Front brake upgrades

[skalor]

Well, the Ciera will be undergoing some more upgrades over the winter and I wanted to see if anyone had any input on front brake upgrades. I know we can use the U-body front brakes if we switch spindles, but I think there is something better out there. I really would like to see some 12" brakes on the front but I don't know if it's possible using existing GM components. I know there are 12" rotors from an Intrigue that will go right on, but finding a caliper that will work is the problem.

[LordDurock]

i have no idea but what az ja2 upgrade on the front...................arint thouse big breakes but they havea diffrint wheel bearing and stuff

[dcjredline]

I think your wasting money on doing any upgrades to these cars! Why have bigger brakes? Cause you drive so fast. Youll be going through pads quicker and spending more money on gas and breaking things faster like transmissions and suspension parts "but you will get an education and encounter a loss of revenue when its all over.Imho, a great waste of time/money..."

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Obviously this IS NOT my opinion I was just havin fun.

I thought that the W's brakes were pretty compatible to the A's. I would say start with the W's and see what you find.

[LordDurock]

well with that skalors doing with his car.......like any drag car i recomenmend brake upgades when you double your cars power and again every 200-300hp gain. if your above 400hp.

but a good start would be cerminc pads

[86euro]

Well, if an Intrigue rotor is a possibility, I would look at the calipers from the same car as a possibility too. With some careful measuring, a pair of mounting brackets could machined to mount the caliper to the A spindle. It might also be necessary to machine/grind/modify the spindle itself.

[Tuddi]

Skalor... after reading about what your car can do, we all know that you really don't need any disk upgrade on your car.

The most obvious thing you need, is found behind the shuttle in this picture. Now THAT should be able to slow you down when the need is there.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/shuttle-parachute.jpg

[skalor]

Well, if an Intrigue rotor is a possibility, I would look at the calipers from the same car as a possibility too. With some careful measuring, a pair of mounting brackets could machined to mount the caliper to the A spindle. It might also be necessary to machine/grind/modify the spindle itself.
This is probably exactly what's going to happen. Right now, I'm thinking of an adapter plate that will mount a different caliper to the A-body spindle. I have full machine shop where I work so getting parts made it not a problem. When I do find a solution I'll post the drawings for anyone else that might want to do the same thing. :)

[Jr's3800]

When you do your upgrade you might consider a set of Slotted Rotors...:)

[86euro]

This is probably exactly what's going to happen. Right now, I'm thinking of an adapter plate that will mount a different caliper to the A-body spindle. I have full machine shop where I work so getting parts made it not a problem. When I do find a solution I'll post the drawings for anyone else that might want to do the same thing. :)

When you get things figured out and if you're willing to make a second pair, I'll be first in line to buy a set;)

[Tonglebeak]

If you happen to make a set of brackets for the rear discs of a 6000 and if you're willing to make a pair, I'll be first in line to buy a set;)

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

I have been thinking, you might be able to use the rear mounting bracket from a 94-97 W-body. That would give you 11.5 or 12 (dont remember) out back. They are also pretty reliable, thats one of the first upgrades to a 88-93 w-body there is.

The reason I am thinking that they are the same on mounting brackets, is because they use they some bolt pattern, and if memory is serving me correctly, they also have the same hub mounting style/pattern. The only problem I can think of is the rims rubbing against the caliper (been there, dont that) but bigger tires is also a progression of HP isnt is?? Gotta transfer all that big HP to the ground some how...

[86euro]

I have been thinking, you might be able to use the rear mounting bracket from a 94-97 W-body. That would give you 11.5 or 12 (dont remember) out back. They are also pretty reliable, thats one of the first upgrades to a 88-93 w-body there is.

The reason I am thinking that they are the same on mounting brackets, is because they use they some bolt pattern, and if memory is serving me correctly, they also have the same hub mounting style/pattern. The only problem I can think of is the rims rubbing against the caliper (been there, dont that) but bigger tires is also a progression of HP isnt is?? Gotta transfer all that big HP to the ground some how...

For the life of me I can't ever remember to look at these cars when I go to the yards. I also didn't realize the brakes were improved in '94. I do remember though that I hated the brakes on my '93 Z34, so that might be why I never think about the W-body brakes. It would open up a lot of possibilities if the mounting pattern was the same.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Actually, they were improved in 93, but some cars got improved, and others didnt. I sometimes cant figure out GM LOL...

[skalor]

Bump for anyone that has any ideas. I just got my car running again from rebuilding the transmission and I realize that the brakes are just so miserably undersized. I'm thinking of using a W-body spindle so that I can use W-body brakes. I have an '04 Grand Prix Comp G so I'm going to take some measurements to see if they are usable.

[Electra_T_Type]

I was thinking maybe fullsize C/H car parts, as out JA2 brakes are just the same pieces as the fullsize cars Some LeSabre and Bonneville people use a 92+ C/H body spindle and brakes as they are 12" (iirc) than use a hybrid axle using the original inners with the donar car outter mated to it.

[Zaloryan]

I seriously think Skalor's Ciera should be a rocket booster...

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'm thinking of using a W-body spindle so that I can use W-body brakes. I have an '04 Grand Prix Comp G so I'm going to take some measurements to see if they are usable.

The camber with a W-body spindle would be WAY off, as would the outer tie rod end location. You'd end up with heinous bump-steer. The control arms will also need to be re-engineered to accept W-body ball joints.


I was thinking maybe fullsize C/H car parts, as out JA2 brakes are just the same pieces as the fullsize cars Some LeSabre and Bonneville people use a 92+ C/H body spindle and brakes as they are 12" (iirc) than use a hybrid axle using the original inners with the donar car outter mated to it.

I think that the C/H knuckles use a very different ball joint attachment than the A-bodies do. What's wrong with the U-body van brakes? They go over 11, right? That may not sound like much when there are a lot of platforms out there for which 13"+ brakes are available, but it really is enough for good strong braking performance.

For example, My dad's Suburban at 6000# capable of towing a lot more than that has 12.75" front brakes, and they're quite adequate.

[skalor]

I'm planning on attending an HPDE event or two this year and I would like it to make more than one lap before my brakes catch on fire. :D I may be stuck with the U-body brakes but I honestly don't think they are adequate enough for my setup. We put Corvette brakes on my brother's stick ecotec Alero. Now, that think has some stopping power. :D

[skalor]

Just for reference:
A-body JA2 rotor - 10.25" X 1"
U-body rotor - 11" X 1.25"

[a1veedubber]

I'm planning on attending an HPDE event or two this year and I would like it to make more than one lap before my brakes catch on fire. :D I may be stuck with the U-body brakes but I honestly don't think they are adequate enough for my setup. We put Corvette brakes on my brother's stick ecotec Alero. Now, that think has some stopping power. :D

I had no idea what HPDE was until I just googled it.........awesome! I would love to do something like that, although I dont think my 86 Coupe is up to the task till I ditch the 2.5.........
That Alero sounds awesome! You fellows have some pretty nice machinery!!

[Jet]

Staying within the U-body braking platform, perhaps maximizing what is available is your best bet. High-quality, thicker rotors, ceramic pads, ducting to cool the brakes, higher DOT brake fluid, bigger diameter wheel cylinders, heavy-duty shoes, etc. It may not be as exotic, but effectiveness is what it's all about. Since the U-body brake system is from a van, there are bound to be heavy-duty pieces out there waiting to be utilized; a bit of research online (RockAuto.com) might be the way to go.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'm planning on attending an HPDE event or two this year and I would like it to make more than one lap before my brakes catch on fire. :D I may be stuck with the U-body brakes but I honestly don't think they are adequate enough for my setup. We put Corvette brakes on my brother's stick ecotec Alero. Now, that think has some stopping power. :D

If you're talking C5 brakes, those are 12.75 x 1.25. However, Corvettes have aluminum calipers and Aleros have aluminum knuckles.

Did you have to fab a caliper adapter or did it all bolt together? I would expect that you'd need brackets...

I'm the one who discovered a few years ago that LS1 F-body 12" brakes with calipers could bolt right on to the aluminum W-body knuckles. I haven't played with Corvette calipers, but was under the impression they were dimensinally identical to F-body calipers.

One bad point about iron knuckles is that they weigh a LOT. The Fiero uses the equivalent of JA1 front brakes at all four corners with aluminum calipers. Upgrading to A-body JA2 front brakes in the rear adds 13 POUNDS of unsprung weight per side.

I'd like to adapt W-body knuckles and F-body brakes to the rear of a Fiero. That would be tough for an A-body, though. I can relocate the toe link on a Fiero... can't relocate the steering rack in an A-body.

[cutlassburnin]

Last summer I went with ceramic pads and thicker ( thinner venting ) rotors from Brembo up front and I did see some improvement. Still no warping or wear too.

[skalor]

If you're talking C5 brakes, those are 12.75 x 1.25. However, Corvettes have aluminum calipers and Aleros have aluminum knuckles.

Did you have to fab a caliper adapter or did it all bolt together? I would expect that you'd need brackets...

I'm the one who discovered a few years ago that LS1 F-body 12" brakes with calipers could bolt right on to the aluminum W-body knuckles. I haven't played with Corvette calipers, but was under the impression they were dimensinally identical to F-body calipers.

One bad point about iron knuckles is that they weigh a LOT. The Fiero uses the equivalent of JA1 front brakes at all four corners with aluminum calipers. Upgrading to A-body JA2 front brakes in the rear adds 13 POUNDS of unsprung weight per side.

I'd like to adapt W-body knuckles and F-body brakes to the rear of a Fiero. That would be tough for an A-body, though. I can relocate the toe link on a Fiero... can't relocate the steering rack in an A-body.

Yes, I'm referring to C5 brakes. The caliper bracket bolt pattern is dimensionally the same as F-bodies. They use different bolt sizes I believe but that's not really an issue. We figures it would work when I saw that the W-body guys were swapping in N-body brakes for the smaller rotor for less rotational weight. Put two and two together and you get the lightest(stick ecotec) N-body made with C5 brakes.

Yeah, I was also looking to drop some unsprung weight off the assembly and adding bigger iron calipers is not really what I was looking to do.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Some of the W-body guys are also using F-Body brakes..