3400 top end swap

[Tonglebeak]

I've taken up the task of doing a top-end swap on the 2.8, with 3400 and 3500 parts. So my hope is to make a high-revving hybrid out of the 2.8 bottom end and 3400/3500 top end. I've already proven on youtube that my 2.8 is a masterpiece off the line. It has the same 0-30 time as skalor's turbo'd l67. But after that, my car is left in the dust >_> and as apparent in that video, it just doesn't have the high-end power.

I've ordered the exhaust manifolds+xover from ebay for $65 including shipping, and I'm trying to buy 3400 heads as well now.

You can view the thread on 60degreev6 here:
http://www.60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=38652

Yes I'm aware the thread makes me look like a dumbass, but this is my 1st ever attempt at putting real power in a car.

So many projects going on with this car at the same time X_X

IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE/INPUT, please post it here or in that thread. THANKS!

[86euro]

The 3100 cieras use the rear exhaust manifold with the driver side exit, I would recommend not to use it. The later style center dump is a better design and it wouldn't be hard to rig up a down pipe from another car. You will also need to figure out a throttle cable and TV cable setup for the 3400 throttle body.

[skalor]

A 3X00 top end swap in not an easy ordeal if you've never done anything like it before. I just hope you don't think you'll get it done in a weekend. Otherwise, I have some 3100 heads I can send you if you want. They are the '94-'95 non-roller heads and I stole the 1.6 rockers for my old TGP. You probably want the later '00+ 3X00 stuff though, at least I would. Also, since your going to have it all the way down on the bare block you may as well put a cam in it. It's up to you though and the topend swap will make a good difference.

Oh, and I didn't have the gas floored until about 30 mph in my video. ;)

[BBrip84Oatsie95]

Oh, and I didn't have the gas floored until about 30 mph in my video. ;)

PWN!! :D

[Tonglebeak]

skalor, what gains do you think I could expect out of this? I'm doing it piece by piece, but in the end is this really going to make my car quicker, or is it one of those "omg add a spoilerz and make ur car feel faster" sort of deals?

Also, how will I be able to get the ecm tuned for this?

I'll be happy if I end up running 14's or something. As long as I can put the ricers in their place :)

[skalor]

Unless you want to buy the necessary rom programmer and learn to tune the engine I would just see if Ben(Sappy or Vegeta) from 60degreev6 can custom make a chip for you. I noticed they have a performance chip for A-bodies on the 60degreeV6 store so if you tell him that you have a top swapped 2.8 I'm sure he'll have a tune that will work for you. I couldn't really tell you what kind of power your going to get from the setup. I sure it would be a noticeable gain, maybe 20hp. It would really wake up the engine to do a cam as well. If you haven't already, I would hang out on 60degreeV6 and learn as much as you can from the guys over there.

[Tonglebeak]

20hp? That's it? :(

So is this going to end up being a waste of money?

[nfarnham2001]

Hmmm, I guess since I plan to take the head off of my 3300 and do some work on the ports and matching them up, maybe I should do some more top end as well, like tonglebeak. BUt then again, I am also looking at two other options, buying that 90's delta 88, or swapping out a 3.4 (more so for the fact that it would have 0 miles, rather than power)

[skalor]

Think about it this way, a 3400 is only ~175 hp. Since you have less displacement you won't make that much horsepower. I bet it would be from 150-160 hp at the flywheel. This is exactly why I suggested a cam, you can probably get another 20 hp easy.

[Tonglebeak]

True it has less displacement, but won't it be able to rev high much more easily? :\ I dunno, the only way to find out is to do the swap and see what I get afterwards. I know right now my 2.8 has a nice low end to it, so who knows. At least I'll learn things regardless of what happens in the end.

[Duke George V]

I recommend going the distance and putting in the 3.1 crank and connecting rods as well, since that's really the only difference between the two engines. But then that starts going into "while I'm in there" territory, so be careful.

And don't fret over not revving to the moon, that's not what pushrod engines are for. I wouldn't count on going any higher than 5000, since a stock 3.1 makes peak power at 4800. Only way to know for sure is to have it dyno tuned afterwards, which will tell you exactly where your power is being made. Might not be an option if there isn't a dyno near you though...

[86euro]

But then that starts going into "while I'm in there" territory, so be careful.

Exactly, if you're going to the trouble of doing that, you may as well toss the whole 3400 in there. And since it will be out, may as well put in a reground cam. And then since the heads will be off, might as well bolt on a 3500 top end.

For you're first build, keep it simple. You won't have the fastest car on the block, but it will be fun to drive and you will gain a little more experience so you can more easily take on a bigger (read: faster) project later on down the road.

[LordDurock]

it looks like the 2.8 come tuned to start with but try upgrading to a inch big pipe then stock if usely adds some nice gains. but if you to to big you start to lose power

[The Dark Side of Will]

I've taken up the task of doing a top-end swap on the 2.8, with 3400 and 3500 parts. So my hope is to make a high-revving hybrid out of the 2.8 bottom end and 3400/3500 top end. I've already proven on youtube that my 2.8 is a masterpiece off the line. It has the same 0-30 time as skalor's turbo'd l67. But after that, my car is left in the dust >_> and as apparent in that video, it just doesn't have the high-end power.

I've ordered the exhaust manifolds+xover from ebay for $65 including shipping, and I'm trying to buy 3400 heads as well now.

You can view the thread on 60degreev6 here:
http://www.60degreev6.com/showthread.php?t=38652

Yes I'm aware the thread makes me look like a dumbass, but this is my 1st ever attempt at putting real power in a car.

So many projects going on with this car at the same time X_X

IF ANYONE HAS ANY ADVICE/INPUT, please post it here or in that thread. THANKS!

In your shoes, I'd just swap in the whole 3400 or (preferrably) non-VVT 3500. The 3400 with a decent exhaust & tune will get you 180 HP, while a 3500 will get you 205ish. As has been noted, you probably won't get more than 160 out of a 2.8 with Gen III top end.

Check out www.car-parts.com for good engine prices.

Since your upgrading a Gen II engine, you won't have the potential compression issues that you'd get from a Gen I engine with Gen III top end, but you'll still have a flat tappet cam, whereas the Gen III blocks have roller cams.

Just go Gen III all the way. You'll get more in the end and it won't be any more work than tearing down the top end of the 2.8 (I've done a head gasket job on a 3.1 MPFI and I'd rather pull the engine entirely than do that again).

[86euro]

I agree, it would be easier to swap the whole engine, but it usually requires more tools and it's a bit overwhelming to some people. If you do decide to go that route, look for the non-VVT 3500. The prices of them are really starting to come down and depending on where you get it from, can be downright cheap. I bought my 3400 when the 3500s were still pricey, and after a while I started thinking about doing a 3500 top end swap and a cam. I just decided to leave it alone and use it as is and here's why. Once the VVT setup gets completely figured out, it will make more sense just to swap in a VVT 3900 instead. In other words, I think it would be easier for you to swap motors rather than the topend AND you will be happier.

[CieraSL92]

Just to throw another rock in the spokes: Isn't this your daily driver?

[Tonglebeak]

It is, which is why I'm going to do it piece by piece.

So, assuming I DO put a crane h-272-2 camshaft in there, you're saying it'll easily net an extra 20hp for the cam alone, skalor? Are we looking a 180hp 2.8 if that is done?

And I'm going to think of this a different way: doing this top end swap is going to heavily educate me about engine work, etc. Once i do this, I may have more confidence in pulling off a forced induction setup, which is where the real power is at.

[Jr's3800]

First.... Please do not take me the wrong way here as I am a little rusty on the 60* engines..

But I agree with the consensus of the group... you will honestly be better off swapping to a 3400-3500 if you plan to make some power... The 3500 will easily get you 220 Hp with minor mods and even then it will have 3800 V6 Torque..

Now here is how I am looking at...

You have the GX3 3.33 4 Speed Tranny... When you hit it you take off and go because the car is geared so light... But the car runs out of breath fast because you are winding out in a hurry... Even at 80 Mph you will be twisting 2600-2700 Rpms iirc.. The with the 2.8 you have a shorter stroke and a smaller Bore... and you have the conventional Rockers as well as a Conventional Cam as opposed to a roller cam.... Now the thing that has always borthered me about the 60* engines is that they rev way too easy... and I have seen people over rev and go Boom... The Amount of TQ Management on the newer 3500 and 3900 is nuts... They are held back..

Maybe possibly think about swapping a Vin J 3100 with a 3400 Top end? The Vin J bone stock was good for 170-175 Hp and 190-195 ft lbs iirc with a 6000 red line.. I'd say even the 3100 J would wake your car up as light as it is...

Just a thought..

[Tonglebeak]

i don't have a 4 speed, or the gx3...what makes you think I do?

I have the 3 speed with a 2.84 final drive...

[Jr's3800]

Woops... Thats my Bad.. I should have asked and not assumed... I mixed you up with someone else..

The 2.84 is a bit on the heavy side for the 2.8.. That make me more certain that you could use more torque..

Any idea what the Factory Stall on that converter is?

[86euro]

Unfortunately, you won't be able to do it piece by piece and still drive the car. It's all or nothing.

[Tonglebeak]

I was told on 60v6 that doing it piece by piece is no problem :\

[86euro]

I think most of them misunderstood exactly what you wanted to do. The only thing you could do at a different time would be the exhaust because you stock manifolds will bolt up, they would just be restrictive. If it runs OK off the bat, you could also put off the tuning.

[Tonglebeak]

http://www.60degreev6.com/showpost.php?p=344948&postcount=25

I basically say it right there lol. Then there's a reply that says "yes that'll be fine"

:\

[86euro]

http://www.60degreev6.com/showpost.php?p=344948&postcount=25

I basically say it right there lol. Then there's a reply that says "yes that'll be fine"

:\

Yes, but the next reply by 3100 MPFI says otherwise;) If you do the cam, go with a 260, not the 272. The 260 will work out much better for a daily driven street car and will have a better shot at passing smog. I know Dave recommended the 272, but he has a crazy wild cam in his car, so it's mild for him:D
Also, I added my 2 cents on 60*

[CieraSL92]

You can't do it piece-by-piece.

[Tonglebeak]

Someone in a different thread gave me this link...FUCK

http://www.domesticcrew.com/660/hybrid.html

Glad I'm not going to do this for a while >_>

[Jr's3800]

I can understand what you are doing and why along with the reasons..

But by the time you have bought and paid for the parts and all of the related items it may have been just as cheap to swap in that 3400... I'd have to search, but I'm sure even around here the 3400's are abundant.... It may even be cheaper to just get the whole engine and use what you need off of it and keep the 3400 short block( Spray it down with some One Lube or something and Bag it to keep stored..)... Then use the parts you want..

Does look like in the future you'll have your work cut out for you:)

[Tonglebeak]

Meh. I wouldn't have a place to store the block. I'm just getting what I need...it's coming out to around $350ish so far I think (lemme recalc that later).

I'm also thinking about this: If I keep the short stroke of the 2.8 and put some sort of forced induction system on it, then there's no need to stroke it up for extra torque, meaning I can keep the very short stroke it has and use it to giddyup on those revs.

[Tonglebeak]

So far I've spent 252.95. That's for the LIM/exhaust manifolds, fuel rails/injectors (I'll probably resell the injectors), and the heads. I'm waiting to see if I can win the plenum. All and all this will come to around $300~ish. Not bad for a decent hp gain. ALthough I haven't gotten a camshaft yet...86euro, can you link me to the camshaft you're talking about?

[Tuddi]

Fast and easy HP gain can be acheived by changing the pulleys (crank and waterpump). 15-20 extra horses right there.... and better fuel economy... but you might run out of electricity if you mount too small pulleys, due to the alternator not rotating fast enough if your car is idle for long periods with lights or other power consuming things turned on.

[Tonglebeak]

Where do you get 15-20hp from? O_o

[Tuddi]

You gain that by less resistance on the alternator and the powersteering.

Having smaller diameter pulleys will result in the engine not using too many hp's on turning the alternator and power steering units.

Just to convince yourself, you can clock yourself on 0-60 as the car is now, then you remove the accessory belts and go for 0-60 on the same stretch of road. You should be a lot quicker.

If you get a pulley that is half the size you have now, you will gain around half of the speed gain... but as I said earlier, you may run out of battery juice if you use the car for extended periods during night time, with lights, heater etc running.

Installing a second battery would help that problem, but add to the total weight of the car... but then again, you could use "FlatFree" in your tires, and thereby being able to remove your jack and sparetire and lug wrench from the trunk, and gain a lighter car (without having to fear for the tires ever going flat).

Your gas-milage would absolutely improve as well.

[dcjredline]

Tuddi dual batteries will not really give him much advantage. What it will do is use 2 batteries and then the alt will have to work trying to charge them both. It will kind of equal out cause lets say for instance the batteries get used evenly 50/50 then the alt will still be trying to recover the same charge as if there were only one. High output alt and underdrive might even it out.

[Tuddi]

Tuddi dual batteries will not really give him much advantage. What it will do is use 2 batteries and then the alt will have to work trying to charge them both. It will kind of equal out cause lets say for instance the batteries get used evenly 50/50 then the alt will still be trying to recover the same charge as if there were only one. High output alt and underdrive might even it out.

Dual batteries would extend the time he could run things with undercharging. Increasing the idle RPM would also go a long way to eliminate the undercharging problem using the stock alternator.

Getting a bigger alternator, would void the pulley change, since it is heavier to turn.

[Jr's3800]

You gain that by less resistance on the alternator and the powersteering.

Having smaller diameter pulleys will result in the engine not using too many hp's on turning the alternator and power steering units.

Just to convince yourself, you can clock yourself on 0-60 as the car is now, then you remove the accessory belts and go for 0-60 on the same stretch of road. You should be a lot quicker.

If you get a pulley that is half the size you have now, you will gain around half of the speed gain... but as I said earlier, you may run out of battery juice if you use the car for extended periods during night time, with lights, heater etc running.

Installing a second battery would help that problem, but add to the total weight of the car... but then again, you could use "FlatFree" in your tires, and thereby being able to remove your jack and sparetire and lug wrench from the trunk, and gain a lighter car (without having to fear for the tires ever going flat).

Your gas-milage would absolutely improve as well.

If he was to remove the Belt, and go for a 0-60 run... say he had a 195 T-Stat in the car..... How hot would the motor be at the end of the run? and then with all of the electronics not being up to par as far as voltage goes will slow him down... with lights on, ECM functioning, Crank sensor functioning, ICM functioning, fuel injectors clicking away.... the system will easily drop to 11v in no time... Let alone the possibility of overheating the engine as the water pump is not being turned.... Just doesn't seem like a great thing to do in my eyes...

[Tuddi]

Running off the battery for a 0-60 will be no problem at all. Assuming he does it during daytime, without heater vent and lights, the battery would take at least half an hour to get down to 11v ... and I am pretty sure his car would have reached 60 by that time. Same goes for engine heat. We are talking about max30 seconds from the time he starts the car without the belts and until he turns it off again. NO harm can come to the engine during that time. None whatsoever.

[LordDurock]

yea you can run a cold (being 70F) motor for 4 minnits with out water as long as its not under load.

[Jr's3800]

Running off the battery for a 0-60 will be no problem at all. Assuming he does it during daytime, without heater vent and lights, the battery would take at least half an hour to get down to 11v ... and I am pretty sure his car would have reached 60 by that time. Same goes for engine heat. We are talking about max30 seconds from the time he starts the car without the belts and until he turns it off again. NO harm can come to the engine during that time. None whatsoever.


I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I checked on my own car and with the Alt unplugged I had 12.08....12.07....12.06... No accessories turned on at all... I had 14.25v as soon as the alt was plugged back in and the field was charged..

If this was a Crab Equipped car I would say sure he should hold power for a while.. The CCC in a Carb equipped car was quite simple and did not do much... Hence it did not use anything for power...

In a Port FI car, this is a little different.... And if he had an Electronic Trans which he doesn't that would add even more to the equation..


If thats something he wants to attempt to do Thats fine...

But again we'll agree to disagree:)

[Tonglebeak]

I guess we will have to agree to disagree... I checked on my own car and with the Alt unplugged I had 12.08....12.07....12.06... No accessories turned on at all... I had 14.25v as soon as the alt was plugged back in and the field was charged..

If this was a Crab Equipped car I would say sure he should hold power for a while.. The CCC in a Carb equipped car was quite simple and did not do much... Hence it did not use anything for power...

In a Port FI car, this is a little different.... And if he had an Electronic Trans which he doesn't that would add even more to the equation..


If thats something he wants to attempt to do Thats fine...

But again we'll agree to disagree:)

So, um, does a crab equipped car have 8 wheels or something? Pinchers on the fenders? @_@

[CieraSL92]

WHOAA! Big guy, you know teh engine needs to be removed for the cam to come out right?

[Tonglebeak]

Nah, there's supposedly plenty of clearance to do it without pulling the engine.

[Jr's3800]

So, um, does a crab equipped car have 8 wheels or something? Pinchers on the fenders? @_@


LMAO.... Yeah thats my bad..

Carb is what I meant...LOL



And I am curious as to how you are going to remove the Cam... Wheel Well Possibly? Lower the Subframe? Remove the engine?

[Tuddi]

In a Port FI car, this is a little different....

Fortunately I don't have one... so I don't know... but a single run from 0-60 to test power gain, can't hurt at all. It will be over in less than a minute, and that's not something one should fear trying.

If the car is hot, the radiator ventilator could be running all the time and drain juice from the battery, sure... but it's only for less than a minute. No damage can come to the engine or other equipment during that time. We can agree to disagree on many issues :) but we'd have to agree on the above point without disagreement! :)


So, um, does a crab equipped car have 8 wheels or something? Pinchers on the fenders? @_@

Yes they do!

:)

[Jr's3800]

Fortunately I don't have one... so I don't know... but a single run from 0-60 to test power gain, can't hurt at all. It will be over in less than a minute, and that's not something one should fear trying.

If the car is hot, the radiator ventilator could be running all the time and drain juice from the battery, sure... but it's only for less than a minute. No damage can come to the engine or other equipment during that time. We can agree to disagree on many issues :) but we'd have to agree on the above point without disagreement! :)



Yes they do!

:)

I will agree with you there... Yes he can do this.. :)

[86euro]

Tongle, the Crane 260 cam is listed on their site in the chevy v6 catagory. However, there is a company called Delta Cams that a lot of guys on 60* deal with that can make a cam to the same specs for about half the price. IIRC, ForcedFirebird had a copy made of the 260.

[Tonglebeak]

http://www.cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&lvl=2&prt=5&Vehicle_Type=Auto&Cylinders=6&Engine_Make=CHEVROLET&Year=1988&Engine_Size=2.8-3.1%20L&partNumber=253901&partType=camshaft

Am I correct in saying the cam is not rated to go beyond 4800rpm? O_O

[CieraSL92]

Who told you the cam can be removed with the engine in place? You realize it's almost the same length as the engine block?

[CieraSL92]

Also, yes, that cam will go to 4800. If there correct, valve float will occur at 5400 100RPM less than the red you have now. This would be acceptable if your willing to regear the tranny a bit, otherwise top speed would be affected.

Case your curious, valve float occurs when the springs don't pull the valves up fast enough at that high a speed. Ex: Cylinder one comes rocketing up torwards an intake valve that isn't closed yet. Dig?

[86euro]

I would believe that maximum rpm rating to be on the conservative side. You would need to use the recommended springs with any upgraded cam.

***after looking at the specs of the 272, I cancel my previous statement and recommend it and not the 260.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Also, yes, that cam will go to 4800. If there correct, valve float will occur at 5400 100RPM less than the red you have now. This would be acceptable if your willing to regear the tranny a bit, otherwise top speed would be affected.

Case your curious, valve float occurs when the springs don't pull the valves up fast enough at that high a speed. Ex: Cylinder one comes rocketing up torwards an intake valve that isn't closed yet. Dig?

That's very extreme valve float. That's only a potential problem on fully built engines in which piston-valve clearance is at a premium.

Valve float you're actually likely to encounter occurs when the valve hits the seat and bounces back off a little bit because the spring & damper can't absorb the energy it has when it hits the seat. The telltale signs of that are a change in engine sound and drop off in power. The power drop is sometimes difficult to see, even on a dyno curve, however.

[Tonglebeak]

The pieces are coming together, one at a time.

Fuel rail:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6536/fuelrailmq6.jpg

Heads:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2710/headsqq3.jpg

Lower intake manifold:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1359/limff9.jpg

Plenum:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9606/plenumrf7.jpg

Plenum inlet (and can someone point out which one is the iac and which is the tps? :\)
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8913/plenuminletzx9.jpg

And something that's bothering me: the inlet on the fuel rail. Is this normal or is it cracked?
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1469/railinletxa2.jpg

Also have the exhaust manifolds+xover pipe and all, but didn't take pics of those yet.

[LordDurock]

The pieces are coming together, one at a time.

Fuel rail:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/6536/fuelrailmq6.jpg

Heads:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/2710/headsqq3.jpg

Lower intake manifold:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/1359/limff9.jpg

Plenum:
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9606/plenumrf7.jpg

Plenum inlet (and can someone point out which one is the iac and which is the tps? :\)
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/8913/plenuminletzx9.jpg

And something that's bothering me: the inlet on the fuel rail. Is this normal or is it cracked?
http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/1469/railinletxa2.jpg

Also have the exhaust manifolds+xover pipe and all, but didn't take pics of those yet.

looks good dont for get the post and poilsh on the heads............:D

[BBrip84Oatsie95]

Trim those nasty-ass toenails.

[Tonglebeak]

XD those aren't mine >_>

[86euro]

Looks good. You will want to use the 2.8 injectors and injector harness with that fuel rail. Also, the sensor that's still bolted to the TB is the tps sensor.

[Tonglebeak]

I'm hoping I can get a chip tuned that will allow me to use the 3400 injectors instead...

[Tonglebeak]

Just letting everyone know, this is still going to happen.

Looked at my youtube video again. When shifting into second gear, and going 50, the engine is spinning just over 3000 rpms (calculated, can someone verify this? Supposed to be a 1.6-` 2nd gear ratio, 2.84 fd). I decided to clock speed increments, just to see how much the top end sucks as of right now.

50-60 - 2.96
60-70 - 3.5
70-80 - 4.07
80-85 - 2.02

After about 60, you hear a unique tone in that video. After that tone (which I can only imagine is indicating peak torque), the times start sucking.

Trying to get gaskets now, I'll definitely still need to work out the other tidbits as well.

[86euro]

Hey, I was just thinking about this earlier. Have you figured out what to do for a throttle linkage yet? It dawned on me that a friend used to have a 3100 beretta with the 125c tranny. You could use the linkage and bracket for that application because it will have the provision for the T.V. cable. The throttle cable may work too.
I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but IIRC, custom length pushrods will be needed.

[Tonglebeak]

Nope, haven't thought about the linkage lately.

I'll consult with the 60v6 guys about push rods. Probably should have new ones anyways regardless. Are they hard to change out?

[86euro]

Not hard, they will basically fall out when you unbolt the heads.

[Tonglebeak]

Ah ok.

I can't seem to find anyone on 60v6 who can burn a chip. I guess either no one ever read my posts about it, or there simply isn't anyone who can do it :\

I can't find the camshaft for a decent price anyways. Advance and several other online places want $230 for that, and ebay doesn't have it. GOD

Question about gaskets: does RTV need to be used on ALL gaskets, or just the valve covers?

[turbokinetic]

Without an existing chip to copy, or an engine with the same specs to tune, can't create a chip. If you have one to borrow I can copy it easily.

As for the RTV, throw that junk away! Get a can of Permatex Right Stuff. It is a form-in-place gasket just like the stuff GM uses. Comes in a can that looks like "easy-cheese" spread. This is 100% better than RTV. This is designed to be used in place of cork or paper gaskets in some applications.

If you have a paper or fiber gasket, don't put RightStuff or RTV on it. It will allow the gasket to extrude. Only put a light coat of aerosol contact adhesive such as Permatex Copper Spray, use on one side of gasket and the side of the block the treated side of the gasket bonds to. Most good quality gaskets come with instructions in the package explaining where and how much sealer to use.

Head gaskets are pre-treated and don't need any additional coatings.


Ah ok.

I can't seem to find anyone on 60v6 who can burn a chip. I guess either no one ever read my posts about it, or there simply isn't anyone who can do it :\

I can't find the camshaft for a decent price anyways. Advance and several other online places want $230 for that, and ebay doesn't have it. GOD

Question about gaskets: does RTV need to be used on ALL gaskets, or just the valve covers?

[Tonglebeak]

I guess I can put the cam and tune on hold, but when I hear people say "That camshaft will make your 2.8 sing" I really don't want to ditch it :\

[86euro]

I like to use Mopar gray sealant. The stuff works great, even on oily surfaces. For paper and cork gaskets, I personally like Indian Head "Gasket Shellac". Didn't like it at first, but I've found it to be very handy.

Back to topic, you will need to use a bead of RTV (or equivalent) where the lower intake meets the block (but not the heads). And also a dab on the valve cover rails at the point where the intake and heads meet, when installing the covers.

[Tonglebeak]

Alright.

After reading a camshaft guide at
http://members.shaw.ca/betterthanyoutoo/camshaft_guide.htm

I'm thinking I should go with the Comp Cams 16-233-4.
http://app.infopia.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/32214/vpid/3451670/vpcsid/0/rid/126348

Can the ecm handle this?

[86euro]

Can the ecm handle this?

Well, according to the listing, it says not for computer controlled. It could still work fine though, not too sure, I sort of "cam stupid".

[Tonglebeak]

Perhaps it means it's not compatible with variable timing or something? :\

[turbokinetic]

Usually, a cam "not for computer control" will not meet the emission standards of the original cam without ECM tuning adjustments. Some can not meet the emissions standards no matter what numbers you put in the ecm. If you don't have any smog sniffer test in your area, who cares.

In my opinion; you'll want to have the ECM tuned for any cam that is significantly different from stock anyway - to make the best benefit from it.

[Tonglebeak]

But that's not going to be easy to do, as you've already said, right? :(

If you lived near Maryland I'd consider driving to you to have it tuned :P

[turbokinetic]

It's not as hard as you might think but the hardware is not cheap. I describe the tuning process as "highly educated trial and error" where you make sure to err on the conservative side and push harder each time.

A good friend lives in Columbia, with all the rich folks in that area I'm surprised there is not any "real" tuning shops.

I was up there a couple weeks ago in fact. Hope it's not too cold on you folks now!

[86euro]

There's a company called "TBI Chips" that does mail-order custom chips and they are cheap. A few years ago, they did one for my TPI Camaro for $120. I had to send the first one back due to no cold start fueling, but they fixed it for free. It's likely not optimal, but it's much better than running the stock chip with all the parts I changed.

[Tonglebeak]

There's a company called "TBI Chips" that does mail-order custom chips and they are cheap. A few years ago, they did one for my TPI Camaro for $120. I had to send the first one back due to no cold start fueling, but they fixed it for free. It's likely not optimal, but it's much better than running the stock chip with all the parts I changed.




5:21 PM (1 hour ago)
Aaron SluntLoading...
5:21 PM (1 hour ago)
Aaron Slunt to brian

show details 5:21 PM (1 hour ago)



Reply


Hi. I'm planning on a 3400 large port top end swap for my 2.8mpfi 88 cutlass ciera. I plan on using this camshaft
http://app.infopia.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/32214/vpid/3451670/vpcsid/0/rid/126348

And I also want to use the 3400 multitec2 injectors instead of my old 2.8 injectors that will probably be going out soon anyways.

Is there a chance you can burn a chip that'll support the 3400 top end, that camshaft linked above, and the 3400 multitec2 injectors? Also, how much would it cost?

Thanks.

--
Tired of being hammered by spyware, or want to browse the internet in a whole new way? Download Firefox and enjoy a much better internet experience.
http://getfirefox.com/
Reply

Forward


Brian Harris
If that is a MAF 2.8L then you might get away with running that cam but no wa...

5:49 PM (33 minutes ago)
Brian HarrisLoading...
5:49 PM (33 minutes ago)
Brian Harris to me

show details 5:49 PM (33 minutes ago)



Reply


If that is a MAF 2.8L then you might get away with running that cam but no way your going to get away with that cam in a map speed density setup. Everything else should be doable.

Brian
- Show quoted text -


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Slunt
To: brian@bharris.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:21 PM
Subject: Custom OBD1 Chip

Hi. I'm planning on a 3400 large port top end swap for my 2.8mpfi 88 cutlass ciera. I plan on using this camshaft
http://app.infopia.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/32214/vpid/3451670/vpcsid/0/rid/126348

And I also want to use the 3400 multitec2 injectors instead of my old 2.8 injectors that will probably be going out soon anyways.

Is there a chance you can burn a chip that'll support the 3400 top end, that camshaft linked above, and the 3400 multitec2 injectors? Also, how much would it cost?

Thanks.

--
Tired of being hammered by spyware, or want to browse the internet in a whole new way? Download Firefox and enjoy a much better internet experience.
http://getfirefox.com/

Reply

Forward


Aaron Slunt
Ok, so there isn't a way a custom chip can be burnt for that cam then? (Yes, ...

6:01 PM (20 minutes ago)
Aaron SluntLoading...
6:01 PM (21 minutes ago)
Aaron Slunt to Brian

show details 6:01 PM (21 minutes ago)



Reply


Ok, so there isn't a way a custom chip can be burnt for that cam then? (Yes, it's a speed density ecm).
- Show quoted text -


On Jan 23, 2008 5:49 PM, Brian Harris <brian@bharris.org > wrote:

If that is a MAF 2.8L then you might get away with running that cam but no way your going to get away with that cam in a map speed density setup. Everything else should be doable.

Brian


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Slunt
To: brian@bharris.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:21 PM
Subject: Custom OBD1 Chip

Hi. I'm planning on a 3400 large port top end swap for my 2.8mpfi 88 cutlass ciera. I plan on using this camshaft
http://app.infopia.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/32214/vpid/3451670/vpcsid/0/rid/126348

And I also want to use the 3400 multitec2 injectors instead of my old 2.8 injectors that will probably be going out soon anyways.

Is there a chance you can burn a chip that'll support the 3400 top end, that camshaft linked above, and the 3400 multitec2 injectors? Also, how much would it cost?

Thanks.

--
Tired of being hammered by spyware, or want to browse the internet in a whole new way? Download Firefox and enjoy a much better internet experience.
http://getfirefox.com/




--
Tired of being hammered by spyware, or want to browse the internet in a whole new way? Download Firefox and enjoy a much better internet experience.
http://getfirefox.com/
Reply

Forward


Brian Harris to me

show details 6:17 PM (4 minutes ago)



Reply


No, not without a LOT of work and several chip adjustments.

Brian


----- Original Message -----
From: Aaron Slunt
- Show quoted text -


This isn't looking good... (TPI chip owner btw).

[turbokinetic]

Are you positive your car does not have a MAF already? I thought most of the MPFI motors were metered air systems?
David

[86euro]

His car has the speed density conversion. The '87-'88 MAF cars were pretty troublesome, '89 went to SD.

[turbokinetic]

Oh I see! I converted my T-Type to S/D because the crappy hot-film MAF meter died twice and never really worked all that good to begin with. Know the feeling!!

[Tonglebeak]

So the general consensus is, getting a cam will not work.

[86euro]

It was my understanding, just not that cam or one similar.

[Tonglebeak]

Can someone explain what exactly lifters are and how to replace them?

[turbokinetic]

The following ought to explain what a lifter is. They transfer the motion of the camshaft to the pushrods and remainder of valvetrain. The lifter includes either a precisely machined surface (flat lifter) or a rollerbearing (roller lifter) which actually rides on the cam and is the cam follower; and a hydraulic section that will automatically adjust the valve lash as the engine runs.

R&I lifters on a vee-block engine usually requires R&I intake manifold, rockers (loosen), and remove pushrods.

Pictures of Buick 3800 but yours will be similar.

This answer your question?

http://68.209.87.173/89_LeSabre/lifter_6.jpg

http://68.209.87.173/89_LeSabre/lifter_1.jpg

http://68.209.87.173/89_LeSabre/lifter_inst_1.jpg

[Tonglebeak]

So uh, you just slip them into the holes then?

[turbokinetic]

Yep. Put some cam assembly lube on the bottom; Slip them into the holes, turn them so the flat sides are parallel and drop the retainer over them.

Flat and roller lifters have a different cam lobe profile and are NOT interchangable. Flat lifters (non roller) are supposed to go back to the same position on the cam. Technically you aren't supposed to replace flat lifters w/o replacing the camshaft also and vice-versa.

Roller lifters (used but not damaged) do not have to go back in same place, and can be re-used on a new or dfferent used cam. It is OK to replace lifters and cam independantly with roller lifters.

[Tonglebeak]

Alright, Reason I'm asking is because it was suggested to me to use the phase 2 camshaft here:
http://www.engine-parts.com/GMV6/28camspecs.html

And then the guy can burn me a chip. He said it was impossible to burn it with a bigger cam, without having the car there. At any rate, I'll need to inquiry as to whether or not it's a flat tappet cam.

[Tonglebeak]

BTW, that whole chip burning thing didn't work out. He never got back to me after I gave him the injector ratings...he needed flow ratings which I couldn't get for him. So in the end I'm screwed.

If i want to do the camshaft later in the future, do I need to replace teh gaskets when I pull the heads? I don't want to have to spend $80 everytime I pull the heads off :(

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

he needed flow ratings which I couldn't get for him.


Explain what he wants....there's hope....tell me what he whats.

Flow ratings, at idle, 2,000 RPM, etc....this can be determined.

[Tonglebeak]

He wasn't precise, he had said he needed the flow ratings (yeah, that is pretty broad I guess) for the 3400 top end.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

...he needed flow ratings which I couldn't get for him



You have to know the specs on your injectors:

BOSCH (http://www.komfortwaggon.co.uk/injectors.htm)


Then, a spread sheet program could be used:

[XLS]....SpreadSheet....Injector Requirements (http://home.mchsi.com/%7Ejroal/exe/injectors.xls)

But, also, knowing the pulse width currently, can assist in refining the calculation.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

delete

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

flow ratings


I just re-scanned this thread, and in essence, you installed a different set of heads/injectors, with same computer chip?

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

...flow ratings...

Based upon what I think was done, there is a trick to enrich your mixture a pinch.

How to Richen a Narrow Band O2 Sensor (http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hd2007HD_nbo2_volt_divide.htm)


You will have to find a two wire narrow band O2 Sensor, which one lead goes to ground, and the other lead goes to ECM; if you live around a larger city, you can find these in salvage yards. Even the 4 wire narrow band O2 sensor will work, the other two wires are for running O2 sensor's heater, like this Bosch Part # 15735 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?catalog=23&partnum=15735&a=FR23-15735)

Your fuel mileage will suffer a pinch if you richen O2 sensor, but there will be a pinch more fuel. I suspect the timing advance is OK, but that you need a pinch more fuel?

My 88 Beretta, with 2.8, has one heck of fuel enrichment when you put the peddle to the metal; blackish color smoke just rolls out of that exhaust pipe, and on a calm day, there's a small cloud of blackish smoke. I haven't bother to trace down what the problem is since it gets decent fuel economy otherwise.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

tuning process as "highly educated trial and error"


Got any screen shots of this....are you putting in fuel data points, for instance?

Can you just give a sense of what the parameters are that are being twitched?

Timing, for instance, specific points inputted, or just overall advance number?

[Tonglebeak]

I haven't installed anything yet...

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

I haven't installed anything yet...

Doing an in-frame head switch on a 2.8 would take some time....installing a cam would most likely require taking the motor out, or cutting a hole out in your wheel well.

And if you put a cam in, you need (or should) put new cam bearings in...and it may be better to have a machine shop install the cam bearings...which means you have to pull the motor.

The list goes on...but if you put the cam in, it might be better to rebuild the block....and if any hot pistons exist, you might add them, with some better rods....

Just a matter of time, and you would have several grand or more in that motor, but it would be good for another 100,000 plus miles....but your transmission may shoot craps with increased load.

It might be cheaper to find a motor with more HP to start with, and use it, with its ECM....correct me if I am error, but won't those 3400 fit? Have to check motor mounts, or adapt some.

Imho, if it was a RWD vehicle, I might play around with different motors, transmissions, etc...but in a FWD vehicle, I'd look for the vehicle with the "right stuff" installed there, or could be installed without being a PIA.

[Tonglebeak]

Ok, can someone answer the gasket question then at least? :\ Do I need to change gaskets everytime the heads get pulled off?

[CieraSL92]

Yeah. Once you break the seal, you probably won't be able to get it back with the same gasket.

Don't even try it with head gaskets.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Do I need to change gaskets every time the heads get pulled off?

Yes Sir...every time....and clean threads on bolts/nuts...every time.

Found some tidbits for you:

MPI. GM never used Multi-Port Injection (MPI) (http://s-series.org/component/option,com_tech_article/Itemid,/item,45/task,item/) on their V6/60 trucks, which is too bad because it's a nice system. Early systems used the Delco MAF (mass airflow sensor) which was known to be troublesome. Early ECMs were also problematic due to manufacturing problems. GM released new code that eliminated the MAF sensor as a fix. These systems used both a MAP and a MAF sensor.

There are some tuning packages for these systems. Look to Fiero and Camaro/Firebird systems. These were used on 2.8V6 and 3.1V6 engines in F-body cars and 2.8V6 Fiero. It looks good, and works well. Newer intakes such as the one from a 3.4V6 F-body will fit the heads, and are really nice. You can use the older electronics with the new intake. These ECMs have just as much flexibility as the TBI ones, and some applications have even more adjustments to both fuel and spark.

[86euro]

Going back to the throttle body and cable issue, I've got it figured out... for me anyway. I don't have a T.V. cable that needs to be hooked up (5 speed). Use a '96 U-van TB along with the throttle cable and cruise cable, they will mate up with the original gas pedal and cruise control actuator. I also got the breather tube and intake tube between the TB and MAF sensor because it looks like they will work well with an aftermarket intake tube/filter.

For hooking up a TV cable, a stud could be welded to the linkage in the correct location because the linkage is metal, not plastic. One of those universal TV cable brackets (from Jeg's, Summit, etc.) could be rigged up and bolted onto the 3400 cable mounting bracket.

Also, the way it is setup, the cables will be aimed up somewhat towards the hood. It looks like they may rub the underside of the hood liner but it should be OK.

[Tonglebeak]

I've been looking at the plenum and am wondering if I can reverse the TB lol

[Tonglebeak]

Just a question: do I really need a new downpipe? The exhaust manifold with my 2.8 has the center outlet, and the 3400 exhaust manifold I have has a center outlet as well. Seems to me they should bolt up?

[86euro]

The flange is completely different, and at a different angle. What is your downpipe from?

[Tonglebeak]

I don' t have any, other than the one already in my car LOL. I was told on 60v6 I'd need one from a 3100 Ciera...

[Tonglebeak]

Although after rereading a hybrid guide it says it'll need modified anyways. Great.

[86euro]

Although after rereading a hybrid guide it says it'll need modified anyways. Great.

What will? The down pipe? Don't use the Ciera 3100 manifold, looks pretty restrictive... and would still require modding the downpipe. Just use the center dump manifold that you have.
I've read that the 2.8 manifolds and crossover bolt right to the 3X00 top end, so there's always that option too.

[Tonglebeak]

Where'd you read that at? I recall something about the exhaust ports being shaped differently so flow will be highly restricted.

http://www.domesticcrew.com/660/hybrid.html

Says you need the 3100 version of the downpipe and it will need to be modified.

[Tonglebeak]

Got some guy willing to sell me a 3100 downpipe off a grandam, not sure if it'll work or not. I have too many goddamn projects to do with this car, LOL

[86euro]

Where'd you read that at? I recall something about the exhaust ports being shaped differently so flow will be highly restricted.

http://www.domesticcrew.com/660/hybrid.html

Says you need the 3100 version of the downpipe and it will need to be modified.

Restrictive, yes. But it will work in a pinch.

You can use any mani/downpipe combo you wish, but if you're going to switch to something other than stock, might as well use something that works well to begin with. The a-body version of the 3100 rear manifold is a joke.

[Tonglebeak]

Right, but I do already have the center dump, and that's all I intend on using. :)

[Tonglebeak]

Here's the downpipe pic: doesn't look to me like it'd bolt up at all :\

http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/2347/59108782al2.jpg

[86euro]

What is that from? If it does bolt to the flange on the center outlet manifold, it looks like it would fight for space that is occupied by the steering rack. But if the flange fits, an exhaust shop could fab up a downpipe utilizing it.

[Tonglebeak]

3100 grand prix is what the person says, with the center outlet.

[Tonglebeak]

Just bought the cam today...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=200301725411

Rockauto is about to get several hundred from me. Just trying to find a throttle cable from a 95 beretta, and trying to figure out the proper term for fpr-map-plenum hose so I can buy that...

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Looks good. You will want to use the 2.8 injectors and injector harness with that fuel rail. Also, the sensor that's still bolted to the TB is the tps sensor.

He cant use the 2.8 injectors. They are about 1 inch to short for the intake runner system.

Also, that fuel rail is toast. That peice that is half there, and not, thats the fuel line seat. Only half of it is there. That could mean a bad leak when you presureize the system.

I have not read this whole thread, but I have to add my concern here.

You would save time, and money, buy swapping in a 3x00 (see if you can find a 3600 from a buick rendezvous 2005+ that isnt drive by wire). You can do a engine swap, with the right tools, and knoledge over a weekend. Since your experience seems at the novice level, maybe 4 days. Doing all the parts you have, I bet that car is down for 2-3 weeks as you try to put it all together, getting it running, getting it running right, etc.

The swap you have in mind will net you roughly 170-175 HP, and you are still dealing with taking it apart, and hoping it goes together right, and seals well. Where as you buy a complete 3400,3500,3600, install it as a complete unit, with only taking the exhaust manifolds out for a porting. You will come out way ahead, with my HP, and a more reliable, streetable, and more fuel efficient engine.

You can run the 3x00 on your current ECM even. You just wont use all the sensors that the 3x00 has. You could, if you wanted, even find a 3800, and swap it in, get more TQ, and about the same HP, for the same amount of money, and the only thing you have to change there, besides the engine wiring harness, is the EEPROM.

[86euro]

The 2.8 injectors are dimensionally the same as the 3400 Multec I's. I do agree though that it would be much more worthwhile to do a motor swap. AFAIK, any 3500 will be drive by wire. You just buy an adapter to run a cable style TB.

Also, 3600 is a whole nother ball game.

[Tonglebeak]

In any case, what's wrong with the fuel rail exactly...someone on 60v6 showed a pic of theirs and it was the same. You're sure it's broken?

http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=347955&postcount=88

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Hmm, thats a weird one. Guess I am not use to the 3x00 fuel rails....

[Tonglebeak]

Lol yeah. All I need to figure out is the downpipe, TB cable (and mounting the TV cable as well as the cruise control cable), fuel fittings, and...that should do it I would hope..oh and the FPR-plenum-MAP hose. Perhaps vacuum hose with Ts would take care of that?

I'm probably going to replace my timing chain in the process.

[86euro]

I'm nearly sure I have a few extra of those vacuum hoses. Did your fuel rail come with lines on it? You just cut off the ends of both lines and attach your stock fittings with compression fittings.
You also will need the AC/dogbone bracket from a 3100 Abody or Wbody.

[Tonglebeak]

Sorry I don't have any fuel lines with it. The only thing I got was the rail itself and the injectors

Now I need a dogbone bracket? :(

[The Dark Side of Will]

(see if you can find a 3600 from a buick rendezvous 2005+ that isnt drive by wire).
You could, if you wanted, even find a 3800, and swap it in, get more TQ, and about the same HP, for the same amount of money, and the only thing you have to change there, besides the engine wiring harness, is the EEPROM.

The 3.6 is a completely different engine. I'm not sure I've ever even seen it called a 3600 "officially". It shares nothing with the pushrod engines and would be an enormously complex swap.

Even a 3800 isn't exactly bolt-in and go.

[Tonglebeak]

Guys i"m sorry, it's the top-end swap I'm doing. Do you know how much of a learning experience this will be for me? :)

86euro, I posted a list of things I'm wanting to buy over on 60v6 on the buy/sell forum...if there's anything I need to add to the list lemme know

[86euro]

Sorry I don't have any fuel lines with it. The only thing I got was the rail itself and the injectors

Now I need a dogbone bracket? :(

Yes, it's a common bracket though and is easy to identify. It's cast iron that is painted black, unlike the bare aluminum unit used on the gen2 motors. I found out they were different when gathering parts at the JY.

I'll dig through my various stashes of parts I have here at the house and at work. Do you have the newer timing cover yet? I know I have one of those. You will also need a matching PS pulley and reservoir, or a complete used pump.

[Tonglebeak]

Yes, it's a common bracket though and is easy to identify. It's cast iron that is painted black, unlike the bare aluminum unit used on the gen2 motors. I found out they were different when gathering parts at the JY.

I'll dig through my various stashes of parts I have here at the house and at work. Do you have the newer timing cover yet? I know I have one of those. You will also need a matching PS pulley and reservoir, or a complete used pump.

Yup, I have the timing cover as well as the complete pump+res+pulley

I just remembered I need something for the TV cable (you mentioned this earlier). Grrr

Also, how will I know what size of pushrods I need? feavs.com has measurements on it but I don't know if those will work for me as well or not...

[86euro]

I don't remember the length, but they need to be custom ordered last I knew.

[Tonglebeak]

How can I find out the proper length though? What exactly do I need to do to get the proper measurement?

[86euro]

Use an adjustable length pushrod checker to see what will work the best. You would need two different sizes of checker though, because of the major difference in length between the intake and exhaust pushrods.

[Tonglebeak]

Lol I'm completely clueless on that :(

[Tonglebeak]

Well anybody want a V8 cam that I have for sale? Apparently Crane reused grind numbers. -_-

[86euro]

Well anybody want a V8 cam that I have for sale? Apparently Crane reused grind numbers. -_-

What's the complete part#?

[Tonglebeak]

113904. Unfortunately I went just by the grind number of H-260-2 :(

[86euro]

Interesting, it seems the specs of that cam have recently been changed, it's a Truck Power though. What's the scoop on yours, is it new? Do you have the spec card with it?

[Tonglebeak]

I haven't torn through the box yet, but here's the spec page on crane's website:

http://cranecams.com/?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=113901&lvl=2&prt=5

Yes, it's new.

[86euro]

That link is for a #901, not a #904. If you have the #904, I was curious if you had the new grind, or the older one.

[Tonglebeak]

Whoops.

http://cranecams.com/index.php?show=browseParts&action=partSpec&partNumber=113904&lvl=2&prt=5

I guess the H-260-2 is the older grind.

EDIT: Ok, I just found the sheet. It has the H-256-2 grind sheet in it.

[86euro]

They will use the same grind numbers on different part# cams depending on what the application is. They may use the same grind on a cam for a 60* V6 that they do on a cam for a SBC, but it will be much more mild in a SBC, due to the much larger displacement. Anyway, I may be interested in the cam depending on how much you need out of it (I'm assuming your not going to buy a Chevy truck to put it in?). Also whether or not you have a new or old production cam, but there's probably not much difference between the two.

Edit: I see you posted you have the newer grind.

[Tonglebeak]

They will use the same grind numbers on different part# cams depending on what the application is. They may use the same grind on a cam for a 60* V6 that they do on a cam for a SBC, but it will be much more mild in a SBC, due to the much larger displacement. Anyway, I may be interested in the cam depending on how much you need out of it (I'm assuming your not going to buy a Chevy truck to put it in?). Also whether or not you have a new or old production cam, but there's probably not much difference between the two.

Edit: I see you posted you have the newer grind.

Yeah, the box shows H-260-2 on the side of it on a sticker, but the spec sheet shows the 256-2.

I'm looking to break even. $120+shipping if you're interested (what's your zip code?)

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Cant you get ahold of the Cam company and tell them they sent you the wrong one?

[Tonglebeak]

I got it from ebay and the seller said I could return it but I'm seeing if anyone else wants it first.

[Tonglebeak]

86euro, it should be $9.32 to ship it via UPS ground (assuming my digital scale is accurate). Might be slightly more after I put it in a box and stuff. If you're interested just lemme know....

[86euro]

Go ahead and send it back if they are willing to do that. I think that cam may be a little to mild for use in either of my trucks, but just let me know if there is a problem sending it back to the seller. It would be a better spare part for me to have, rather than you, know what I mean?

[Tonglebeak]

Yeah, I don't want it so like I said I was just seeing if you guys wanted it or not before I try to send it back. I'll probably try to send it back thursday or friday so if you want it before then lemme know. THanks!

[Tonglebeak]

downpipe is coming :)

[86euro]

Do you still have that cam, or did you send it back? I just wiped a lobe in my new Blazer:(

[turbokinetic]

Tonglebeak - how is this project coming along? Just curious?

David

[Tonglebeak]

It got sent backa long time ago :\

As for turbo, I still need a couple parts. Have been saving up for a house lately but I still want this to happen. ALmost have everything I need

[Tonglebeak]

Bah, I can't let this die :(

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-94-Buick-Century-3-1L-V6-Throttle-Body-w-Air-Flow_W0QQitemZ220357314746QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item334e51c8ba

Is this the "odd-ball" throttle body you were talking about 86? I don't even know how the hell that will bolt to my 3400 plenum lol.

[Duke George V]

Hey Tongle, I haven't been to the junkyard yet. I'm waiting on some money to come in so I can start on that bracket replacement. I haven't forgotten about you. I'll make sure I get the one for you.

[Tonglebeak]

I'm not terribly sure I have to have that bracket TBH. I can't remember the reason for it >:(

[86euro]

Bah, I can't let this die :(

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-94-Buick-Century-3-1L-V6-Throttle-Body-w-Air-Flow_W0QQitemZ220357314746QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotor s_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item334e51c8ba

Is this the "odd-ball" throttle body you were talking about 86? I don't even know how the hell that will bolt to my 3400 plenum lol.

That could be it, though it's hard to tell from that pic. The bolt pattern should be the same if it is.

[Tonglebeak]

I sent a message asking for a pic of the TB, staring straight down at it. Hopefully I'll get that

[Tonglebeak]

Never got a response, but it looks like someone else is selling one. Does this pic help 86?..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-Buick-Century-3-1L-Throttle-Body-with-Sensors_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem5ad306e4cfQQite mZ390087501007QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5f Accessories

[86euro]

I think the mounting is basically the same, but with an extra mounting bolt and some coolant passages that would not be needed. Not sure really.

The TB and cable from a 3100/3speed Beretta may be your best bet. There are so many different variations of throttle bodies, linkages and brackets, I cannot keep track of them anymore:help: