spools. I got turned to this website by a buddy with a turbocharged L67 Regal. its www.zzperformance.com you can get some good performance parts for the l67 abongst other motors. Im thinking of getting the XP Hot Cam and basically fully build the top end. from what I take the bottom end really doesnt need to be tampered with so Ill just leave it alone. THen I was thinking of a highstall converter. Im not sure which number would be best between 2500, 2750, 3000, or 3250. Theres others from this website that go up to 4000. What kinda trans upgrades have you done skalor? I know you like to break input shafts. Are there special hardened inputshafts that youve switched to? Im just trying to get all my cost numbers together so i can see if i could take out a small loan and get this project finished

[skalor]

Just in trans parts I have a ZZP 4340 input shaft, 7/8" 2.93 ratio chain set, hardened 4th hub, Chrome moly pump shaft, and a ZZP 3000 stall converter. I also have a ZZP ST2 cam and assorted valvetrain parts from them as well. They also sell turbo kit parts so maybe just pick up a crossover pipe and then build your own downpipe. Or just stalk the for sale section of ClubGP as turbo parts come up for sale once in a while. I think a W-body crossover will work in an A-body but I couldn't tell you for sure. If you go twincharged don't get a high stall converter or else it's pointless to even have the supercharger. On my setup I could get a stock L67 converter to stall to 3000 rpm, and I could make 10 psi sitting still on the brakes. The only reason I bought a ZZP converter is because they are furnace brazed so I can brake boost and not balloon the converter.

[TonyBuick]

right on thanks dude. so there is this 99 grand prix getting parted out that i got hooked up with. the only problem is that the guy wants to keep the motor for a sand rail. He said that if i help him pull everything i can get the tranny for just about free. So ill most likely do that. itll save me a ton of money in the long run. Maybe i can convince him to use my spare LG7 and trade me his L67 ; ) haha as common as LG7 swaps in those things are who would trade a 3800 sc for a n/a LG7. anyway ill be needing to fab up that rear trans bracket adapter like you have. Do you have the measurements so I can make my own or maybe would you be willing to make one for me for some cash? I dont have access to a decent torch or anything to do it myself

[turbokinetic]

... That reminds me, I wonder what that twincharged Century GS ever put down.

Yes I wonder the same! I'm with you on the twincharged setups. I think it's overcomplicated and the heating issues outweigh the benefits. But I really want to see Max Uecker's Turbo-SuperGS make a few dyno pulls!

Reminds me - I've been tuning my Olympia some and need to get it on the dyno again!

Later,
David

[occupant]

Looks like Morad has a 214K mile 3800SC with 4T65E-HD transmission for $799 now.

I hope they'll have another similar deal when I'm looking to do something like that.

[TonyBuick]

Nice I might actually scoop that up and use the cash I woulda spent on the 115k mile motor they had for $1599 to freshen up the motor.

[occupant]

That would give you a few hundred to spend on a good shift kit, head gaskets, supercharger oil change, water pump, things like that.

[TonyBuick]

What kind of fuel pump and injectors are you running Skaylor?

[skalor]

Walbro 255 and Siemens 60 lb injectors

[chevycelebrity]

i got a poll for everyone. I have an 88 celebrity eurosport has the 2.5 liter i am going to be pulling it cuz im swapping out the auto trans for a 5 speed and since it will be already out i want to build an engine to put back in. Okay so should i keep the 2.5 it only has 91000 miles on it but hard to find forged internals and stuff to make a real power engine out of it or should i find me a 2.2 LN2 a build it either way im looking for near 300 hp and no v6 or v8 swaps cuz i want to be different. PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR INFO GOOD BAD AND THE UGLY

[skalor]

i got a poll for everyone. I have an 88 celebrity eurosport has the 2.5 liter i am going to be pulling it cuz im swapping out the auto trans for a 5 speed and since it will be already out i want to build an engine to put back in. Okay so should i keep the 2.5 it only has 91000 miles on it but hard to find forged internals and stuff to make a real power engine out of it or should i find me a 2.2 LN2 a build it either way im looking for near 300 hp and no v6 or v8 swaps cuz i want to be different. PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR INFO GOOD BAD AND THE UGLY
Here's some info for you, start your own topic. lol

[CuttyC 3.3]

here's some info for you, start your own topic. Lol


pwned !!!! ;d

[chevycelebrity]

did but everyone stays on the same old thing all day

[skalor]

Just bought a 23k mile 4T80. This car is hitting 10s this year.

[occupant]

Now that sounds exciting.

450hp through a solid slushbox with front drive.

I am curious, how do you deal with the torque steer? I had a turbocharged '87 New Yorker in high school. That only had 146hp and I couldn't keep it straight above 2/3 throttle, even after I replaced the tires. You've got 3x that kind of power.

[Duke George V]

A limited slip differential helps mitigate the torque steer somewhat, or so I hear.

[6000 SSEi]

Im gonna hold you to that! Good luck.. ;)

[TonyBuick]

10seconds damn if i had the time off work id drive up there to see u do that down the track. You better put a vid of you running 10s up so we all can see!

[mechanizeddeath]

I don't think the torque steer is all that bad on our cars, but then again mine is totally stock so things might be different for skalor. ;) But compared to some other FWD cars I've owned and driven, my Ciera. The worst I can remember driving was a Ford Probe... It' was almost like only one wheel was attached to the transmission. The worst I owned personally was my Mercury Sable LS with the 3.8, I had to be so careful when pulling out into traffic.

Random car-unrelated question for you skalor: your name doesn't happen to relate to ska music by any chance, does it? :D

[CuttyC 3.3]

Just bought a 23k mile 4T80. This car is hitting 10s this year.

I totally believe that you will! cant wait.. :D

Will the 4T80 slap right in there ???? whats the benefits of going that route, better gears and programmability ??

[skalor]

Now that sounds exciting.

450hp through a solid slushbox with front drive.

I am curious, how do you deal with the torque steer? I had a turbocharged '87 New Yorker in high school. That only had 146hp and I couldn't keep it straight above 2/3 throttle, even after I replaced the tires. You've got 3x that kind of power.
Torque steer is not bad at all. It's only really an issue when I have the wheels turned a pretty significant amount. Watch me one hand the wheel in the video below. It pulls around a little but you have to remember that the tires are spinning. Torque steer is mostly likely cause by one wheel spinning while the other is not. A limited slip would help in a car that has bad torque steer but my car doesn't and the only limited slip worth using in a 4T65 is a GMR diff but they go for $1500+.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xp45BKAU8E

[skalor]

Random car-unrelated question for you skalor: your name doesn't happen to relate to ska music by any chance, does it? :D
Yeah, I started using this handle when I was in high school(graduated in '98) and it just seemed to stick. Just saw Less than Jake last week, the first time I saw them was in '97. Man, I'm getting old.

[mechanizeddeath]

Yeah, I started using this handle when I was in high school(graduated in '98) and it just seemed to stick. Just saw Less than Jake last week, the first time I saw them was in '97. Man, I'm getting old.

heh, tell me about it! Graduated in '97 myself and today is my 32nd birthday. And would you believe it, LTJ is actually playing downtown tonight! I was going to go, since it's my birthday and all, but can't find anyone to go with me. All my friends are either too busy, moved onto other genres, or never liked the music to begin with.

I'm fortunate enough to live in the Grand Rapids area which still has an active ska scene, what with Mustard Plug being from here. Most tours make at least one stop here, so that's always nice.

First time I saw Less Than Jake live was just after the release of Hello Rockview in '98. Inspired by one of the tracks on the CD, I brought along a guy I'd just met who was a total metalhead. ;) Just before the show started, the air conditioning system broke down. Michigan isn't a hot state, but can be very humid, and within 30 minutes it was over 90 degrees in that building and the humidity was out of control. It was raining indoors from condensation dripping off the sprinkler pipes in the open ceiling. A couple local bands quit and wouldn't play due to the humidity. Thankfully LTJ is a Florida band and wouldn't let a bit of humidity slow them down. Even so, they never forgot it, and bring it up every time they're in this city. And the metalhead? He loved it, and we're still friends to this day.

I could go on for a while, but don't want to clutter up your thread with a bunch of OT rambling about music. Fun to learn that such a fast A-body is owned by someone who shares my musical taste though!

[TonyBuick]

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/133/l_316ea9f8cd49412da1ca9c02b09532bb.jpg
Just came in this past week. Came out of a 99 RiV

[6000 SSEi]

Let the headache begin!

[turbokinetic]

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/133/l_316ea9f8cd49412da1ca9c02b09532bb.jpg
Just came in this past week. Came out of a 99 RiV

Oh yes!

[Jr's3800]

Thats going to be Fun.... Keep in mind 300 Hp is easy... 400 takes some work....lol

[CamoDeafie]

Thats going to be Fun.... Keep in mind 300 Hp is easy... 400 takes some work....lol

400 is rather easy. take SC off and put T4 turbo on and boost to 35PSI. now...400 and keeping it together for more than a 1/4 mile is a different animal ;) lol.

[skalor]

400 is rather easy. take SC off and put T4 turbo on and boost to 35PSI. now...400 and keeping it together for more than a 1/4 mile is a different animal ;) lol.
Anyone that can't keep an L67 together at 400 whp has no idea how to tune. The trans is another story though. lol

[skalor]

On another note, I just bought a T67 to replace the 60-1. 500 whp here I come!!

[CamoDeafie]

Anyone that can't keep an L67 together at 400 whp has no idea how to tune. The trans is another story though. lol

lol point. I know its not the sheer boost, but its the detonation that kills engines.....and poor trans. regardless of which trans...lol

[skalor]

lol point. I know its not the sheer boost, but its the detonation that kills engines.....and poor trans. regardless of which trans...lol
Exactly, there are stock L67s that chip pistons from detonation. Keep it knock free and the pistons stay happy no matter how much power your making.

[TonyBuick]

thats fiiine. Mines getting a total rebuild. Im gonna run the Sc for awhile. I just wanna get it built and in the car. 300+ is way better than the 160 or whatever my LG7 has been diminished to. So fat I have the engine, trans, ecu, both inner axle joints, and engine wiring. They didnt send the trans harness just the connectors snipped at the trans and no harness to the ecu either. I dont see why they wouldnt sent it with it. I even talked to the shop foreman at Morad and told him it wasnt going into a W car. Hopefully now that im back wrenching at GM ill come across something

[TonyBuick]

Hey does anyone have a manual steering column and shiFt linkage to convert to floor shift with my L67 Swap?

[Unistarlx]

I know it's been awhile since this forums was started, but is there anywhere else the build pictures can be seen?

[Zaloryan]

I know it's been awhile since this forums was started, but is there anywhere else the build pictures can be seen?

x2! Skalor, I'd like to see your intercooler setup!

[BignastyGS]

I knew I should have downloaded them...I was bummed last week to see the pics gone..

[liuliping10]

It has a noticeable lope to it



Moderators note : Spam is not allowed in any form on this board. You have been warned..

[Green Durant]

Finally someone listened lol awesome project this has really inspired me to do mine now

[TonyBuick]

Im slowly building my transmission for this swap. I want to get that out of the way first since I can do that at my dealership I wrench at. Debating what gear ratio to go with when I switch to a single chain. ZZP offers a 3.29 or 3.69. The whole goal of my build is to see how much power I can push out of it and see how low I can get my quarter times.

[turbokinetic]

Tony, I couldn't find the chains on ZZP site. As far as I know they come in 3 varieties. 37-33; 35-35; and the very rare 33-37.

My Century with 3.8SFI Turbo engine has a 3.29 final drive and 37-33 chain. That gives an effective ratio in 3rd gear of 2.93. With this, the car can break loose the tires at 60 MPH when floored. Because of this, I don't see what advantage would be gained by a lower gear.

With 3.29 final drive the 3 chains will give these ratios:

Chain - result
37-33 - 2.93
35-35 - 3.29
35-37 - 3.69

I used a new replacement chain and sprocket set for a 440T4 with 37-33 sprockets. I had a local machine shop modify the sprockets for the 4T65E. There is some simple machining needed to adapt them. It cost very little to have it done.

Remember that the chain drive is causing torque multiplication / or speed multiplication BEFORE the transmission clutches and final drive. The numerically higher the chain ratio is, the more stress it puts on the transmission. In my build, the engine pushes the transmission to its absolute limit, and I have had one failure already, with the 37-33 chain. The transmission won't tolerate as much input torque with the 35-35 or 33-37 chains.

In my opinion - if you are going with a big HP intercooled engine, you are would be WAY over-geared at 3.69. Car would be traction - limited and subject to more breakage of parts.

That's my opinion and I am interested to see others, too.

Later,
David

[Buick_powa]

Gear ratio conversion kit (http://zzperformance.com/grand_prix/products1.php?id=360&catid=105)

[TonyBuick]

yea thats it. This build is gonna take awhile since I'm going all out. Wiring everything and getting it running in the car is stressing me out. Im good with wiring but the GM technician website doesnt have schematics for this

[skalor]

This car isn't dead yet. Just finished modifying the sub-frame today. Going to paint it tomorrow and then it can finally start to go back together. Here's a gallery with pictures from the initial swap as well as the turbo conversion and 4T80 swap.

http://www.skalor.net/gallery/index.php/Oldsmopile

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Looking good as always brother...

[turbokinetic]

This car isn't dead yet...

The Turbo Cutty will never die.

Period.

It will only grow stronger with the passage of time.

:)

[skalor]

The Turbo Cutty will never die.

Period.

It will only grow stronger with the passage of time.

:)

This is it's last chance. After the trans breaks, it's getting a demod back to supercharged.

[TonyBuick]

looks good. I cant wait to get mine up and running

[skalor]

Started working on it again a little. 4T80 converter bolted to L67 flexplate.

http://www.skalor.net/gallery/var/albums/Oldsmopile/4T80-Swap-/4T80%20converter%20to%20L67%20flexplate.jpg?m=1322 896220

[Jr's3800]

Just curious as to what the stall speed is on that Converter...

[skalor]

Not sure really. I don't want to pay for a custom converter when I don't know how the stock one stalls. I think they are in the mid to low 2,000 rpm range stock so it may be perfect. I loved my stock L67 converter and the ZZP 3000 stall was to loose for my taste.

[Duke George V]

Is it 2095?

[Jr's3800]

2095 may be right...

whats the letters or part number on the torque converter?

All of the SC 3800's came from the factory with an 1897 stall, but the more power you make the higher it will stall... we could in a lot of cases stall that very converter 2100-2300... Later GM would call this the K factor...

I never liked the idea of a 3000 stall in a daily driver.. Only time I would have that is if the car was used for racing most of the time.. Other than that maybe a 2500 stall...

Again most of the larger GM cars with the SC engine or NA 3800 with the performance gear ratio got the 1897 stall converter... The fuel economy gears came with a 1420 stall..

[skalor]

I could stall my stock L67 converter to ~2900 which was necessary with the 60-1 since it was lazy to spool. The T67 I'm running now is a lot more responsive and as long as I can get it to ~2600 I'll be happy. The 4T80 converter code is 2420 4000 which is a woven clutch converter, and not one of the VCC converters. The trans is out of an '07 DTS.

[Duke George V]

What's the final drive? Wiki says there are three: 3.11, 3.48 and 3.71. Seems like, with the power you're making, even 3.48 is a bit much, and 3.71 would just be tire fire city.

[skalor]

It has the 3.11 FDR. Shooting for 500 whp this time around.

[Duke George V]

What is the difference between the two turbos you've used? I have next to no knowledge about them. You got a new one that boosts sooner, but is larger? I was under the impression that a "bigger" turbo, that is, one that pushes more air for a given pressure than others, takes longer to spool.

[skalor]

What is the difference between the two turbos you've used? I have next to no knowledge about them. You got a new one that boosts sooner, but is larger? I was under the impression that a "bigger" turbo, that is, one that pushes more air for a given pressure than others, takes longer to spool.
The turbine side is completely identical between the two turbos(.68 A/R and a P-trim wheel). The difference is only on the compressor side, the T67 runs a larger wheel in a slightly smaller housing compared to the 60-1. Plus the T67 is a more efficient wheel.

[93CUTLASS]

well now thats intresting do you have a full engine shot? also what supporting mods do you have to the suspension?

HOLY FUCK!

[Jr's3800]

skalor, my only question is how are you going to hold all that power to the ground?

Also I like the idea of having 3.11's.... You have so much grunt and are and will make enough power to vaporize tires... In a lot of cases I think some of the ratios people go to like the 3.69'd is overkill on a 3800... 3.29 is ok.... But with the ability of the Turbo or the SC to make the power, I think more conservative like the 3.11 gears is not a bad thing... even an NA 3800 can hurt the tires on a 3.06 ratio... Would hate to see what 450-500 HP could do....LMAO...

[Duke George V]

I'm definitely able to light them up with my 3.06 gearing if I stomp it, and that's with 170 hp and 225 ft-lbs!

[DarkFox]

I don't want to make it out like my Century's 160hp/~180ftlb LG7 is anything too special in a thread featuring 300whp+ L67s. .

. . But even I get a real good amount chirp-age on dry pavement when I punch it from a standstill. More so if going up hill.

Not sure what gear ratio my Century runs, though. TH-125 if that'll help anyone determine for me.

All I know is that it's enough to push me back in the seat and put 'that grin' on my face, I'm sure you all know that feel.

:)

[Jr's3800]

I'm definitely able to light them up with my 3.06 gearing if I stomp it, and that's with 170 hp and 225 ft-lbs!

Yes the L27 makes a lot of low end grunt.... GM also never changed the numbers even tho they made changes to the engine..lol

[skalor]

skalor, my only question is how are you going to hold all that power to the ground?

Also I like the idea of having 3.11's.... You have so much grunt and are and will make enough power to vaporize tires... In a lot of cases I think some of the ratios people go to like the 3.69'd is overkill on a 3800... 3.29 is ok.... But with the ability of the Turbo or the SC to make the power, I think more conservative like the 3.11 gears is not a bad thing... even an NA 3800 can hurt the tires on a 3.06 ratio... Would hate to see what 450-500 HP could do....LMAO...
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/251687_1733995825155_1096336395_31369807_3748333_n .jpg

My normal street tires don't stand a chance. At 413 whp it would spin until about 80 mph, even when I punch it at 60 mph. I'm going to run two boost levels so that it at least doesn't destroy the tires right away. My last set only lasted ~5,000 miles and they were completely bald. lol

[Jr's3800]

So you are going to limit boost... Is it going to be via gear or speed or another option?

[skalor]

I'm going to run a solenoid to switch boost from external wastegate pressure(~11 psi) to manual boost controller pressure(~18 psi, maybe more). It will just be via a switch on my center console.

[turbokinetic]

I'm going to run a solenoid to switch boost from external wastegate pressure(~11 psi) to manual boost controller pressure(~18 psi, maybe more). It will just be via a switch on my center console.

Josh, I know you're running OBDII and metered-air so this doesn't directly apply - but... Code59 has a road-speed controlled boost solenoid output that is really nice. That's how I have saved my transmission. It doesn't ramp up the boost until I'm moving an an appreciable speed.

I don't know what would be possible to add to your ECM code to make this happen, but it's worth looking into.

Sincerely,
David

[skalor]

Josh, I know you're running OBDII and metered-air so this doesn't directly apply - but... Code59 has a road-speed controlled boost solenoid output that is really nice. That's how I have saved my transmission. It doesn't ramp up the boost until I'm moving an an appreciable speed.

I don't know what would be possible to add to your ECM code to make this happen, but it's worth looking into.

Sincerely,
David
Not really anything I can do with the PCM. I was looking into trying to do something with the factory output for the boost control solenoid but I don't want to mess with it.

[skalor]

That poor harbor freight engine hoist is holding a lot of weight, approximately 750+ lbs. And yes that is a proton pack in the background. lol

http://www.skalor.net/gallery/var/resizes/Oldsmopile/4T80-Swap-/IMG_20120106_133033.jpg?m=1325881341

In it's new home, which is a better fit than I thought it would be.

http://www.skalor.net/gallery/var/resizes/Oldsmopile/4T80-Swap-/IMG_20120106_151732.jpg?m=1325881406

[mickstan_VR]

You rule. Who do I make the check to?

[skalor]

Bye Bye Iron 3300 A/C compressor bracket and hello aluminum 3800 compressor bracket. Little bit of weight savings here.
http://www.skalor.net/gallery/var/resizes/Oldsmopile/4T80-Swap-/IMG_20120115_181156.jpg?m=1326669292

Top two are 4T80 axles, they are the same. The third one down is the homebrew 4T65 A-body driver's side axle and the last one is a homebrew passenger side axle. May not have to modify the 4T80 axles.
http://www.skalor.net/gallery/var/resizes/Oldsmopile/4T80-Swap-/IMG_20120115_181513.jpg?m=1326669397

[turbokinetic]

Looking great!

You keeping the outer housing of the outer CV joint for the splines? I had to do that to make my 4T65EHD a-body axles.

I'm watching with great interest because I am probably facing this on my Century GS build.

[skalor]

No, I still run the smaller non-ABS wheel bearings so I'll be switching to ABS wheel bearings which are the same as the 4T80 outer spline. Checked it today at the yard and the 4T80 axles slid right in, unfortunately I didn't have the right torx bit so I couldn't get the wheel bearings.

[turbokinetic]

Ok, that makes sense!

How are you going to address the inverted shift "b" signal on the 4T80E?

[skalor]

Normally closed solid state relay.

[turbokinetic]

Normally closed solid state relay.

Yep, that's how I'm running a 4T65E on a 4L80E controller, too.

[SCREECH]

I'll be switching to ABS wheel bearings which are the same as the 4T80 outer spline. Checked it today at the yard and the 4T80 axles slid right in, unfortunately I didn't have the right torx bit so I couldn't get the wheel bearings.
Just a suggestion - you might want to consider just grabbing some inexpensive NEW front bearings from eBay. I say this because I haven't seen a used ABS bearing come out in one piece yet - the rear cap always comes off when I try to remove it from the knuckle, exposing the normally-sealed bearing, likely shortening it's lifespan, unless you're able to get it properly sealed back up. RockAuto has a company that supplies bearings in the $30-something range.

I have ABS bearings on all four corners of my Ciera as I'm installing the Delco-Moraine ABS VI onto the car, but I just installed the whole strut/knuckle/bearing assembly from a '92 U-van, hence I didn't have to swap the bearings. The rears were from a '00 Montana, btw. And yes, I will eventually be upgrading it to '94-'96 U-van front brakes when I part up my smashed '92 van. It got '95 brakes which freed up the original '92 brakes to go onto the Ciera. :)

[skalor]

Just a suggestion - you might want to consider just grabbing some inexpensive NEW front bearings from eBay. I say this because I haven't seen a used ABS bearing come out in one piece yet - the rear cap always comes off when I try to remove it from the knuckle, exposing the normally-sealed bearing, likely shortening it's lifespan, unless you're able to get it properly sealed back up. RockAuto has a company that supplies bearings in the $30-something range.

I have ABS bearings on all four corners of my Ciera as I'm installing the Delco-Moraine ABS VI onto the car, but I just installed the whole strut/knuckle/bearing assembly from a '92 U-van, hence I didn't have to swap the bearings. The rears were from a '00 Montana, btw. And yes, I will eventually be upgrading it to '94-'96 U-van front brakes when I part up my smashed '92 van. It got '95 brakes which freed up the original '92 brakes to go onto the Ciera. :)
I'll have to see the next time I go. I'd rather have used GM wheel bearings than new chinese ones, but I'll definitely look into it if they don't come apart in one piece. My Ciera is still on stock brakes, and although I want bigger brakes my slicks are 15" so I don't know if they'll clear the U-van calipers.

[junkyarddog91]

:rock:
Just a suggestion - you might want to consider just grabbing some inexpensive NEW front bearings from eBay. I say this because I haven't seen a used ABS bearing come out in one piece yet - the rear cap always comes off when I try to remove it from the knuckle, exposing the normally-sealed bearing, likely shortening it's lifespan, unless you're able to get it properly sealed back up. RockAuto has a company that supplies bearings in the $30-something range.

I have ABS bearings on all four corners of my Ciera as I'm installing the Delco-Moraine ABS VI onto the car, but I just installed the whole strut/knuckle/bearing assembly from a '92 U-van, hence I didn't have to swap the bearings. The rears were from a '00 Montana, btw. And yes, I will eventually be upgrading it to '94-'96 U-van front brakes when I part up my smashed '92 van. It got '95 brakes which freed up the original '92 brakes to go onto the Ciera. :)


good to see your 92 van will live on as a parts donor for some of your other rigs screech:thumbsup:

[SCREECH]

I'd rather have used GM wheel bearings than new chinese ones, but I'll definitely look into it if they don't come apart in one piece.
There's 2 that RockAuto has, one at $40 and one at $41. The one is called ValuePro, and the other GMB. I don't know those brands, so they very well could be offshore, though they do carry a 12-month warranty. HOWEVER, step up to Raybestos Professional with a 3-year warranty and they're $68ea.


...my slicks are 15" so I don't know if they'll clear the U-van calipers.
U-vans came with 15" wheels. You'll be fine.

[TonyBuick]

Sorry ive been gone so long guys i started a side project. Small block 87 Rx-7. Still slowly building my century tho. hey if you are worried about code issues you can get a flashed zzp ecu.

[skalor]

Sorry ive been gone so long guys i started a side project. Small block 87 Rx-7. Still slowly building my century tho. hey if you are worried about code issues you can get a flashed zzp ecu.
You should just dump the small block and get a 5.3 or 4.8 and turbo it. I'm looking for a Volvo 142 to put a turbo 4.8 into. I tune GM stuff on the side and those little 4.8s hold up to a lot of abuse.

[92buick_century]

the 4.8's sound pretty nice too

[92buick_century]

and the 5.3 is an awesome engine

[skalor]

Yeah, we get them from a U-Pull it yard for $84.

[92buick_century]

the 4.8 or 5.3?

[skalor]

Both. They have special one a month, any engine for $84.

[92buick_century]

with the computer and wiring harness too? or just the engine

[TonyBuick]

Gave up on the 7 more trouble than i wanted to put into it. Calculated my total to get the crate motor and everything i wandt for my series 2 swap is. Gonna be about $7500 still gonna need axles shipping costs mounts wiring. Floor shift steering column so with the cost of the trans rebuild im looking at close to 11grand.

[skalor]

I think I have like $8,000 into mine now, including all the turbo crap and 4T80. That's not counting car cost which was $2100. Screw getting a crate engine, pull one from a car in a rear end collision. Lots of smacked up Buicks thanks to old people.

[skalor]

An effort to control underhood heat. I've noticed steam coming off the hood numerous times in the rain before. lol

http://www.skalor.net/gallery/var/resizes/Oldsmopile/4T80-Swap-/IMG_20120311_172619.jpg?m=1331501936

[Zaloryan]

Is that DEI wrapping?

[Duke George V]

Is that DEI wrapping?
?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/leftventricle/dei.jpg

[skalor]

Is that DEI wrapping?
It's Thermo-tec IIRC.

[TonyBuick]

Mr Skalor do u still have those mounts for the swap? Also what did u do for all the electrical stuff? I have the engine harness and ec but not the harness that plugs into the ecu or the tranny tho i have the pigtail connectors for the trans. I know im gonna need a junction block aswell. Im very interested in the electrical portion of this swap since it will be the most time consuming.

[Zaloryan]

?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/leftventricle/dei.jpg

:thumbsup: Very funny.

Design Engineering Inc.

[Century7667]

:thumbsup: Very funny.

Design Engineering Inc.

...and I thought that was EGR!

[CuttyC 3.3]

?
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/leftventricle/dei.jpg



This is a very " GREEN " sustainable version of the combustion engine, and had the Obama seal of approval ... That is as long as the fuel source is puppy dogs breath !!!

[Century7667]

The scary part is, they might be actually dreaming up something like that!

[skalor]

Mr Skalor do u still have those mounts for the swap? Also what did u do for all the electrical stuff? I have the engine harness and ec but not the harness that plugs into the ecu or the tranny tho i have the pigtail connectors for the trans. I know im gonna need a junction block aswell. Im very interested in the electrical portion of this swap since it will be the most time consuming.
Yeah, I still have the mounts. I have axles too if you don't want to mess around making your own. As far as wiring, just get a whole harness from a yard. There's more than enough work just mending the two together(starter, charging, gauges). It's been almost 6 years since I did the wiring so I don't remember half of what I even did. lol

[Undead Fred]

Hey, I'm thinking of swapping a series II L67 into a Chevy Celebrity wagon, I've been told that I'll need the subframe from a Buick Century with the 3.3L and a 4T60 transmission. But I've notices that Oldsmobiles from similar years had the LN3 3.8. Would I just be able to use the subframe from those cars? Or are there multiple cars that I could use? Or would I even need another subframe?

[TonyBuick]

Yes skalor i would love to purchase those mounts and axles! Hows your beast doin? Havent seen anything new on youtube.