dogbone pics/question

[ochy38]

ok so i noticed a couple days ago the dogbone (forgot technical term) had rotten rubber bushings in it. so i got a good one out of a ciera at the local u-pull-it and im about to install it and noticed something.. the engine isnt really lined up with it. nothing serious, but like a half a centimeter to a centimeter it is misaligned. do you think this poses a problem?





The engine moves alot, which is the reason i def wanna replace this. just want some opinions on the whole alignement thing

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

I would be willing to bet the lower engine mount, under the harmonic balancer, is bad.

[ochy38]

yea i was willing to bet the same thing. i dont really have a means of changing it now, will any problems arise if i keep driving the car this way?

also changed the dogbone, my car drives SOO much better now. the engine was clunking and i was starting to think the transmission was going because it was shifting so hard. now its MUCH better. heres some pics of what i took off




you can see it is just completely mutilated

[mickstan_VR]

There are several motor and transmission mounts under there. Most if not all of them will probably need to be replaced. They don't seem to last too long. A new dogbone mount will not last long if they are not all in good condition. I don't know how much they cost, but a new dogbone is only 10 bucks from autozone. Thats one of my winter projects is to replace all of them. The factory manual is not too helpful on the procedure either. It pretty much says raise the engine, unbolt the mount and remove, then replace it, thighten the bolts and lower the engine. well duh. I kinda figured that out already. Surely its not that simple. I'll be sure to take photos of the process when I get around to doing it but it probably won't be for awhile.

[ochy38]

eeek i really dont wanna replace those. other that the dogbone not lastin long... is it gonna ruin anything or hurt the car to not change the mounts?

[dcjredline]

Ummmm yeah. It will put more wear on your drive train being miss aligned.

[Tuddi]

The driveshaft on the bad side will break... did so on mine a week into my ownership. The motormount on the driver's side was totally torn apart, the rubber more like broken concrete than anything else.

If the mounts are bad... change them.

Mine under the harmonic balancer is probably non-existing... I am even afraid to take a picture of the dogbone alignment and show you.... it horrifies me to have a look at it...

[LordDurock]

how much play does that mount have?

[Tuddi]

I was checking on a motormount for my car (through rockauto.com ). The following picture is supposedly the right side engine mount... would that translate into "the passenger side" ?



If it is, I'm going to get it. Less than 8 dollars + freight should be better than breaking everything again.

Ok... here a picture of how things look for me



A bit off the right course... wouldn't you think? :eek:

[mickstan_VR]

Yeah, thats not good! The service manual says to replace them when bad as they will wear other driveline components. And as far as I know, when talking about the engine and drivetrain, left or right side is determined by standing in front of the car and looking at the motor. So I guess right side would be the drivers side. ? I think thats how it is.

[Tuddi]

You make it sound like politics... where some claim there to be no left or right.

I emailed a request to rockauto.com, asking them to clear this up. I have never seen the mount under the Harmonic Balancer... so I simply haven't got a clue... The other motormount is clearly visible, and looks different from the one in the picture... but it was bought here in Peru... and could just be made for a different car, but which coincidentally fitted.

[LordDurock]

I was checking on a motormount for my car (through rockauto.com ). The following picture is supposedly the right side engine mount... would that translate into "the passenger side" ?



If it is, I'm going to get it. Less than 8 dollars + freight should be better than breaking everything again.

Ok... here a picture of how things look for me



A bit off the right course... wouldn't you think? :eek:


that looks the mount for the 4.3.....

yea get the changed

[mickstan_VR]

Politics....call me a conservative liberal. Or call me a liberal conservative. Just don't call me. I'll call you!

[88 Coupe]

Left = Driver, Right = Passenger

That mount looks the same as the one used on the right side of my Celeb with the 2.5L. They are probably fairly generic, just cross reference the part number... I believe partsamerica.com has a link to a list of other vehicles each particular part fits.

[Tuddi]

Wow... they have a functioning customer service... and it seems like it's not been outsourced to India :)

Here is the answer I received:


Thank you for your interest in our products. We actually have a catalog error
for the motor mounts of the 1985-89 model Chevrolet Celebrity's. The correct
Front Right (next to harmonic balancer) motor mount for a 1985 Celebrity would
be Anchor Part Number 2548. Again, we have a catalog error currently so this
part number will not show up in our catalog listed under your vehicle. If you
go to the Part Number Search tab (up at the top of the catalog page) you can
enter in Part #2548 to bring up a listing of this part with a picture of it
and a price for it as well. You can also order the part the same way, by
bringing up the listing through the Part Number Search tab and then adding
that part into the shopping cart. I hope this clears up any confusion you
might have had. Please let us know if you have any further questions or need
assistance placing an order.

Thank you,
Brandon
RockAuto Customer Service

phone: (608) 661-1376
fax: (608) 836-5694
toll-free: 1-866-ROCKAUTO (1-866-762-5288)

It turns this one out as the correct one for $13.16:



Right as passenger... yes, I would had thought that to be universal truth (except for England, Australia, Hong Kong and other places with the passenger in the wrong side).

[glasspilot]

It turns this one out as the correct one for $13.16:





This looks like the same one on my 88 Ciera, under the harmonic balancer. It's called a "Hydraulic" mount because it has oil inside it to reduce vibration. It is different than the one on the driver/tranny side. That one's just rubber.

I just replaced my Hyd mount because it was leaking from being immersed in oil for years from a bad oil leak. I just fixed my oil leak and I have a clean engine (and new right mount) again!

[LordDurock]

yea the other mount for sure was a 4.3 deisel mount. but ochy you should be able to go for a while with the worn mount, it not dead like tubb's is. should you want to wait a little bit to change it. from what i hear most a kinda instressing ot change.

[Tuddi]

I am actually feeling the strain on the drivetrain as it is now... if I speed up, the car makes a shake. When I bought the car in May, the driver's side wheel bearing was in thousands of pieces. The lower ball joint was rattling, with a 1/4" of free space inside itself... no urethane left there.... both of which probably caused by the motormount having lost all the rubber some years ago... and then the CV joint broke while driving, which didn't result in happy thoughts on my part.

Knowing what it can result in having faulty parts, it only encourages one to have things in good and working condition.

[ochy38]

i probably will wait a while, as school has got about 95% of my time taken up. i will definately replace it though, i dont particularly wanna wait till winter but i may have too

[a1veedubber]

I have changed a ton of those motor mounts and the two pictured are actually interchangeable.
This is the solid rubber mount for 82-84 Celebrities:

This is the hydraulic (Fluid filled) mount for 85-90 Celebrities:

I have used both on my cars previously, the hydraulic mount absorbs a lot more engine vibration but does not last as long.

[LordDurock]

I have changed a ton of those motor mounts and the two pictured are actually interchangeable.
This is the solid rubber mount for 82-84 Celebrities:

This is the hydraulic (Fluid filled) mount for 85-90 Celebrities:

I have used both on my cars previously, the hydraulic mount absorbs a lot more engine vibration but does not last as long.

that esplains why i was able to find one so easly..................:)

[CieraSL92]

No one mentioned it, but I'll add it for good measure. The dogbone is actually called a Torque Strut. I've also seen it listed as an Engine Strut.

[Xeoncross]

I need to replace the hydraulic mount on my 89 Celebrity.

I got the dog bone replaced fine, but now I am having trouble figuring out how to get that passenger-side mount on. I have an engine lift but when I try to lift the engine the whole car lifts! ;P

What do I need to undo to only lift the engine so I can pull the mount out?

[CieraSL92]

The engine mounts should be loosened/removed I would imagine. Lift the motor only as high as nessecary. You don't want to start stretching wires/vacuum hoses/oxer extending the cvs.

[notsoslimshady76]

I did this on my W body and have not done it on my Ciera yet. It should be the same instructions.

- On the subframe there are two nuts that need to be taken off.
- Unbolt the dog bone mount on the front of the engine.
- Disconnect the air box too!
- Lift the engine up (make sure you have a flat piece of wood on your jack. It spreads the weight evenly so you don't dent your oil pan. Don't jack it too high, or you can break an axle.
- On the front left side of the engine there will be a bracket bolted to the block. Some bolts towards the front, others toward the passenger wheel. There were 4 on my Cutlass Supreme, there may be less or more on a Celebrity.
- With those bolts removed, you can pull the whole bracket and old motor mount out the top passenger side near the serpentine belt. Replace the motor mount and put it all back (easiest part by far!)
- Lowering the engine I had a hard time aligning the holes for the subframe bolts. It took another jack on the transmission side to shift the engine over.

This picture is looking up at the subframe from under the car.

There is another mount on the transmission side, but I don't think its hydraulically filled. I didn't replace that one.

[notsoslimshady76]

As a side note, I did this all in a parking lot. Doing it the second time would be a lot easier. Just take your time and don't rush anything. It is not too hard of a job

[Xeoncross]

- On the subframe there are two nuts that need to be taken off.

Done (the two nuts that are attached to the mount right?)



- Unbolt the dog bone mount on the front of the engine.

Done.



- Disconnect the air box too!

What is an airbox?



- Lift the engine up (make sure you have a flat piece of wood on your jack. It spreads the weight evenly so you don't dent your oil pan. Don't jack it too high, or you can break an axle.

I have an engine host so I don't need to jack it up.



- On the front left side of the engine there will be a bracket bolted to the block. Some bolts towards the front, others toward the passenger wheel. There were 4 on my Cutlass Supreme, there may be less or more on a Celebrity.

I haven't found this yet.



- With those bolts removed, you can pull the whole bracket and old motor mount out the top passenger side near the serpentine belt. Replace the motor mount and put it all back (easiest part by far!)

So you're saying that you lift is up out the passenger side instead of from under the car?


- Lowering the engine I had a hard time aligning the holes for the subframe bolts. It took another jack on the transmission side to shift the engine over.
I've been warned. :)


Would you mind explaining the bracket thing a little more? Oh, and thanks for the instructions. I've never done (or seen done) anything like this before so I can use all the help I can get. Right now I am just going at it as a learning experience.

[notsoslimshady76]

Yup, you got the right nuts :rofl:

An airbox is just where the air filter goes. Its usually bolted down.

The bracket is this squarish bracket that bolts physically to the bottom of the engine block. Here's some pictures I borrowed from a member on the W body board:





It is a rectangular bracket that is under all the accessories. Part of it is near the oil filter. Its black in this picture. The motor mount is attached to it. You can get the front bolts from under the car. The ones on the accessory serpentine side you can get from above the car.

Yes, I lifted the entire bracket/motor mount out and up the passenger side. It just wouldn't fit pulling it out and down.

The only thing about using a lift is, be sure to lift more on the passenger side. When I lifted my engine to do this, the engine was very much tilted. If you lift straight up, the axles / transmission will hold the car down.

Be aware of the knock sensor on the back of the block under the exhaust manifold. The wire is pretty sure and I pulled mine out. It was a little broken, but I was able to jam it back in.

Lots of words, I hope that helped!

[Xeoncross]

I found two bolts on the front of the car frame (on the driver side, near/under the front fan area) that looked like they had been removed before - and I undid them. They looked like they were strapping the engine to the car on the driverside.

As is said before I also undid the two on the bottom of the motor mount that was keeping it strapped to the frame.

I also undid the dog bone.

However, I when I lift the engine the WHOLE car still lifts up. I lift a little bit more on the driver side - is that what is doing it?

Now about that bracket.


This black U-shaped thing attached to the mount is supposed to come up and off right? (after I lift the engine) so that I can get to the top two bolts on the motor mount?

But why is the whole engine still lifting up? :confused:

[mickstan_VR]

You need to remove that u shaped bracket. THEN you can get to the top 2 nuts on the motor mount.
Are you going to go ahead and replace the other 2 mounts? You should. Its a bit of a bit@h to do, but well worth it. And if you dont, your motor will sit angled a bit because the other mounts are soft.
The whole process is a LOT easier if the struts and axles are removed and out of the way. And what the heck, ya' may as well go ahead and replace them while they're out too!
Roughly 450 bucks for all of the parts, including an alignment, axle seals, and front brake pads. And give yourself a weekend to do it.

[notsoslimshady76]

Yeah that whole black U shaped thing needs to come off. Once removed just tilt it. It comes up and out the top. If the whole car goes up a little, no biggie. Just make sure you don't snap the axles

[87Cutlass Ciera]

My 87 Ciera has the same problem, this summer when I was driving it (and when we first bought the car) it would make the most aweful sound when in drive/reverse and stopped with the brake on. So I would just put it in Neutral while at a stoplight or if I were stopped for a long enough period of time. So I decided to change the torque strut, 15 bucks wasn't a hole in the wallet so it wasn't no big. I put it on, took the car for a drive, it seemed better for a little while, and after a 5 minute drive it was back to the same ol same ol, So I pop the hood and see that the rubber bushing was squeezed out one side, I figured defective part, so I returned it and got another one just to have it do the same thing, so I just left it. While having my car serviced before I went to University, my mechanic said that the mount on the front of the car and on the motor wasn't alligned and I said I knew this but didn't know why it was, I had speculations that it was another motor mount, but really didn't want to take the time (nor did I have time) to haul the motor up to replace it. So he played with it and said he didn't know what it was, but it was probably another mount. SO before Xmas when I had to pull the motor, I see that it indeed was the mount on Passenger side, as I can pick it up and move it around! Shot all to pieces, and I believe it was the Hydraulic one. Thats my 2 cents worth, since I plan on doing a 440T transmission swap, I'll also replace that mount too before a motor goes back in.
I miss my Oldsmobile :( The VW is nice, but it's not my baby.

[LordDurock]

i think you can remove the motor mount with out getting at the u shaped bracket. or at lest you can on mine. all you need a is a box end.

[Xeoncross]

Ok, so I will remove the black bracket once I figure out how to get the engine up.

Every time I lift the engine the whole car lifts up with it. Is there anything else that I need to unbolt? What is still strapped to the engine?

[notsoslimshady76]

My car lifted a bit when I did it aka the front wheels were floating

[mickstan_VR]

The other 2 mounts under the transmission are still connected, along with the axles. It might be easier for you to use a floor jack to lift the engine up one side at a time. You can't just pull on the motor and expect it to magically come out.

[Xeoncross]

My car lifted a bit when I did it aka the front wheels were floating

:eek5: ok... so that is normal? I lifted until the tires started to come up and then I decided I was about to break something. If it is ok then I might try lifting it until the tires lift up again.

I also will use a jack under the car. However, the oil pan is only about 10"x6" wide - can it handle all that weight? Even with a 2x6?

[LordDurock]

:eek5: ok... so that is normal? I lifted until the tires started to come up and then I decided I was about to break something. If it is ok then I might try lifting it until the tires lift up again.

I also will use a jack under the car. However, the oil pan is only about 10"x6" wide - can it handle all that weight? Even with a 2x6?

NEVER JACK ON THE OIL PAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!
this will happen
(tuddi's post in the chevre thread)

or this
(86euro's) post in the chevre thread)



okay did every one get the credit they derserve?

[mickstan_VR]

If you pulled hard enough on the motor, the front end can come off the ground. DONT DO THAT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You will cause more damage if you haven't already done so! I would suggest you go to the local autozone and spend 15 bucks on a manual, THEN READ IT before screwing with ANYTHING! What the F? Do you honestly think the engine just pops right out if you lift it? Its attatched with all sorts of things! You can do some SERIOUS damage by pulling on the engine 'till the wheels come off of the ground. You've probably already destroyed the transmission mounts by doing that. If you use a jack, DO NOT raise the car off of the ground! You're only lifting the engine about 1-2 inches to get the mounts out. Its a VERY tight fit. DON'T force it.

[notsoslimshady76]

Well Ok. I guess I should clarify again. My wheels were maybe an inch off the ground. I used a big piece of wood. I did not damage my axles, transmission mounts, etc. The worst thing I did was pop out my knock sensor bc the wire was too short.

[Xeoncross]

I would suggest you go to the local autozone and spend 15 bucks on a manual, THEN READ IT before screwing with ANYTHING! What the F? Do you honestly think the engine just pops right out if you lift it? Its attatched with all sorts of things!

lol, ya I think I will stop by autozone.... :D

[LordDurock]

lol, ya I think I will stop by autozone.... :D

your libray might have one.......mine does. ;) and it has free alldata. it so COOL

[Xeoncross]

Well I bought the book and it doesn't say anything about engine mounts.

So here is my plan now.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Well I bought the book


Did you look here (http://www.autozone.com/shopping/repairGuide.htm)?

[Xeoncross]

yep. nothing about mounts

[CieraSL92]

I know it talks about the mounts. hold up let me look in mine.

[CieraSL92]

What engine, and what mount are you trying to replace. I got that it was an 89 Celeb, but the engine is important.

[Xeoncross]

89 Celeb 2.8L v6, front wheel drive.

I recorded a short video on the car which you can see here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=4u_9Q2MpDeA

[CieraSL92]

Can't find my book, and autozones online doesn't have it. Regarding engine removal, it states it remove the tranny to block bolts and remove the engine front mount-to-cradle retaining nuts (right side of vehicle).

Tonglebeak has a Factory manual and might be willing to scan part of it..if he reads this.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

89 Celeb 2.8L v6,


I can't copy my 87 Olds Shop Manual...but maybe Sunday I could get it done...if asked.

Engine Mount - A Series

Remove or Disconnect

1. Mount retaining nuts from below cradle mounting bracket. (Comment, there is a bracket on motor that hooks into motor-mount...not the CRADLE).

2. Raise engine to provide clearance.

3. Mount to engine bracket nuts.

4. Mount.

Install or Connect

1. Mount

2. Mount to engine bracket

3. Lower engine

4. Mount retaining nuts

Torque - mount retaining nuts - 35 ft. lbs.


There is a notice to check if trans-axle mounts are properly aligned.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Here's some pictures I borrowed from a member on the W body board:

Can you cite the URL for forum's page where these were found?

thx

[Electra_T_Type]

On the topic of the torque strut, what about replaceing the rubber part with polyurathain(sp?)? I've seen it on another forum, can't remember which though.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Or replace the Torque strut with the "super" torque strut. Find a Buick or olds, with a torque strut like you havent seen befor. Grab the hole thing, from the mouting bracket, back to the nut and bolt for the strut itself. Put on your car, you will never have to replace it again.

It looks like this one..