question. radiator issues

[CamoDeafie]

has anyone found that the Bars Aluminum liquid leak stopper plugged up the overflow tank's line? cause the line is emtpy, it doesnt have fluid going through, the coolant is in the tank and its not going down, YET the damn radiator leak is still going on...I miht have to get a friend to bring some tools so i can try putting water through the upper radiator hose and see what happens...since there isnt any other place where i can put coolant in other than the overflow tank..the cap on the rad itself doesnt want to come off; unless theres a special trick to it? right now its parked in front of the book store....I was wondering hwy the idiot light kept coming on....till i noticed the trail of coolant....knew it was leaking....checked overflow tank, its still full, but is it possible that the stop leak itself just plugged THAT port on the bottom of it? looks like i need to replace the Rad as soon as possible dammit. lol.

[CamoDeafie]

welp. opened the upper rad hose; no steam, no fluid.... poured tap water from a jug in and stop leak , and started to see steam, reinstalled rad hose; refilled jug; opened rad hose; scalded my left hand.... whoops. poureda bit more, reinstalled rad hose; left it to cool; drove it 20 miles to parents since mum's a RN; lol. def need replace rad; and coolant flush. hm... exp=harsh teacher :)

[Prospeeder]

well U have to push down firmly and turn the cap counter clockwise. The system on these cars arnt designed like that to be filled from the overflow. You have to fill the radiator, You can pull the line off and it wont empty it. Heres how that overflow works. The cap maintains pressure, as the coolant heats up, it expands, and excess is "pushed" into the overflow. when you stop and let it cool. The coolant contracts, and a vacuum is formed, the vacuum draws coolant from the overflow to fill the system. You should NEVER put stopleak into the overflow, just the radiator itself. Remove the overflow, clean it and replace the little hose. And fix the leak, it sounds too big for stop leak to work unfortuantly.

[CamoDeafie]

how the hell did i not notice i said 120 miles....but its only 20 miles...>.< lol. yeah i figured that if the leak is too big for Bar's stop leak thing; then i'm in serious need of replacing the Rad or whatever it is....nto sure, did the F-bodies also share radiator mounting points? if so, it might make it cheaper for me to get a F-body radiator..being that its extra large cooling.....

[86euro]

The F-body uses basically the same size radiator, only difference might be a thicker core on V8/AC models. I do not know exactly how close in size they are... but I do have an A-body radiator sitting around as well as a radiator-less F-body, lol. I'll see if it fits.

[turbokinetic]

Wait till it cools off, then push down HARD on the radiator cap while turning it "counter-clockwise." There will be a position where you can let off from pressing down; and the cap will come off.

Anytime there is a visible leak in the system, you MUST replace the coolant directly into the radiator (or through the hose like you did). The coolant recovery tank is only to replace seepage or small losses that don't prevent the systen from developing a vacuum and drawing the coolant back into the system.

Sorry you got your arm scorched!!!!

[CamoDeafie]

indeed. learned my lesson the hard way. should i trust a junkyard radiator? I found a whole bunch of them for the A_body series; ranging from 1 5/8" thick to v6 rads with oil coolers..from $50 to $80....the $50 ones are for the 4 cyl with the smaller size (1 5/8" thick) might be why the 82 ciera had alot roomier engine bay compared to the other 2 v6 cars i've owned...(they also list the 1 5/8 thick rad for a 3.8L equipped and 3.0L equipped A-car)

EDIT: via the pick-a-part website's part search. this same site cannot find anything related to wheels though, but thats immaterial at the time; the radiator is more important.....I wonder, were all the 1982+ rads aluminum, or were there some copper tubed ones in the first runs? I will have pictures of the radiator and the fan set up soon! am i correct in thinking that the radiator looking thing in front of the actual radiator is for the AC condenser?

[turbokinetic]

From the front of the car moving in towards the engine, the air hits the A/C condenser, then the engine coolant radiator, then the puller-style cooling fan.

Any non-leaking A-car radiator will work great for a 4-cyl car. The aluminum ones seem to hold up better, but the copper ones are more repairable.

They should all fit interchangably from any year A-car with any engine option - but make sure the trans oil cooler hookups are on the correct end of the radiator for your application.

Take care!
David

[CamoDeafie]

alrighty. i dont think the twin fan set up's shroud is original to this radiator..O.o but it works so who am i to complain lol...

[Prospeeder]

Napa NR 738 is the heavy duty one with a/c is 50 bucks cheaper than the No ac light duty version. I list it here as 120 bucks. so count on it being ten bucks higher or lower any where else

[CamoDeafie]

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/CamoDeafie/cars/DSCN2194.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/CamoDeafie/cars/DSCN2195.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/CamoDeafie/cars/DSCN2196.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/CamoDeafie/cars/DSCN2197.jpg

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t70/CamoDeafie/cars/DSCN2198.jpg

pics of the fan set up; and where the radiator fluid is coming from..not sure if its really visible; one thing that got my eye is the big silver disc on one of the bolts....

[mechanizeddeath]

That washer looks awfully big and out of place. Wonder what it is there for?

I also see crimp type connectors on the fan wires. I don't mind them for interior use as they stay out of the elements, but in this location I suggest cutting them off and soldering the wires, before sealing them with waterproof heat shrink tubing. It looks like a recent repair and they'll probably be fine for years, but if you're going to pull everything anyway you may as well do it right.

[CamoDeafie]

it looks like its there to keep the bottom of the shroud set up from rattling..i think i'll also get a fan shroud and fan motor from the yards too one that actually fits the damn radiator lol. there seems to be a few different sizes of rads for the A-cars...26" wide, 17" wide, 13 high, 16 high, 17 high, 1" thick, 1 5/8" thick, with or without AT cooler lines, with or without AC lines, and so on....hmm.

[turbokinetic]

it looks like its there to keep the bottom of the shroud set up from rattling..i think i'll also get a fan shroud and fan motor from the yards too one that actually fits the damn radiator lol. there seems to be a few different sizes of rads for the A-cars...26" wide, 17" wide, 13 high, 16 high, 17 high, 1" thick, 1 5/8" thick, with or without AT cooler lines, with or without AC lines, and so on....hmm.

Yeah that fan setup looks like what I've seen on Chryslers at the JY.

If you do get a salvage yard radiator - you can get all the fan hardware that you'll need to get it back right. I would not be surprised if that jerry-rigged fan didn't somehow rub on the radiator and make a hole in it. :(

I'm not sure where your radiator sizes came from, and I can't deny there are multiple lengths and widths, BUT I have never seen A-car radiators that differ other than thickness and cooler porting. I haven't seen them all - but your chances of finding a slavage yard radiator that fits are very high even if it looks somewhat different.

[CamoDeafie]

well this is from the website's search...www.pickapart.net it seems that there are specific sizes available..might be because of wagons, might be because of engine size, might be because of AC or no AC...?

[turbokinetic]

Looking at your pictures again, the radiator looks somewhat new. I think your best course of action now woule be to take that fan out and get a closer look at the radiator, and pinpoint the exact leak spot.

You need to see it may just be a loose hose clamp. If the radiator is not corroded out, and the fan rubbed a hole in it, someone can solder it since it is copper.

That fan is definately a horrible choice. It does not fit against the radiator properly and appears to have a large gap to allow air to bypass it. Also it is "trapped" against the radiator by the washers at the bottom (those large silver discs). That means it can rub against the radiator since the fan is not actually secured to the car's frame at the bottom.

[CamoDeafie]

alrighty i've got a day to do so...hey what soldering rod is best? I DO have a propane torch LOL.

[turbokinetic]

Use a 60/40 lead-tin alloy. Use plumbing solder flux (looks like grease). do NOT use "lead-free" solder.

Polish the damaged area carefully to clean copper before attempting to solder it.

If the radiator is leaking anywhere near the end caps (where the cooling tubes go into the end tanks) it is not repairable.

[CamoDeafie]

alrighty. there's a good scrap metal place nearby that will pay a sum of $ for the copper radiater after I clean it up; if it is leaking from the end caps...if it isnt; then it is repairable. that there are a bunch of rads for $50 that fits the A-car should be good...I will also check to see if the fans from them also work. I might want to get the pusher fan from the 3100 cars if so provided; as I think that was the best set up...had more room between rad and engine..noticed that the "crossover" is actualy cross-under lol....might be easier to do a turbo set up thats not in the same place as the V6 ones...

[turbokinetic]

Good luck with the radiator repairs. Just be sure to clean it well, pinch closed the hole before soldering, and use as little solder as possible.

My very first turbo setup had a front downpipe that I made from an Iron Duke exhaust system. It worked but was really restrictive for the 2.8 turbo.

I'm pretty sure the 4.3 diesel turbo will also require a front downpipe.

[CamoDeafie]

i'm still worried about the 3 speed auto being able to take the boosted power level...I've been trying to find a COMPLETE, ie, with Ignition and cover and both overhead cams; a QUAD DOHC in either the HO or the TwinCam form engine....as I personally think a 160hp/155tq-180hp/160tq would move the car much quicker than the 92hp/130tq engine....

[turbokinetic]

i'm still worried about the 3 speed auto being able to take the boosted power level..

It won't.

It would be just as easy to put in a Series II 3800 with over 200 HP and 200 LbFt. :)

[CamoDeafie]

question. how heavy is the Quad DOHC or Twin Cam compared to the Iron duke and the 3800? I'd like to try to keep the weight as close to the same as possible (2760 pounds)

[CamoDeafie]

got the radiator for a 1986 Ciera vin x 2.8 with AT oil cooler on same side...much to my surprise, its also copper/brass, ahs NO leak.....awesome. looks to be in fairly good condition; and replaced the old radiator....easy peasy. remove dogbone mount on rad support, remove plastic rad retainer off rad support frame, remove fan, (by the way, the fan came out after unscrewing only 2 bolts....) turns out the fan was jerry rigged to a pink wire on the back, on a junction block on the cylinder head, on the driver's side....ground was attached to a bracket bolt; i unplugged the connector holding hte pink wire, then started the engine; well. engine didnt want to start....hmmm. plugged it back in after removing the white wire; it started right up....holy shit. this musta been one of the ECM pink wires :eek: so ditched the fan set up; removed the AC compressor, that was more dramatic than the AT cooler's line fittings lol....one of the aluminum lines had been sawed to a point, so that made it less of a hassle to cut the other side's aluminum tubing....will be either selling the AC condensor, or scrappign it along with the fan shroud and the old radiator....looking for a radiator fan for under $25 shipped.....the yard up in Woodburn wanted $35 for it...the yard in dallas, i just came back from it...no rad fan...but but but, there's the 84 ciera holiday coupe i had seen before...AUFGHEAKAJDIAJIPWEJIPJDSKDM. no rad, no fan, no grille, no wheels, but otherwise complete. hmmm 3.0 engine, what appears to be a QUADJET intake manifold....but i know the 3.0s used a Rochester Dualjet...so i will definitely look again and make sure that its 2bbl not 4bbl like the QUad...if it IS a 4bbl..well, thinking to just yank the whole damn engine since it looks much nicer and cleaner than the 82 ciera's 3.0 engine lol. if i have space, or a place to store, i;d definitely try to "rescue" it a la turbokinetic......the rest of the car looks to be in much better shape :(

[turbokinetic]

Glad you got the radiator repalced. That will make it safer to drive.

I could send you a fan but the shipping would cost more than a fan from a salvage yard near you!!!!!

Do yourself a favor, no matter what you think at this time - don't lose or destroy the A/C compressor, condenser, or brackets. There may very well be a day you decide to re-install it! Just trust me on that one. :)

David

[CamoDeafie]

just the lines that are damaged. i still have the rest :) lol........think i should ask them to sell me the engine from the 84 ciera anyways?

[turbokinetic]

If you plan to build up a performance engine you might want to buy it.

[Doug B.]

I would avoid quad-4 engines like the plague. They run strong when they run, but the head and head gasket was a bit of a POS design, and if anything happens to cam timing they bend all the valves. Very expensive engine to try to keep running well, especially if you flog it.

Edit- to clarify, the 4 valve dohc engines are junk.. the iron duke is a great engine for what it is, though some had head cracking issues.

[turbokinetic]

I would avoid quad-4 engines like the plague. ....( the 4 valve dohc engines).....

They are strong when they run, and expensive when they don't. And most of the time.... they are expensive...

David

[CamoDeafie]

didnt stop a bunch of guys from putting them into hot rods since the cam towers resemble the Offy 4s.....apaprently theres also a 4bbl sidedraft carb manifold for the Quad-4s lol. I'm still thinking to put in a buick v6 build of some sort...either the 84 3.0 (theres 3 of them so far) or 85 distributor SFI engine, or LG3 or LN3 or L27 or even L36 lol...

but anyways back to topic; online search says $50 for whole damn fan, motor, shroud assembly, for 83-86, only the motor with fan for $45...one yard wants $35, I havent gone to the other yard where the XC is; hopefully the XC or the Buick century can offer a fan assembly at a more reasonable price....