transmission maintanance

[ochy38]

so i plan on changing the fluid in my transmission come spring, but i just had a question for those who have more insight then i do... would it be a good idea to add some of the lucas or seafoam transmission conditioner stuff in the meantime? i obviously wouldnt overfill the thing just curious as to your thoughts.. its the original fluid btw

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Wow, not sure about changing that fluid if its the original stuff. That kinda scares me...

[notsoslimshady76]

here's my advice that worked for my 4T60.

Drop the pan and change the filter. Refill the transmission with half new/half old.

A couple weeks later, do the same (it should look about as dirty as the first drop). You don't need to change the filter

A week or so later ~100 miles do it again and change all the fluid.
Maybe change the filter? only if you want to

Its a pain in the butt, and will cost more, but I'm fairly certain it won't kill the transmission.

I never bother with Lucas and all the stuff. I'm sure it works, but I want my transmission to shift the same regardless of an additive.

[turbokinetic]

Here's my advice on this. Take it or leave it; but note well I have rebuilt, repaired, modified and diagnosed tranamissions in the automotive and off-highway fields for 15 years, and provide training for tranny repair for a major off-highway equipment OEM. If someone argues with this, they only show their ignorance.
If the transmission is damaged already, changing the oil will not repair it nor kill it faster than it was going to fail anyway.
If the transmission is in good shape all around, changing the oil will only help it.
If the transmission is in good mechaincal shape but contains lots of sludge; changing the oil will dissolve the sludge and may cause some temporary valve-sticking. As soon as the sticking resolves its self, change the oil again to remove the sludge that is now circulating. Valve sticking feels like delayed shifts and erratic operation of passing gear.
If the oil in the transmission is worn out or burned, and you leave it in there the additives will be depleted and the level of contamination will grow out of hand. The piston seals will harden, bearings will fail from marginal lubrication, and the clutch linings will clog with particles; guaranteeing a major problem.
The filter in the 125C, 440T4, and 700R4 (maybe others?) is so large that nothing short of a catastrophic failure will create enough trash to plug it. The fine sludge particles are too small to be caught by this filter. It is a waste of time to change the filter unless you already want to remove the pan to inspect for chips, change gasket, etc. If it's a high-mileage transmission I'd want to see in the pan and inspect for chips if it were mine. Curiousity you know!
In my opinion; the best value for the money is the transmission flush offered by fast oil change places. This connects inline with the trans oil cooler circuit and exchanges the old oil for new as the transmission pump pushes oil through the cooler. It flushes the torque converter and exchanges about 80% of the oil. No dismantling needed and only takes minutes.
The myth about changing the oil ruining a transmission comes from human nature. People notice symptoms of a transmission problem, and have the oil changed as a corrective measure. The problem progresses to a full-blown failure within the next few hundred miles and the technologically-illiterate vehicle owner beleives that the new oil ruined his transmission.
I've analyzed 3 transmissions specifically because they suspected "oil change induced failures." One was a 440T4 that has a bad charge pump bearing which looked like it had been spalling for months. The second was a Ford C5 that had a broken belleville return spring due to metal fatigue, and the last was a Funk DF250 that had a snap-ring pop out of position due to an inferior aftermarket part. NONE had anything to do with the oil changes.
If the oil is dark and burned, CHANGE THE OIL and diagnose the overheating problem. It won't go away and correct its self if the old oil stays.
Make sure the cooling system is working properly. If the radiator is marginal, the transmission oil cooler may not be able to keep the transmisison cool. Make sure the torque converter lock-up clutch (TCC) is working. Overdrive transmissions especially will run hotter than normal if it never is able to lock the TCC.
If the transmission is having delayed engagement when cold, going to Neutral when cold, etc. the piston seals are probably hard and not sealing. I like K&W Trans-X additive for this. Seems it will restore the hardened piston seals so they function again. It fixed my mom's transmission for 6 months actually. Change the trans oil before using it, though.
Hope I didn't bore you to death but this is something I've dealt with too many times not to comment! :)
Thanks,
David

[86euro]

What are your thoughts on the Lucas tranny fluid additive?

[Electra_T_Type]

Excellent read. When I was going to take my car to the dealership for a whole trannie flush the service guy told me it may damage the trannie.

[turbokinetic]

86Euro, I haven't used Lucas tranny additive. If it is as good as their engine oil and gear oil additive, then it should be very good.
Electra, is your trans acting up? If not it should be fine to service it. If it's really dirty, expect possible erratic shifting for a day or 2 as the dirt flushes away. Other than that, no harm in it.
It's just human nature for people to take a transmission in for service and when it starts to act up, hoping an oil change will fix it. Then they forget so quickly that it already had a problem and blame the service shop for causing damage by changing the oil.
It happens time and time again and the service shops are gun-shy. Few people understand automatic transmissions. Myths, emotions, and "black magic" ideas based on no solid evidence form in the human mind around things we don't understrand.

[ochy38]

wow... thanks alot for all that info! i was scared too about doin one of those transmission flushes but ill def think twice when it comes time. maybe i missed this in your post, but im still unsure whether it would be a good idea to add the lucas tranny additive to the existing fluid in the meantime before i get it flushed?

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

I think we were all saying not to put any additive in.

[ochy38]

mmk sounds good lol thanks

[Electra_T_Type]

Electra, is your trans acting up? If not it should be fine to service it. If it's really dirty, expect possible erratic shifting for a day or 2 as the dirt flushes away. Other than that, no harm in it.

No I just wanted my low mileage (64,000) car to work like new.

[Jr's3800]

Here's my advice on this. Take it or leave it; but note well I have rebuilt, repaired, modified and diagnosed tranamissions in the automotive and off-highway fields for 15 years, and provide training for tranny repair for a major off-highway equipment OEM. If someone argues with this, they only show their ignorance.
If the transmission is damaged already, changing the oil will not repair it nor kill it faster than it was going to fail anyway.
If the transmission is in good shape all around, changing the oil will only help it.
If the transmission is in good mechaincal shape but contains lots of sludge; changing the oil will dissolve the sludge and may cause some temporary valve-sticking. As soon as the sticking resolves its self, change the oil again to remove the sludge that is now circulating. Valve sticking feels like delayed shifts and erratic operation of passing gear.
If the oil in the transmission is worn out or burned, and you leave it in there the additives will be depleted and the level of contamination will grow out of hand. The piston seals will harden, bearings will fail from marginal lubrication, and the clutch linings will clog with particles; guaranteeing a major problem.
The filter in the 125C, 440T4, and 700R4 (maybe others?) is so large that nothing short of a catastrophic failure will create enough trash to plug it. The fine sludge particles are too small to be caught by this filter. It is a waste of time to change the filter unless you already want to remove the pan to inspect for chips, change gasket, etc. If it's a high-mileage transmission I'd want to see in the pan and inspect for chips if it were mine. Curiousity you know!
In my opinion; the best value for the money is the transmission flush offered by fast oil change places. This connects inline with the trans oil cooler circuit and exchanges the old oil for new as the transmission pump pushes oil through the cooler. It flushes the torque converter and exchanges about 80% of the oil. No dismantling needed and only takes minutes.
The myth about changing the oil ruining a transmission comes from human nature. People notice symptoms of a transmission problem, and have the oil changed as a corrective measure. The problem progresses to a full-blown failure within the next few hundred miles and the technologically-illiterate vehicle owner beleives that the new oil ruined his transmission.
I've analyzed 3 transmissions specifically because they suspected "oil change induced failures." One was a 440T4 that has a bad charge pump bearing which looked like it had been spalling for months. The second was a Ford C5 that had a broken belleville return spring due to metal fatigue, and the last was a Funk DF250 that had a snap-ring pop out of position due to an inferior aftermarket part. NONE had anything to do with the oil changes.
If the oil is dark and burned, CHANGE THE OIL and diagnose the overheating problem. It won't go away and correct its self if the old oil stays.
Make sure the cooling system is working properly. If the radiator is marginal, the transmission oil cooler may not be able to keep the transmisison cool. Make sure the torque converter lock-up clutch (TCC) is working. Overdrive transmissions especially will run hotter than normal if it never is able to lock the TCC.
If the transmission is having delayed engagement when cold, going to Neutral when cold, etc. the piston seals are probably hard and not sealing. I like K&W Trans-X additive for this. Seems it will restore the hardened piston seals so they function again. It fixed my mom's transmission for 6 months actually. Change the trans oil before using it, though.
Hope I didn't bore you to death but this is something I've dealt with too many times not to comment! :)
Thanks,
David

I agree with you ....

Its hard to tell people that their trans was going to go out either way.... we get a lot of the " I changed the fluid and the trans died.... Don't change your fluid.... " Its hard to get people to understand that the fluid change didn't cause the failure, the failure was already happening and the trans would have failed either way...

I have always kept the trans fluid and filter changed in my cars... I have yet to replace my transmissions and they are pretty decently abused... Also with the climate I live in ( Florida ) Both of Bonneville have Heavy Duty coolers... One has the THM440-T4( 4T60 ) the other is the 4T60-E... Amazing how long a trans will last when you keep it at 150-160F as opposed to 200-230F...

I'm not much of an additive person either when it comes to the trans... I believe in keeping the fluid changed tho..
:)

[LordDurock]

^+2
so with 98k on the trany i would put a high mileage syntice it. with no cleaner.
but when i did the fuild change on mine (it was out of the car)

what you will do with the tranyi n the car
is slitly losen all the bolts on the botom pan on the pointed side losen the bols more and wait for the gasket to start to seap. then just keep losing the bolts tell you get all the fuild out. but go slow or you could end up iwth all the fuild every ware.

[turbokinetic]

^+2
slitly losen all the bolts on the botom pan on the pointed side losen the bols more and wait for the gasket to start to seap. then just keep losing the bolts tell you get all the fuild out. but go slow or you could end up iwth all the fuild every ware.


I ALWAYS end up with about 2 gallons of oil in my face when I do this.:mad: I figured out an easier way, though. Drill a 3/8" hole in the pan and let the fluid out.
By the time you finish wiping off and cleaning the oil out of your drill, the trans will be empty! :D
When it is drained, remove pan and weld a nut inside where the hole was drilled. This gives you some thickness to hold the threads. Now you can install a bolt for a drain plug.
Sounds crazy but it works. Just don't drill into the filter or VB.
David

[Jr's3800]

I have always just used one of those $4 sterlite ( spelling ) long wide shorty containers from wally world.... Best 4$ catch pan I have ever bought, and it even has a lid....LMAO


Saves a large mess when doing the trans:D

[LordDurock]

awh i just let the pointy side drip (like when you draining a pumpcen (diffearntcal)
and i come out open it up more on that side and losen the other side after while it helps to only jack up the passger side of the car a to. so the oil run on only one way.

[bigjoe1015]

What a great thread! Long story short, if you buy it new, change the fluid and filter at recommended intervals, sometimes sooner. If you buy it used, change it every 50,000. I change all my vehicles every 50K, and I only use Royal Purple synthetic. Great in the wintertime with cold startups. Better in the summer with little or no breakdown with heat.

As for the Lucas additives, oil and transmission, I have firsthand knowledge of this from the Lucas people themselves, it is fine in the summer, but if you live in a colder climate, DON'T use it in the winter. If you don't believe me, take some of your favorite additive and add it in the recommended percentage, and stick it in the freezer for a couple of hours. now try to pour it out of the container you have it in. It doesn't move. It gets VERY thick. Now imagine that in your engine or transmission on a cold day. Your oil, or tranny pump will be working double overtime trying to pump that thick crap. Fine in summer, bad in winter.

[notsoslimshady76]

What a great thread! Long story short, if you buy it new, change the fluid and filter at recommended intervals, sometimes sooner. If you buy it used, change it every 50,000. I change all my vehicles every 50K, and I only use Royal Purple synthetic. Great in the wintertime with cold startups. Better in the summer with little or no breakdown with heat.

As for the Lucas additives, oil and transmission, I have firsthand knowledge of this from the Lucas people themselves, it is fine in the summer, but if you live in a colder climate, DON'T use it in the winter. If you don't believe me, take some of your favorite additive and add it in the recommended percentage, and stick it in the freezer for a couple of hours. now try to pour it out of the container you have it in. It doesn't move. It gets VERY thick. Now imagine that in your engine or transmission on a cold day. Your oil, or tranny pump will be working double overtime trying to pump that thick crap. Fine in summer, bad in winter.

Good Point!

[Jr's3800]

Agreed that is a good point..:)

[LordDurock]

yea brings new meaning to everything has its down side. ;)