Stranded need help

[sd_focus]

I am stuck in Denver currently while traveling from minnesota to California. We heard squealing coming from belt area but couldn't do anything about it. When we stopped in Denver there was smoke coming from the ac compressor and it sounds terrible. A mechanic told me the bearing was going bad and the compressor was leaking. At this point it needs a new compressor or an ac bypass pulley. Being in a desparate situation we opted for the bypass pulley. The mechanic has never seen a 3.3 wihout the compressor and was unsure if everything he needs for the job will come with the part in the morning. Has anyone done this or seen this? I don't want to be stuck here for more than a day

[turbokinetic]

I am stuck in Denver currently while traveling from minnesota to California. We heard squealing coming from belt area but couldn't do anything about it. When we stopped in Denver there was smoke coming from the ac compressor and it sounds terrible. A mechanic told me the bearing was going bad and the compressor was leaking. At this point it needs a new compressor or an ac bypass pulley. Being in a desparate situation we opted for the bypass pulley. The mechanic has never seen a 3.3 wihout the compressor and was unsure if everything he needs for the job will come with the part in the morning. Has anyone done this or seen this? I don't want to be stuck here for more than a day

Never done a bypass pulley on a 3300. On the 3800 and older 3.8, you can buy a shorter belt and route it to not include the compressor pulley.

The bearing in the pulley went out to cause that. That bearing can be changed out (though not especially easily) without buying a compressor.

Let me know if you need any more info!

David

[turbokinetic]

If the bypass pulley will not work, you can remove the compressor from the engine, remove the clutch hub, pulley, and the damaged electromagnet coil. Then replace JUST THE BEARING in the pulley. Don't re-install the coil or clutch hub. Simply re-install the pulley (with new bearing) onto the compressor, with the original snap-ring. Put the "damaged" compressor back on the engine. The pulley will roll freely on the new bearing, even though the rest of the compressor is inoperative. This will allow the belt to run without danger.

The pulley bearing is part # 5809-VAW

See this thread for pulley disassembly:

http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?3429-A-C-compressor-clutch-pulley-bearing-relpacement

If they DO install the bypass pulley, keep every last part that was removed from the car, including the defunct compressor with all its switches and hardware. That will save you some $ and time when you get home and repair the air conditioner! :)


Hope this helps. Sorry you are stranded.

David

[sd_focus]

It looks like a bypass pulley would be necessary to route the water pump tho I could be wrong. I am unable to wait for a part and do the work myself unfortunately.

[turbokinetic]

.... I am unable to wait for a part and do the work myself unfortunately.

I've never heard of a bypass pulley on a 3300, so if it doesn't work; I was giving an option you could use to save having to buy a compressor. I didn't outright say it, but I intended that as something to hand to your mechanic if the bypass doesn't work.

[sd_focus]

Thanks for the advice. I will bring that up when I see him.

[turbokinetic]

No problem! Hope you get on the road soon. I've been lucky and not been stranded ever. I'm many many miles from home myself now!

[sd_focus]

Bypass pulley works great. Now that I am back home, I have time to work on the car. How difficult is it to install a new ac compressor? I am not sure if it has gone bad and contaminated the system. There was obviously a bearing issue and the compressor was leaking. I don't know much about the car's AC system, unfortunately.

[turbokinetic]

Glad you made it home safe!!!!

The bearing that supports the pulley is NOT internal to the compressor and will NOT contaminate the system. You should be safe to replace the compressor, drier, and oriface tube - then just simply charge the system with oil and refrigerant.

I did a writeup on my 87 Century's A/C. Look here and see if this answers the question. It shows the location of the oriface tube, drier, and how to flush the lines. The actual installation of the compressor is a simple bolt-on part. There are a few switches that have to be transerred from the old unit into the new; and there are 2 o-rings (or flat seals) that go at the Freon lines.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3333733/3

Take care!
David

[turbokinetic]

Your car should be new enough that it will work with R134A using the existing parts exept the orifice tube.

[Ray_McAvoy]

Never done a bypass pulley on a 3300. On the 3800 and older 3.8, you can buy a shorter belt and route it to not include the compressor pulley.

I'm too late for this info to help the OP, but for future reference I can confirm that this works on 3300's too. In fact, it's the same part# belt and routing as used on the 3.8's without AC.

[sd_focus]

I am always overwhelmed when I see pictures and directions for something I have never done or seen before. You have a lot of good info there. Is this something you think I could do in a day or two (with an extra head/set of hands to help me out when I get stumped)? I'm not sure what all I need. Is there an easy way to check if the ac has been converted already? If not, what exactly do I need? I will get the ac compressor, drier, refrigerant, and orifice tube (variable? What do I ask for at the parts store?). What else do I need? Thanks for all of your help! I'm sure once I get to work on it everything will become clear as it usually does.

[turbokinetic]

I am always overwhelmed when I see pictures and directions for something I have never done or seen before. You have a lot of good info there. Is this something you think I could do in a day or two (with an extra head/set of hands to help me out when I get stumped)? I'm not sure what all I need. Is there an easy way to check if the ac has been converted already? If not, what exactly do I need? I will get the ac compressor, drier, refrigerant, and orifice tube (variable? What do I ask for at the parts store?). What else do I need? Thanks for all of your help! I'm sure once I get to work on it everything will become clear as it usually does.

It should only take a few hours. Just go ahead and consider that it has not been converted (at least not "properly") and act accordingly.

Since the pulley bearing failed (not an internal compressor failure) you won't have much to worry about with internal system contamination. You will be able to tell for certain when you remove the old orifice tube. If the screen is all covered in metal chips, you will indeed need to flush the system to a greater degree than 2 cans of spray solvent.

Off the top of my head, I can think of the following items:

-Remanufactured compressor (NOT a "new chinese" unit)
-New drier
-If not included, a quick-connect port for the drier, where the gauges hook up.
-One 9 ounce bottle of PAG 150 refrigerant oil
-Two 12 ounce cans of refrigerant
-One 12 ounce can of "refrigerant plus performance booster with safe sealer" (such as Max Cool, Arctic Chill, etc.)
-Variable oriface valve (Part numbers: Gilmore 90-4615 Four Seasons 38902 Everco A97325 Murray 207325)
-Set of o-ring seals for all lines that are disconnected, such as the compressor hose connection, drier, orifice tube fitting etc.
-Two aerosol cans of Berryman B12 spray solvent (for flushing)
-Compressed air source (for flushing)
-Vacuum pump (or an extra can of freon if you choose to purge the system instead of ecavuuate)

That's all I can think of!
David

[sd_focus]

I should start this tomorrow. I was able to identify all of the parts looking under the hood and it seems relatively simple. However, what do I do when i hook up the ac compressor? Should I run oil through it first? Other than that, is it just the drier that I pour oil into?

Also, when you finally evacuate the system, where did you connect the vacuum pump?

Thanks again. This should be fun.

[turbokinetic]

I should start this tomorrow. I was able to identify all of the parts looking under the hood and it seems relatively simple. However, what do I do when i hook up the ac compressor? Should I run oil through it first? Other than that, is it just the drier that I pour oil into?

Also, when you finally evacuate the system, where did you connect the vacuum pump?

Thanks again. This should be fun.

It'll be worth it when you have cold air again!

Put all the oil in the drier, because the drier provides a metered amount of oil / refrigerant mix to the compressor all the time. The compressor comes with a coating of assembly lubricant in it that will protect it as the first of the refrigerant goes in.

The vacuum pump connects to the low-pressure charging port, on the drier. It will not suck out the oil because the oil stays in the bottom of the drier and the vacuum is pulling out the port at the top.

When are ready to charge the system with refrigerant, charge it into the low-pressure port on the drier (same as the vacuum pump). Charge it in as liquid by holding the cans UPSIDE DOWN with the can tap at the BOTTOM. This will allow the accumulator-drier unit to do its job of metering the oil and refrigerant to the compressor. If you charge the refrigerant in as a gas (can upright) the compressor will run dry for several minutes.

David

[turbokinetic]

I guess you didn't have any problems finding the variable orifice valve?

[mechanizeddeath]

Wow reading this makes me glad my Ciera came with cold AC. (The coldest in fact, of any car I've owned.) Still it doesn't sound too terribly difficult when broken down into steps like this.

[sd_focus]

Yes I found the variable oriface valve with no problems.

where do I evacuate the refrigerant currently in the system before I start? Would the mechanic already have done this before removing the compressor? I have the ac bypass pulley on there now. I am assuming the system would have lost all of its pressure when the compressor was taken out.

[turbokinetic]

Yes I found the variable oriface valve with no problems.

where do I evacuate the refrigerant currently in the system before I start? Would the mechanic already have done this before removing the compressor? I have the ac bypass pulley on there now. I am assuming the system would have lost all of its pressure when the compressor was taken out.

Yes; if the compressor has been removed they would have removed the refrigerant.

[weroberts]

At this point it needs a new compressor or an ac bypass pulley. Being in a desperate situation we opted for the bypass pulley. The mechanic has never seen a 3.3 without the compressor and was unsure if everything he needs for the job will come with the part in the morning. Has anyone done this or seen this? I don't want to be stuck here for more than a day

FYI they do make a shorter belt and this works with all 3.8/3800/3300. I've just left the AC Compressor there and rerouted the belt without it. Did it to a 91 Park Ave, and my 93 Ciera. $20 and you're back on the road till you get around to fixing the Compressor. I always keep the belt handy in the garage. Everything turns the right way just have them look up a belt for a 3.8/3800 equipped car without AC.

[turbokinetic]

As in:

http://68.209.87.173/Yarding/07-31-10/IMG_2608.JPG

:)

[Century7667]

It'll be worth it when you have cold air again!

Put all the oil in the drier, because the drier provides a metered amount of oil / refrigerant mix to the compressor all the time. The compressor comes with a coating of assembly lubricant in it that will protect it as the first of the refrigerant goes in.

The vacuum pump connects to the low-pressure charging port, on the drier. It will not suck out the oil because the oil stays in the bottom of the drier and the vacuum is pulling out the port at the top.

When are ready to charge the system with refrigerant, charge it into the low-pressure port on the drier (same as the vacuum pump). Charge it in as liquid by holding the cans UPSIDE DOWN with the can tap at the BOTTOM. This will allow the accumulator-drier unit to do its job of metering the oil and refrigerant to the compressor. If you charge the refrigerant in as a gas (can upright) the compressor will run dry for several minutes.

David

David,

I'm just about ready to do it. I think I'm going to DO IT! I'm so sick of getting bent over for A/C work. If I can find a way to recover my refrigerant (not for reuse, just recycle), I think I'm going to go ahead and tackle the orifice tube and accumulator (if your system a really a orifice tube dryer...or is it really an accumulator??).

Just as soon as I stop working these 60 hour weeks!

Ken T.

[sd_focus]

I saw the belt diagram and it specifically showed how to bypass the ac with a shorter belt. Right there under the hood. I wanted to slap myself. 20 bucks and 5 minutes in a parking lot could have had me on my way

Flushed the condenser and some tubes but the male connection on the dryer won't budge. I will have more time to work on it tomorrow. The lower connection to the evap looks like a pain to get to as well.

I

[turbokinetic]

Ok - everything in the large-size pipe from the evaporator, through the dryer, and into the compressor inlet is low pressure. Any port on the dryer can be used for charging.

On your car, the orifice valve / tube should be up front at the condenser coil. As you FACE THE CAR it will be in the fitting at YOUR RIGHT (just like the picture on my car domain page). You may not have to disconnect the lower evaportor core line (unless it is leaking). If there is no oily residue around it there is no reason to mess with that line.

When you flush the evaporator core, the flushing fluid will flow back through the tube and come out the fitting where the orifice valve goes. (the one up front behind the bumper)

To purge the system without a vacuum pump, it is simple to do but you have to make SURE you got all the flush solvent out first. Blow dry shop air through the lines until the air comes out not smelling like any trace of solvent. Purging with freon does not remove moisture like a vacuum pump, so a good flush and DRY shop air blow-out is important. For many years this is how it was done. Very few peopple had vacuum pumps "back in the day."

Once you have done the flush, put in the oil and close up the system.

Here is the purge procedure. Check your local laws before proceding.

Engine needs to be OFF. Connect blue gauge manifold hose to the low pressure port on the dryer. The red hose is not needed.
1-Start by charging in some refrigerant gas (can upright) until the system has 50 or 60 PSI. Will take less than one can. Close the gauge valve and stop the flow once you see 50 or 60 PSI.
2-Manually turn the compressor CLUTCH HUB (not the pulley) by hand. Go 5 or 6 rounds. This has mixed the air in the system with refrigerant gas.
3-Loosen the blue charging hose at the gauge manifold. Allow the pressure to bleed off until it has only just a couple PSI pressure remaining. Re-tighten the hose.
4-Open the charging valve, and allow more refrigerant gas to flow into the system. Stop at 50 or 60 PSI. Turn the compressor clutch hub by hand again.
5-Release the pressure down to just a couple PSI.
6-Continue the procedure until you have used one can of refrigerant. By this time, the remaining air in the lines and coils will be diluted to such a low concentration that it will not affect the system.

Now that you have nothing but low-pressure refrigerant gas in the system, you can go ahead and charge the system. Install the 12 oz can of A/C system treatment and 2 additional 12 oz cans of refrigerant, charging as liquid (can upside down) into the drier port. Charge with the gauge valves fully open and the A/C system on MAX A/C with the fan on medium or low, and the engine at idle speed. Rapid charging with liquid will help ensure the oil and refrigerant mix immediately and the compressor is lubricated.

Hope this clears it up!

[sd_focus]

Everything is flushed and ready except I overlooked the shipping address on the compressor and it was sent to me minnesota address over 1500 miles away! No problem, I can have a remanufactured unit here in the morning and return the old one.

Also, the ports I have install on the original valves, in the lines, not on the dryer. I ordered the dryer with ports on it and came up with a completely incompatable part. Instead I got an OEM style for r12 or r132a. Am I still ok to charge liquid through the low side port on the line (between evap and dryer)? I am confused, due to my lack of knowledge on ac systems, as to how I can charge liquid into the dryer if the compressor cannot take in any luquid?

How much pressure do I charge the system to?

Thanks as always. It all makes sense after I've done it.

[turbokinetic]

Everything is flushed and ready except I overlooked the shipping address on the compressor and it was sent to me minnesota address over 1500 miles away! No problem, I can have a remanufactured unit here in the morning and return the old one.

Also, the ports I have install on the original valves, in the lines, not on the dryer. I ordered the dryer with ports on it and came up with a completely incompatable part. Instead I got an OEM style for r12 or r132a. Am I still ok to charge liquid through the low side port on the line (between evap and dryer)? I am confused, due to my lack of knowledge on ac systems, as to how I can charge liquid into the dryer if the compressor cannot take in any luquid?

How much pressure do I charge the system to?

Thanks as always. It all makes sense after I've done it.

LOL about the shipping address SNAFU that happens from time to time!!!

Yes, it's fine to charge the liquid refrigerant into the line that is between the evaporator (cold coil in the dash) and the dryer. Since not all the liquid refrigerant evaporates in the evaporator coil, a mix of liquid and gas refrigerant is coming into the drier when the system operates. The function of the accumulator / drier unit is to contain the excess liquid refrigerant and hold it. The drying function is a simple bag of chemical that resides in the bottom of the canister.

I'm going to try to explain the accumulator function and how the it separates liquid and gas, but it may be confusing. If I had an old drier to cut open it would be great!

The fitting (on the drier) that leads to the compressor has a tube inside the drier housing. The tube curves down to the bottom of the drier housing, then makes a U-bend and ends at the top of the housing. It is open at the top. Therefore the drier canister can contain liquid in the lower half, but the compressor is pulling gas (through the internal tube) from above the level of liquid.

At the bottom of the internal tube, there is a very small hole punched in the tube. This hole is at the bottom of the drier canister. When the system is working properly, the compressor is receiving the refrigerant gas through the open end of the drier internal tube at the TOP of the canister. The excess liquid and oil are collecting in the bottom of the canister. At the bottom of the canister, a small "trickle" of mixed oil and liquid refrigerant comes through the bleed hole and gets carried by the flowing refrigerant gas. This large flow of gas, with a small mist of oil and refrigerant is what lubricates the compressor.

The compressor on this car has no capacity to hold any oil and depends on a constant mist of oil coming into the compressor with the low-pressure refrigerant gas. A compressor does not compress the gas in the same manner that an engine compresses air. Unlike an engine, the compressor always has a discharge valve ready to open as the piston is moving up. The liquid oil and small amount of refrigerant can escape through the discharge valve. The system is designed to have a given amount of oil and refrigerant coming through at all times. There is a limit to the volume of liquid it can pump at any time, and the accumulator is designed with the right size bleed orifice to make sure this is not exceeded.

As for the charge amount, the only way to charge an accumulator system is charging "by weight." There's a sticker on the system that tells the amount of refrigerant it takes. If it gives the weight for R12 only, multiply the weight given by 0.7 before charging R134A. Normally you will end up putting in three 12-ounce cans. The pressures depend only on the temperatures of the coils. You can't charge by pressure unless you use some very sophisticated thermometers to monitor the line temperatures. The safest way is by weight since the cans are all pre-measured by weight.

Hope this helps - I know it is pretty involved about the accumulator / drier operation!

Later,
David

[sd_focus]

It all makes sense. I will finish this tomorrow.

[turbokinetic]

It all makes sense. I will finish this tomorrow.

Awesome!!!! Glad it's clearer now.

[sd_focus]

electrical inlet for clutch engagement on the new compressor does not match the wire harness on the car. Everything else fits like it should. This is a little frustrating.

[turbokinetic]

electrical inlet for clutch engagement on the new compressor does not match the wire harness on the car. Everything else fits like it should. This is a little frustrating.

Oh yeah! I hate when that happens. It seems ALL the compressors have the new-style clutch coil connector now.

There is an adapter harness available. Or you can go 'yarding and pull the connector from a car that has the correct style on it.

[sd_focus]

Yeah I went strait to the yard after that post. Seems every 3.3 a-body (and others) had that new style harness so I picked up 4 of them just to be safe. There were at least 15 a-bodies there so I will keep that place in mind. Everything is ready to be purged now. Might finish this tonight if I feel like it.

[sd_focus]

Finished this morning. Ac is nice and cold. Thanks to everyone who heled out. I'm far from a professional technician but I am confident this will work out.

[turbokinetic]

Finished this morning. Ac is nice and cold. Thanks to everyone who heled out. I'm far from a professional technician but I am confident this will work out.

Wonderful! Very happy it worked out. Should work for several years before you have to do anything else.