fuel qeustions 3300

[LordDurock]

okay me dad wants me to fix up this wreck (91 buick skylark 4door) it has the 3300
so i need to know how to check
the fuel perssuer
the injectors.
and i pray not the FP.

problems
wount start unless i use starting fuild.
wount crank vita key but if i jump the selionor it cranks just fine.

[notsoslimshady76]

There should be a shrader (sp) valve somewhere on the fuel rail. It looks like a bicycle tire stem valve.

The injectors, if you OHM test each injector you will know if they still work (odds are they won't since multi-tech injectors stink from the factory!!!! LOL)

The Fuel pump is the easiest. If you have somewhere around 40PSI and steady your pump is fine. Anything less than 30 the pump is probably bad, or your fuel filter is clogged.

WOW too many words sry

[CieraSL92]

Sweet, so starting fluid works so that rules out the Crank sensor and ignition system.

Doubtful ALL the injectors are bad, so OHM them. 11-16 is nominal. Note- My 3300 w/158k has loud injectors. It does not impede operation.

Check out the fuel pressure at the rail. Key on, engine off should be between 38-44PSI. Slightly lower while cranking.

If the car has been sitting, check out the fuel pump harness connectors for excessive corrosion. Test for voltage when the key is on and cranking.

About it not starting, defective ignition switch or badly maladjusted neutral safety switch.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

problems
wount start unless i use starting fuild..

Check the fuel pressure before you attempt to start it....then check it after you turn the key on....then check it while cranking.

1. Before it is started
2. When key is turned on
3. While Cranking.

Results, please

[LordDurock]

Check the fuel pressure before you attempt to start it....then check it after you turn the key on....then check it while cranking.

1. Before it is started
2. When key is turned on
3. While Cranking.

Results, please

i didnt want ot get into a lot of stuff with this car if i didnt have ot it was a wreck when we wought it and it sat for 12 year i want just wanted to make sure it ran. will do i go like a mounth to fix it for my gandpartens

[LordDurock]

so i can just put a like a tire pessare gauge on on that fuel stem to read the perrure right?

[LordDurock]

well im back i just truned on the key and pushin the nedle on the caped part with a srewdriver. not fuel came out. i put a gallon of gas in the car in case if was out of gas. but its parked on a hill right now do i dont know if helped any.

how much gas should i go buy? 3 gallons sounds good

[Tuddi]

...how much gas should i go buy? 3 gallons sounds good

With today's prices on gasoline you should fill it up...

3 gallons should be enough.... depending on how steep the hill is.

What you could do to save you the trip to buy the gas, is to loosen one of the gas-lines, put your mouth to it and suck (don't swallow). If you get no gasoline, you need to put more on the tank (or the line is broken after the tank). If you do get gasoline, the pump is not working for some reason (assuming this is an electric pump, the problem could be anywhere). You could also loosen the line, put the end of it into a bottle and switch on. If the gasoline flows, the problem is somewhere after where you loosened the line.

[LordDurock]

With today's prices on gasoline you should fill it up...

3 gallons should be enough.... depending on how steep the hill is.

What you could do to save you the trip to buy the gas, is to loosen one of the gas-lines, put your mouth to it and suck (don't swallow). If you get no gasoline, you need to put more on the tank (or the line is broken after the tank). If you do get gasoline, the pump is not working for some reason (assuming this is an electric pump, the problem could be anywhere). You could also loosen the line, put the end of it into a bottle and switch on. If the gasoline flows, the problem is somewhere after where you loosened the line.

dont want to fill her up theres no need, and it one of thouse safty tanks.................err can realy do that. i want ot get enough en there to 1 have gas and to let the pump sock in gas because ther might be fuel deposied build up (like if you let a carb sit with gas in it) not makeing the pimp work. and towmrow i will tow the car to the from of me house and check the leads on cold pavment not soggy dirt.

[CieraSL92]

Well.. when my cars out of gas, the pump is much louder and has a whine to it. Both while priming and trying to start. Have someone turn the key on, if you hear it make a noise (it should, even if its out of fuel) then its not pickin it up. If no noise, problem is electrical or defective pump.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

so i can just put a like a tire pessare gauge on on that fuel stem to read the perrure right?

Yes, or a R-12 AC gauge...that screws into it....even those cheap-ie R-12 gauges will work.

At least on the 3.8 motor, that is what I used....hence, unless they changed the port, it should work fine.

[LordDurock]

okay i got more to add to this story i went to try and crank this 3300 again and the temp light comes on when i trun the key.........so could this car be say in too hot (it liek 30F out side) and not want to start or crank? if so were sould i start checking.

on a side note this is going to be rated PG-13
FUCKING COMPUTER CARS..............I JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE POWER TO THE DIS AND USE A SREW DRIVER SO I CAN LIMP HOME.................


okay i fell better

[Tuddi]

on a side note this is going to be rated PG-13

Ditto!

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

....temp light comes on


ON 88 Beretta, 2.6-V6, it would mean the single wire from the block-temp-sender has been grounded somewhere...or the block-temp-sensor has grounded out...ohm meter test.

On older vehicles I have worked on, there are two temp circuits:

1. Computer - Three wires
2. Idiot Light - One wire

Hence, find the single wire, and unplug it, if you choose...its only an idiot light, on the vehicles I have worked on....not the computer circuit.


COMPUTER CARS

Most all of the time....I LOVE THEM....but you have to learn some stuff....and get the service manual

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

the temp light comes on when i trun the key


Btw, on 88 Beretta....that's what its suppose to do....light up when key is in "start" mode

[LordDurock]

.
Most all of the time....I LOVE THEM....but you have to learn some stuff....and get the service manual

me two but things break at the worst times thats when i care. ive been with my dad when we had fuel lines melt (diesel), starter die, wiring shorts (truck had no joke 750,000 on it) and all we wanted to so was get home. home being 3 states away. mechnal stuff and a standered trany got us home 90% of the time.

[Tuddi]

Computers and cars should be kept apart.... unless people are playing some computer car-game.

Being up on a mountain in a snowstorm, having a puter failure, can easily result in one's life being terminated. Simple mechanics is the way cars should be... but simple mechanics are also welcome to evolve into better performance, better fuel technology etc....

I am sure that computer controlled cars (never had one) are really really good when they work, but it's when they don't work properly, that will always be a problem.

[LordDurock]

okay i got in up in my shop (the growth (grass) on this car is bad but every thing else looks like new)

okay i found the 4 prong plug that goes into the fuel tank (i asume thats the pump feeds) there no corstion just shiny metal)
i want t test that iom getting power to the pump first so what leads do i test?

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

4 prong plug that goes into the fuel tank....so what leads do i test?

The leads that DON"T go to the fuel sender....maybe the larger diameter wires....I ain't going to guess...but if you had a volt meter, you could see if power is being sent to fuel tank.


I suggest getting one of these for R-12...cheap one, and check pressure...

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

i want t test that iom getting power to the pump

Have someone turn the key to on position...and listen to the tank...

[dcjredline]

Sounds like a good investment would be to get yourself a service manual. That will list all these things your looking for without the wait of posting and getting a reply. They are only $17 and will prolly cover all the A-bodies in that year range.

[LordDurock]

okay got the tank out...........FUN :rolleyes:. got the pump and fuel level sender out. the pump is dead, sezed up or something. With my test lights i hocked it to the battery the test light lights up but the pump is not working looks like i need a new one.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

....pump is not working looks like i need a new one.

Fuel Pump
For vehicle: 1991 BUICK SKYLARK V6 3.3 Liter FI

$54.99 to $133.99 at Advance

Considering it has sat a long time...not surprised....

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

service manual...only $17.

GM Shop Manual....those tend to suck big time....

Service Manuals, Owner Manuals, Wiring Diagrams, Service Bulletins ...
Factory OE service/shop/owner manuals for Ford, GM, Honda, Isuzu, Suzuki, KIA, and Subaru brand automobiles, and service publications for some other brands. (www.helminc.com/)

1991 Skylark Shop Manual
Price: $105.00 In Stock

eBay:

1991 Buick Skylark FACTORY Shop Manual! (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=1991+Skylark+Shop+Manual&category0=)

$16.95

[Tuddi]

Here is the pump you want. Nothing with having the pump down in the tank kind of crap. This is a pump you can mount in the engine bay in plain view and easy to access.

The price? Looks as if you can decide that part yourself (it's a "NO RESERVE AUCTION" ... normal price for this pump is over 100 bucks. If I was you, I'd bid on it immediately.

One dollar would be a generous offer... and since there's less than 3 day's left of the auction, you might actually win it for less than 10 bucks (plus shipping).

http://tinyurl.com/2eqa7a

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Here is the pump you want.




Maximum Pressure Is 7 PSI

Naw...need 40psi min

[LordDurock]

yea looks like im goingto buy a new one from napa 69 bucks........if the 50 50 alcohal gas mix doenst free up the grim in 3 days. it cold here but i have a shop and hopely next summer i'll have the concert pad done and ui have a nice 2 post lift instailed :D (500 bucks on Ebay for a 90's worth sold though SnapOn tools lift)

[Tuddi]

Maximum Pressure Is 7 PSI

Naw...need 40psi min

Damn... you are right. Way too low pressure. Thanks for eyeing the obvious!

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

if the 50 50 alcohal gas mix doenst free up the grim in 3 day

Penny Wise....Pound Foolish....

At that concentration, it (alcohol) may eat away at pump's o-rings.....at some point in time, fuel pump manufactures got serious and started putting in right o-rings for alcohol based fuel.

But, there is a difference between E10 & E85 alcohol based fuels...E85 likes to eat away at vehicles that were not designed for it.

Suggestion - Like Mr. GoodWrench say, "you can pay me now, or pay more later" :->>

[LordDurock]

should be just fine. and a hell of a lot better then acatone. i just this method on a lot of things given weeks it well mess it up fro sure but a couple days dont think so. right now it had about 24 hours i'll give it a nougher 24 if it dost start working to night.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

should be just fine. and a hell of a lot better then acatone.


RE: Cleaning fuel pump on vehicle that has sat for years (91 SkyLark)


Problem is, unless you are selling this to "Slick Willey's AutoPlaza," I would never attempt to resuscitate a stuck electric-fuel pump located within a fuel tank, unless the vehicle was going to be driven locally only.

Heads up, my friend in Denver, Co ran his fuel tank dry...and within several days, it shot craps.

Maybe on a TBI/Carb pump, you might luck out...but that pump must put out 40 psi...or the vehicle will not run right....TBI/Carb require about 10 psi/4psi....

Hence, if the vehicle is going to be one of your family's "road runner," fork over the bucks; otherwise, its going to fail sooner or later...and will tick off someone in the family.

[LordDurock]

RE: Cleaning fuel pump on vehicle that has sat for years (91 SkyLark)


Problem is, unless you are selling this to "Slick Willey's AutoPlaza," I would never attempt to resuscitate a stuck electric-fuel pump located within a fuel tank, unless the vehicle was going to be driven locally only.

Heads up, my friend in Denver, Co ran his fuel tank dry...and within several days, it shot craps.

Maybe on a TBI/Carb pump, you might luck out...but that pump must put out 40 psi...or the vehicle will not run right....TBI/Carb require about 10 psi/4psi....

Hence, if the vehicle is going to be one of your family's "road runner," fork over the bucks; otherwise, its going to fail sooner or later...and will tick off someone in the family.

everything fails soon of latter if it was me i would fork over the cash and do but my dad want to have me do this. on a side not i've busted free many eletice motors that still work to this day. but we'll see. in a couple hours when i get home

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

....but we'll see. in a couple hours

On that 88 Beretta ($200.00 vehicle), since I found Cam-Gear fragments (nylon) in the oil pan, I took off that GM-2.8 motor timing cover.

Well, since someone did replace timing set, some 30,000+ miles ago, and since I have it tore down now (waiting on a part), I could:

1. Not put in new timing set: $30.00
2. Not put in new water pump: $30.00

Since everything on this 88 Beretta is good to go another 100,000, and since most likely water pump was replaced when last timing set was put in, should I

1. Save $60.00 and not put in timing set & water pump
2. Spend the money?

Hey, timing set & water pump appear to be good, but in say two months, will I be "talking" to the water pump like this, "Go ahead, make my day," when I'm away from home?

Hey, if its going to be a local ride...and your labor is cheap...that's OK.

[CieraSL92]

I wouldn't put a pump that had failed back in even if it randomly started working again. Who wants to be underneath the car when its -10 changing the pump again?

Tomato tomato though dude, your car. Let us know if it works again.

[LordDurock]

and update for you all i got a new napa fule pump and it looks like it going in to night or tomarow.........(it like 30 in day over here right now thank god for propain)

the old one whas total seized. but a funny thing about e motors if you can break them free they work for a rather long time that being about 3 years.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

....new napa fule pump....




if you can break them free they work for a rather long time that being about 3 years.

It's mainly those O-Rings inside (unless bushings are going)...once those O-Rings leak; bye-bye...for a local ride OK...but I do alot of longer distance driving...and it ain't worth the PIA when it shoots craps.

[LordDurock]

okay after some fun she runs very well (i was having an intake back fire from poor injector spray. so i took the MAF off and it ran lean enough not to back fire and finnal cleaned up)

now for bending some sheet metal and i'll have a noughter working car. with low miles.

[CieraSL92]

So you left the maf off and the hole for it is open? If that's the case, that will set a code and more likely than not your fail emissions.. Hesitation and poor WOT performance too..

It's also a great spot for dust and leaves etc to come in.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

okay after some fun she runs very well


Change the Oil/Filter soon, then at 1,000 miles later...

[LordDurock]

So you left the maf off and the hole for it is open? If that's the case, that will set a code and more likely than not your fail emissions.. Hesitation and poor WOT performance too..

It's also a great spot for dust and leaves etc to come in.

no i put it back on after i let it run to 3 minnits becuase the MAF was telling the comp to spray the normal amount of gas out of a gumbed up in jector. so i was haveing (best my guess) a puddle of gas on a pistion and when i came around again for its nexted intake stroke the gas would still be there burning and i would get and intake back fire. buy leaning it out i coud let the car run and get ride of the back fire tell the injectors cleaned up. after that MAF went back on. and no more intake back fires. and smoth running car.