Project Turbodiesel Century...

[turbokinetic]

Well the turbocharger just got here for this project! I've made some preliminary designs of how the system will need to be built, and it will have to be done a little different than my gas engine turbo projects.

The first issue is the sheer size of the diesel engine. There is absolutely no room behind the engine to route an exhaust downpipe. It will have a front downpipe. Thinking back to my first turbo conversion, the pipe will be welded into the subframe, with reinforcements over and under it. This will only reduce subrframe ground clearance by about 1 inch, with a 3" pipe.

The exhaust pipe will have a vee-band connector at the subframe so the front piece of the exhaust system can be removed easily, such as transmission pan R&I.

Now; that position will work well with the VNT turbo, because the exhaust housing can't be rotated on the turbo. It has to be in the position shown. This will allow the exhaust inlet to point toward an open area where the turbo mount can be built with more room. Plus the large VNT actuator can be in open area near the radiator, and be away from exhaust system heat.

Also will place the compressor air inlet directly pointed towards the left front fender area, where the airbox will sit; and the compressor outlet points straignt foreward, to a hole in the core support leading to the charge air cooler.

The engine intake plenum will have to be replaced with a fabricated weldment. I plan to build it from steel pipe, with a Y junction near the back of the A/C compressor, having the air inlet pipe from the charge air cooler below the Freon lines and downward.

http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/turboposition1.jpg

http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/turboposition2.jpg

http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/turboposition3.jpg

The 2 gold metal pipes are the coolant pipes. The oil supply and return are on the bottom.

The Garrett VNT turbocharger is a very interesting piece of machinery. The following pictures show how it works. The reason behind it is that it can create a "sharply angled small nozzle" to extract the most energy from the small volume of exhaust at low engine speeds, then open up and allow the engine to breathe at high speeds. It does this by varying the angle of the nozzle blades. (yes that ring of movable blades is called a "nozzle")

See Garrett's site (http://www.honeywell.com/sites/ts/tt/Medium_Heavy_Duty_Trucks3_C2ASGB2C88G4I61F0E0M5UDL HJH5I7CMM0812163602985_H72R0EVAKLD6FQX15SGLU68INR0 GFR1650812164520395.htm) for more info.

The box on the right is the electric actuator:
http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/VNT0.JPG

You can see the VNT nozzle blades around the turbine:
http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/VNT1.JPG

The little arm beside the turbine wheel moves the VNT mechanism:
http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/VNT2.JPG

High engine speeds, low exhaust restriction:
http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/VNT3.JPG

Low engine speeds, to get more energy from less exhaust:
http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/VNT4.JPG

Fully closed (not normal operation):
http://68.209.87.173/85_Century/Turbo/VNT5.JPG

The pitch of the blades is controlled by an electric actuator. I'm trying to research the proper signals the actuator needs to work. At worst I will have to remove the factory circuit board and make a controller that directly operates the stepper motor.

The turbo was spec'd for a Hino medium-duty truck engine, from what I can tell it was approximately a 4 liter 200 HP engine factory application.

The control scheme for the VNT will be an interesting programming job. From what I have read, it needs to take engine RPM and throttle position into account (on a diesel) but not really boost pressure. The actuator needs to be "swept" through its full range of motion, periodically, to keep carbon deposits out of it, too.

This turbo came from eBay. The box arrived from China! Supposedly it was taken off a used engine with 10 hours of operation time. I don't see any signs of engine oil or exhaust soot. It may be a counterfeit turbo that is a copy of a Garrett. The VNT actuator, however, is indeed a real Garrett part.

Thanks,
David

[OldsTurboDiesel]

David, very nice turbo, copy or the real thing! It does not look like it has had any exhaust through it, or, they are very good at cleaning up low mile turbos! The turbine blades and housing don't have even a hint of being warm. Nice to see some pictures of the engine, that 4.3L in your "A" engine compartment is a very tight fit compared to the 4.3L in my "H" body. You have some turbo installation challenges ahead! Bruce.

[turbokinetic]

David, very nice turbo, copy or the real thing! It does not look like it has had any exhaust through it, or, they are very good at cleaning up low mile turbos! The turbine blades and housing don't have even a hint of being warm. Nice to see some pictures of the engine, that 4.3L in your "A" engine compartment is a very tight fit compared to the 4.3L in my "H" body. You have some turbo installation challenges ahead! Bruce.

That turbo is definately NEW. The actuator appears to be used lightly.

The VNT mechanism is simple, however the materials used in the mechanism have to withstand the extreme heat, and vane movement with no lubrication. If the materials used to make the VNT parts are not correct, it will tell on them in a hurry. This has been one of the main areas the VNT's have evolved over the years. The early ones were very troublesome for VNT sticking, jamming, and wear.

The inventor of variable angle turbo nozzles went out of business before perfecting it. They tried to build a turbo that didn't take any lube oil from the engine. This fact, and a lack of materials that would withstand the environment in which the VNT lives, caused their demise. They were only good to 15 PSI, and only on small engines. Nothing like this engine and definately nothing like the Turbonetics units I used on my gas engines.

EDIT - someone is still making them. See Aerocharger (http://www.aerocharger.com/) who sell an Aerodyne-style turbo for small engines and even sell parts to fix the original Aerodyne turbos.

Yes it is pretty tight in there! You see why I say it will have to be fitted with a front-routed downpipe. There is just no room behind the engine!

The exhaust will be 3". It will be set into the subframe with reinforcement welded into the subframe above it, and below it; as well as a skid plate in that area. Should only reduce ground clearence about 1 to 1.5 inches.

Later,
David

[LordDurock]

this looks to be intressing........the good news is i have more room with muncie then the 125c but i have dual battrys and stock glow plugs

[turbokinetic]

...dual batteries and stock glowplugs...

Hmmm... What's different about the glow plugs?

You can always relocate the battery to the trunk. I may eventually do that on this car. Both my other A cars, as well as my Nova have rear batteries. The batteries last forever away from heat and dirt.

When I get home from work in 2 weeks I'll be starting on the fabrication work.

I plan to do the turbo mount with the engine in-car so that it will be in a position that does not hit any parts of the car. Then when the engine is out for rebuild, I'll bolt the engine to the 4T65E transmission and do the rest of the system fabrication around that transmission. I built my first turbo system (for my 86 T-Type) around a 125C transmission. It was not usable with the 440T4 and had to be massively reworked to upgrade the transmission. Then on the 84 Olympia, I got lucky and the 4T65EHD just barely fit under the turbocharger. Don't want to take any chances here.

The through-subframe pipe will end with a donut flange pointing rearward. I'll take it to an exhaust shop to get the remainder of the exhaust system built. It'll be another 3" system.

The basic routing will be same as an Iron Duke with front exhaust manifold. Pipe will go under oilpan at the "thin" area nearest the front of the engine, and around trans tailhousing.

The downpipe from the turbo to the through-subframe pipe will have to be built in-car after the engine goes back in.

Other than those 2 design elements - all else is yet to be determined!

David

[LordDurock]

this is the cruise (going to nuke that someday lol it only half hooked up right now anyways no survo, link age or vacume, plug is never worked anyways and i really didn't want to fight with it) and stock glow plug relay stuff

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb167/lorddurock/IMAGE_004.jpg

[turbokinetic]

Oh! With that new cluster, you will have an optical VSS sensor and can use the much simpler Electro-Motor Cruise, like the newer Chevy trucks have. It is much simpler, with only a few wires, and a throttle cable. NO vacuum at all.

My glow plug relay is mounted on the engine, above the bellhousing! It has been jerry-rigged to a pushbutton but I will be fixing that properly when the engine is rebuilt and all the other useless EGR and smog crap is removed. Probably will mount the relay over by the battery.

Your engine looks really clean!

Say - have you any source of oil pumps for these engines? I hear they are very hard to find.

[LordDurock]

Oh! With that new cluster, you will have an optical VSS sensor and can use the much simpler Electro-Motor Cruise, like the newer Chevy trucks have. It is much simpler, with only a few wires, and a throttle cable. NO vacuum at all.

My glow plug relay is mounted on the engine, above the bellhousing! It has been jerry-rigged to a pushbutton but I will be fixing that properly when the engine is rebuilt and all the other useless EGR and smog crap is removed. Probably will mount the relay over by the battery.

Your engine looks really clean!

Say - have you any source of oil pumps for these engines? I hear they are very hard to find.


must have missed the post lol

yes my motor is very clean lol (hard no to wipe stuff down when you have a motor out)
still waiting on that cluster?

i dont know about the oil pump i will ask my napa guy about digging in the books in there free time. to see if one can be had. that seemed to give me luck when looking for no listed parts.

[Tuddi]

It has been jerry-rigged

That's the first time I have seen that expression... "Jerry" refers to Germans?

I recently learned of the "nigger-rigged" phrase, while in the jungle... a Texan living there used it to describe Peruvian workmanship... using whatever that's available, to make things work...

Is the same meaning in the "Jerry-rigged"?

Of course I know of political correctness, and not using the "n" word... but since I am completely against racism and some of my best friends (considered as true brothers) are black africans from Africa, I don't have a problem using the word, given that it is in context and not used in an offending way... I therefore see no problem in using it when it's in words like "nigger rigging" or "house nigger" (the second one a job-description)...

Anyways... Jerry rigging... where does that originate from, and what is the basic meaning of it?

[SilentWing]

not sure where it originates from but yes that's the same basic concept as n*gger rigging, just throwing stuff together in the cheapest way possible to make it work.

[86euro]

Huh, I've never heard the "house" one before.

[Duke George V]

That's the first time I have seen that expression... "Jerry" refers to Germans?

I recently learned of the "nigger-rigged" phrase, while in the jungle... a Texan living there used it to describe Peruvian workmanship... using whatever that's available, to make things work...

Is the same meaning in the "Jerry-rigged"?
Almost. "Nigger rigged" has a MUCH more negative connotation, given the word's history in America. It would mean that, simply having been done by a black person, it was of inherently low quality.

[Tuddi]

Huh, I've never heard the "house" one before.

Google it with Harry Belafonte, and you can see that he used it as a job description for Colin Powell, when that HN did the bidding of his masters, lying and deceiving the world community.



"Nigger rigged" has a MUCH more negative connotation, given the word's history in America.

I understand it is a sensitive word in America... but where I live (Peru), people use the word "Negro" all the time, and it is just like "Buddy" or "you there"... with an added focus on the person's skin color, and not meant in a negative way at all. All the new-speak, where one can not say this or that because words have become "bad" or some such, is just idiotic in my view. Words are what they are. People can put different meanings into them, make them mean something completely different (Gay = Happy.... then it became the synonym of being homosexual). I prefer to see words for what they are, and not for what they have been twisted into becoming.

For my part, I think "nigger rigged" is a cool word. It expresses the ingenuity of the people who had nothing to do what had to be done, but still they managed to make things work. A positive trait.... not negative at all. Wish we had more people who could manage things with leftover parts... which is often the ONLY way to get equipment going, when it HAS to work... until one can get proper parts that last.

So it's a positive phrase.

[turbokinetic]

My mom and dad tried their best to teach my sister and I that all people are equal. Until about the 6th grade, I was nearly "colorblind."

Then, our family moved from Dallas, TX area to a small Mississippi delta town. There is a hundred years worth of pent-up racism in that area. I shyed away from it as much as possible, but it is engrained in Southern culture too deeply to remove. After living in that town for 8 years, I think those racist things, but try my best not to say anything.

I beleive that people (in general) want to like each other, and do so until given a reason not to. Also, stereotypes exist because a group of similar-appearing people exhibited similar behavior. In that town (in MS) the stereotype holds true quite often.

In an area where you hear alot of racist comments, you can bet that there is some type of trouble with that group of people. I've learned that working in many areas all thorughout the eastern end of the country. If there's lots of racist talk about blacks, Mexicans, Cubans, whatever; then USUALLY in that area there's been a problem. Probably there is a group of those people who constantly cause trouble and give the whole minority population in the area a bad name.

Just my two cents worth.
David

[Prospeeder]

About you oil pump. As far as napa goes. Sealed Power is who does our engine parts. They list

Lifters
Rocker parts
Valve seals
Engine cam bearings
And Freeze plugs

No main bearings, no ring sets, no gaskets, nothin....dealer is where you might be stuck. If you want, i can ask a guy down at my other store who is like, the 45 year running parts guy who can damn near find anything. He may be able to find a lead on getting one. Let me know, if i can find one, i would send it to you no problem