ignition switch failure??? pontiac 6000 LE

[Road-Angel-240]

here is a strange one, a few weeks ago my nephew reported to me and showed that the key kept getting stuck in the foward position after he started my car, and the only way to shut the car off was to move te key foward into start and back again, this grinding the starter, I told him for the time being, if he had to, put his foot on the break and put the car into drive so the neutral safety will prevent the starter from activating, he can then move the key to start then back to off to shut the car off without dammage,

BUT a few days ago the car would not start at all, cranked and cranked and cranked,, my coil pak is brand spanken new so i dought i am having ignition trouble in the engine area, but here is the kicker, i slapped the key inward and tryed to start the car, and she fired right up. and fired right up 3 more trys afterward, so i said what ever it was, it works now, you can take the car to go to work.

not even ten minutes go by and I had to go tow my car back home because the car suddenly died while being driven down our dirt road, i arrived and tryed to start the car, she started, ideled, then ideled very roungh, then died,,

with the car back at home after being towed, I tryed running touble codes, and i have no idea why, but the servive engine light which usualy will flash number codes, was acting very weard, i ccould hear a relay clicking, but not as the normal way when every relay gets turned on in code read mode,

i shut the ignition back off, hit the key assembily inward, and tryed again to check codes, this time everything worked as it should have, and simply gave me the standard code 12, and no trouble codes.

is it a good asumption that my key ignition switch is so messed up that an ignition short has accured or is accuring? any suggestions or comments before i replace the key switch and ignition switch located further down inside the column?

[dcjredline]

Sounds to me like you have done your homework and are headed in the right direction replacing the switch.

[86euro]

Yep, sounds like you have two problems, the ignition lock cylinder and the ignition switch.

[SCREECH]

The only thing it sounds like you might be slightly mistaken on is about the components in the column - you asked whether you would need to change the key switch. The only "switch" that's actually in the column that has to do with the key is a simple contact that closes when the key is in the cylinder which causes the chime module to warn you about your key being in the ignition with the vehicle off. Now, don't get me wrong, I acknowledge that you may very well have just used the wrong wording and may already be well aware of the configuration of the column. However, just in case, as Andy mentioned above, the ignition cylinder, a purely mechanical piece of hardware in the column, is likely the cause of the key not turning backwards. This cylinder can be changed with one from most other GM cars (or trucks even) of a similar vintage. The steering wheel will need to be removed, and the lock plate and signal switch will need to be pulled out of the top of the column to access the single screw which allows the cylinder to be slid out of the column. With the proper tools this can be done in about 10-15 minutes.

The ignition switch which actually provides the power to the car and the starter is bolted on the OUTSIDE of the column, on the top, just behind the instrument panel. It is actuated by a rod that is moved from inside the column when the ignition cylinder is rotated. Here's a picture of a Ciera column removed from the car which shows the ignition switch:

http://screech.ws/miscpics/blue_console_parts/column02.jpg

The ignition switch is the gray metal box with the blue overspray on it, on the bottom of the picture. It is quite easy to access once the lower trim panel has been removed from under the dash. If this switch is the cause of the failure (which it sounds like it very well could be), it would certainly be affected by you banging on the key cylinder as it would vibrate the entire column. Hammering on the side of the steering wheel would likely have had the same effect. Here's another view of the switch, on the top of the column, with the column oriented as it would be in the car:

http://screech.ws/miscpics/blue_console_parts/column03.jpg

Long story short: there is nothing actually up in the column where the key is that would affect the electrical operation of the vehicle.

['84 6000]

Unless the components in the top, tumbler, etc. are that worn that they haven't been moving the switch properly for quite some time. That would eventually cause the switch itself to go bad.

[Road-Angel-240]

thank you to all for the posts, unfortunately somehow i assumed i would be notified by email by this site if i had post replys, my mistake. anyway I just finished work on the column stuff today, then logged back in to post a new problem, to my suprise to find out i had posts. oddly enof I found out about the ignition switch on my own while tinkering with the column, in either event replaced the ignition key assembily deal and the ignition switch, and um well my starter soleniod as well, lets just say i had an accident down there when i was checking fusable links... well anyway, with everything replaced, am cranking, i am getting fuel, i am getting spark, but she jst will not catch and run.

here is something interesting, I plugged in my homemade jumper to run code check, instead of the service engine light flashing codes or even a 12, i was getting a constant timed flash in conjunction with a clicking sound heard from the engine area, i poped the hood, and for a split second code read mode returned, the service engine light started to flash code 12, the fan relay and all others had been activated (as normal) but as soon as i got out to open the hood, code read mode failed, and the return of the perfetly timed on off on off clicking returned, with my head now in the engine area, it sounded like my injectors were clicking, as well as the im guessing to be a relay part on top of my fuel vapor canister at times if i slamed a door or shook the car, i would momentatily get code read mode back but not for long.

this is by far the most odd problem i have ever encountered, and this is the second 1989 pontiac 6000 LE that i have owned, maintained and fixed, i should know this car by the back of my hand, but this is very strange, is it just me, or does it sound like a very bad short and possibly a short relating to power or ground going to the ECM, perhaps a fusable that i thought looked ok? I am totaly lost