New, errr old member

[turbosewgn]

Some of you might remember me from before this website was redone.. I have the '87 6000 SE wagon that I was putting a turbo into last summer... Sorry I didn't keep up with the site, work has been a bear.. But, the wagon was finished, the T-3 turbo was put in and everything was fine, took it on some test drives and the thing was scary fast! Played with some bigger fuel injectors and things of that nature; even put her on the dyno once... Well, even as careful as I was to keep the boost down to only 6lbs, and my foot off of it, it turned out that the bearings could not hold the power and well, about 5 houses down from mine, she started making some hideous noises so, I idled her home and then off to the shop she went.. This was on Dec 10th and there she sat. For some reason, my mechanic didn't really seem to want to even look at it so, finally he just said, "oh we started it once and yup, you have a spun bearing." By the way, we need to clear the lot so, could you take it away." :jawdrop: Basically that was what they told me. They didn't even pull the pan off to look inside.. I was kinda shocked since I've probably dropped close to 10K at this place with the Firehawk and other cars. Fine, so that conversation took place last week after it had been sitting there since Dec. I was gonna have to junk her. I didn't want to but, I couldn't find anyone to work on her.. Then while looking I came across someone who knew of someone who had a shop and it turns out this guy works on and currently owns a turbo Grand Prix! So I checked out his shop, met him and had some good conversations, and well, Eunice is there now. He is working up some numbers for me. He would like to rebuild the motor to the TGP specs with forged pistons and crank, a new cam, valve job, etc.. I told him the tranny worked fine but didn't like to shift into 2nd when cold so, he's looking for a HD tranny like the ones used on the TGPs. He also does chip work for them and well, depending on the cost, I might just have him rebuild old Eunice for me. I couldn't bear junking her! Poor girl is so dirty from sitting outside since last year. So, if I do this, it will be the 2nd time Old Eunice is saved from the boneyard.

[BignastyGS]

Welcome back!!! Hope you can keep Eunice from the crusher guy...Alot of the same people are on here from the old forum as well as alot of new people..

[turbokinetic]

Whoa that sounds familiar. You've probably seen my thread about messing up a Buick V6 that had not been running in years.

I'd be really disappointed in a shop treating my car that way. Talk about a let-down and lack of professionalism.

Hope you get her fixed up with this new guy.

Have you any pictures from the turbo install?

Thanks!

[notsoslimshady76]

I remember you! Welcome back

[86euro]

Welcome back! I can't imagine how "dirty" your wagon must be, it's one of the cleanest A-bodys I've ever seen:lol:

[turbosewgn]

Yeah, it's filthy! It snowed on it a few times and then dirt stuck to it like glue..
I went to check it out today because the guy told me he tried to start it and it wouldn't so, I got scared and drove across town to check it out and take him the intercooler I was never able to find a place for.. Anyhow, he had it inside the nice clean shop with a checker board floor and I turned the key and she started right up for me! She was running so smoothly but as soon as you gave her some gas, there it was, rod knock..:( But it was so good to hear her come to life, just one turn of the key and she sprang to life .:eek5: So, the HD turbo GP tranny is mine if I want it, and he also offered to use a true TGP 3.1 block that he has... I'm pretty happy about this so, I'm looking forward to getting this thing on the road. I have a digital camera now so, I promise to go over there frequently while they're working on her and take some pictures.... She's gonna be sweet!!:rock:

[turbosewgn]

So I checked with the shop that I have Eunice at. He sent the TGP 3.1 block out to the machine shop last week to be checked over and gone over replacing whatever needs to be replaced or whatever... Said the motor was in good working condition, and so, I imagine it shouldn't cost me too much to get it rebuilt. It has the forged crank and the forged pistons which is cool because all of this time I was thinking it was just a bare block but if it already has all of this stuff, then that's the faster it could be on the road.. So he's going to check out the pistons and the crank and do whatever needs to be done to them.. Looks like (from what I understood) that the wagon already has a 440T transmission, just not the HD electrical version the TGPs had so, it's going to be rebuilt using the HD parts and the 3:33.1 gears.. My tranny was in good running order so, I don't imagine they will have to do too much to it. The only problem it was having was that it has 158.000 miles on it and it didn't like to shift into 2nd when you first started it in the cold. After you nursed it into 2nd it was fine the rest of the day until you parked it overnight again. But it shifted just fine, no slipping or anything like that. I thought these cars had the TH125 (I think that's what they were called) transaxle which were prone to failure. Why would mine have a 440 or am I just really misunderstanding this? I looked through the service records my dad kept on it and there is nothing about the tranny ever being replaced or anything, just the recomended oil changes. Is it because it is a wagon? Because it was the SE model? Was it an option back then to use a 440T? Are the TH125 and 440T the same thing? Or am I just way off on this?
I can tell you the difference between a Turbo 400, a 700R4, and a 4L60E but, these FWD trannys always throw me for a loop...:dunno:
Does anyone know?
Aside from that, I took him a set of 19lb injectors, and a set of 24lb injectors, in case the stock 15lb injectors that are in there now are not enough.. 15lb!!!:confused: I couldn't believe that's what these cars had but, according to the part number and the Rochester chart I found on line, that is what they are.. Amazing! So the 19lb injectors came off of a Ford Mustang and Crown Vic (same part number) and the 24lb injectors came off of a 3.4 Lumina Z34 and are the same part number as the injectors used on the Chevy 454 truck my neighbor had.. So, he can play with the different sizes to see which ones Eunice responds to better...
I should have a defenite cost this week. I hope it is a reasonable price so I don't have to junk the old girl...

[notsoslimshady76]

You could get a 440T (also called the 4T60) transmission in a 6000 no problem. The TGPs all came with 4T60-HD. No electronic control. Its the same 4 speed with the HD internals. Its better you beef up your transmission anyway. The TH125 is the three speed transmission that Shake n Bake has. It gets the job done, but I like the 4 speed better

[turbosewgn]

Thats what he said!! A 4T60! Man I was way off... That's what I get for posting when I'm sleepy... So yeah, Eunice has a 4T60 already which will be rebuilt with the HD internals...

Thanks!

[skalor]

I wouldn't get too worked up over using TGP engine parts, they really aren't any better than any other 3.1. The TGP crank and pistons are not forged. The trans is a different story though so do go with the 4T60HD. The TGP 4T60 and the 4T60 in your car are a direct swap. The plug for the TCC may be different but they can be swapped. Also, just use the 24 lb injectors since TGPs used about the same size and they were nearly maxed for me at 11 psi on a T-25.

[turbosewgn]

Well; I got the call today with the cost to give old Eunice a steroidal heart transplant. The TGP block is back from the machine shop and ready to be installed, he will be using a different type of cam that a lot of the TGP guys apparently are getting great results from. The tranny will be going off to be rebuilt as a HD 440T so, we're all set. I told him to go ahead and do it. The car isn't worth the money I'm putting into it but, she has some sentimental value to me and my dad so, again, I couldn't bare the thought of her being junked, stripped, and crushed. She's been in the family since it was brand new in 1987. Heck, 4 more years and I can put antique plates on her and call it good. Instant little classic / survivor that should have been crushed decades ago.
Will take pics tomorrow if he has started to work on her already. :werd:

[turbosewgn]

Engine and tranny are out of the wagon! I'll be stopping by tomorrow hopefully with my camera. I'm hoping to bring the engine cradle with me to clean it and paint it.

[turbosewgn]

Ok, I have some pictures but I'm a dork and can't figure out how to get them on here. Can anyone help? They are on an e-mail from the guy working on the wagon.

[turbokinetic]

Would love to see your pictures!! Glad you're mechnic is getting it done. Bet you can't wait to see how stout it is with the new turbo engine.

[turbosewgn]

Let's try this again...
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/2388/cradledownya6.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/4056/euniceba4.jpg
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/177/motorandtrannygp8.jpg

Somehow I don't think I did this right but, oh well.. Maybe one of you can help me..
Thanks!

[notsoslimshady76]

Oh man. You almost got it. Just when you upload them to image shack, make the size a little bigger! There should be an option to change the size near where you upload.

Looks so clean!

[turbokinetic]

Looks good, maybe try # 2 could be some large size pictures?

[turbosewgn]

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll work on that today.. But I just found out something very interesting at the junk yard! I came across an 01 or 02 Impala and the cradle had been taken out with the motor.... The steering assembly was just sitting there and so I'm thinking that this has got to have a much better ratio than the old rebuilt ugly blue one on my wagon. But I figured it wouldn't be the same design.. Well, I compared it to another '87 6000 and guess what?! They are identical! :rock: Bolt holes are in the same place! Hose connections are in the same place!! SWEET!! I hated that rebuilt one! You had to turn the wheel like a zillion times to go from end to end! SCORE!!

[notsoslimshady76]

nice!

[86euro]

So a newer Impale rack is the same? Cool! I just found out last week that the inner tie rod for a '89 Celeb is the same as a '00 Cavi.

[turbosewgn]

Yup! Looks to be identical. If the ends are a bit long, it should be a matter of just screwing them in. I think the Imps are a little wider than the A-bodies.. But as for the assembly itself, it is identical.. I know the 6000 S/Es and STEs had a tighter ratio rack than the others from what I've read... And I remember it being really tight when it was new but then after the factory one had to be replaced, they put the regular one in and the steering has been all sloppy since... Hopefully not any more now! :eek5: Now if I could just find some tighter struts so that she wouldn't nosedive so much when you slam on the brakes:rofl:

[turbosewgn]

So I went by where the wagon is... The tranny is back from being rebuilt... It is so nice and clean:) It has a 2100 stall speed torque converter, and I noticed it also had a B&M adjustable vaccum regulator (I think that's what they're called) That big bell shaped thing in the front of the tranny with a hose going up to the intake manifold just behind the throttle body?? Yeah that... I'm not sure but I thought he had mentioned that it would also have a shift kit which would be nice.. I'll have to ask. I didn't know they made such a thing for those transmissions.. :lol:
So, the TGP block is back from being rebuilt, the tranny is back, now we're waiting on the heads to be finished with a 3-angle valve job and guides and then he can put it all back together. Looks like maybe the beginning of next week.. I'm pretty excited... Can't wait to see how different it is.. The original 2.8 was pretty scary with the turbo the few times I ran it before it blew up so, I can't wait to see how it will be now with the TGP 3.1, a T-3 turbo, a hopped up tranny, and good tuning... I'm not kidding, my other car is a Firehawk and maybe I'm just used to it but, it scared me when I was test driving the wagon and I got on it with the old 2.8 and the turbo. Not saying it's faster, just that, it's not right to see one of these cars getting up to 60 that quickly... So I'm very curious as to how it will do now with a completely new set-up. :dunno: I'm pretty excited about him buffing the paint too:werd:

[turbokinetic]

Glad it's all coming together! You may be surprised how fast this car is. My car with an older, iron-head 3.1 turbo will outrun many V8 cars... easily and by a large margin...

The 440T4 trans is a good one but at these power levels it takes some modificatons. I have finally got my trans almost strong enough. The story can be found here. http://home.hiwaay.net/~davida1/transaxl.htm Most tranny places can get a shift kit for these, I used a Transgo "system correcton pack" and then did other mods.

That thing on the front with the vacuum line is called a "modulator" and it causes the transmission charge pressure to rise (more clutch holding power) as the manifold pressure rises (opening throttle, increasing engine torque). It is imperative that this is adjusted right or it can burn the clutches, or cause harsh shifting and second-gear starts.

Keep us posted!
David

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

A stock 3.1 TGP motor is supposed to be 22 lbs Bosch fuel injectors. Finding Ford yellow top injectors (high end crown vics, mustangs, and ebay) is supposed to be a good, reliable, inexpensive upgrade. I used 97 Buick Rivera 3.8 NA Bosch injectors in mine, runs fantastic last time I drove it (about a year ago now, sitting in storage).

You might see about getting that T25 rebuilt, or find the T28 hybrid kit, that takes your T25, and turns it into a T28 internally. Make sure to use a OE O2 sensor also (Delphi, or Delco). The oil lines to and from the turbo should be replaced, and upgraded.

Since you have the cradle on the gound, see about finding some KYB struts, and putting them in. You can find them usually on ebay

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37&satitle=struts+pontiac+6000&category0=

Also finding a stiffer spring rate spring in the back will give you a better launch. Some here have used those APV Lumina springs.

Thats all I can think of for now

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Oh yea, finding a stiffer spring rate front spring will also make the braking better, as well as launchs, with a larger sway bar, and the addco bar in the back.

[turbosewgn]

So, shoud I use the stock modulator or stay with that B&M? I did provide the Ford Yellow Top injectors as well as a set of the injectors used on the 3.4 Luminas which flow even higher. I'll let him determine which ones work better for it...

Yeah, the springs are something I want to replace... So Lumina APV huhh? Is there a difference between an APV and a regula Lumina minivan? What about the fronts?
It nosedives like crazy on hard stops...:eek3:

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Im not sure. One of the other members here has the APV springs on, and can probly give you more info on that..

On the front, start with those KYB struts, a FE3 sway bar, and some stiffer springs rates. Not sure what your car has currently for the spring rate or sway bar, but it can always be stiffened up.

[notsoslimshady76]

Could you reload those pics bigger please? they look so good!

[86euro]

Im not sure. One of the other members here has the APV springs on, and can probly give you more info on that..

Someone on Cardomain has the U-van springs in the rear of an older Celeb. He had to cut one coil off and the butt of the car was still a little high. One more coil should do it, they said.

[turbosewgn]

I'll have to look into those stiffer springs you all mentioned... It's not so bad in the back, I think they're a bit stiffer because it's a wagon but, like I said, there's some huge nosediving going on up front.:lol: The 6000 S/Es and STEs came with the FE3 suspension, it just wasn't badged on the car like the Oldsmobile's. But it's listed on the option codes where the spare tire is.. I do remember it being waaay stiffer when she was new and it didn't dive so much, so I'm guessing the front springs are a bit tired out. The struts themselves and rear shocks are fairly new, my dad had just replaced them with factory replacements about a year before I shipped her up here so, about 4 years ago. The ERC had quit working so, he had that fixed too and it cost him an arm and a leg! :eek3:
So, anyone know about that modulator for the tranny? Should I keep that B&M on there or put a stock softie back on?

I've been trying to get those pictures larger but, I've had no luck... I'm just a dork when it comes to stuff like that! I hate computers! That's why I'm a computer systems engineer:jawdrop::rofl:

[ochy38]

last year i contacted coilsprings.com and they told me they could custom wound a set for 150 pair front and 140 pair back. i think im plannin on goin with them for the fronts and doin the van springs in the back

[notsoslimshady76]

When you upload them and click "browse" to find the picture......right near it will be an option to chose the size. Chose something like 800X600ish. If it doesn't work, feel free to email me:

fisckv86@oneonta.edu

[turbosewgn]

YES!!! Coilsprings.com.. I was hoping someone would mention them, I just couldn't remember the name.. Sorry, my brain is fried from work:eek3:

[notsoslimshady76]

(My favorite picture!)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Car_Lift.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Engine_Trans.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Cradle_Low.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Engine_Low2.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Engine_Low3.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Engine_Low4.jpg
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e335/notsoslimshady76/Eunice/Engine_Low5.jpg

[skalor]

You didn't say that you were at Kaz Motorsports. Kenny is a good guy and I remember him from back in the days on W-body.com. Anyways, tell him that skalor from W-body says 'hi', and that AaronZ34 wants a rematch. LOL!!

[mickstan_VR]

Thats bada**. I love it.

[turbosewgn]

Skalor, I'll tell him you want a rematch:) Yeah, he's building old Eunice for me..
No one else wanted to work on the old girl and I was about to have to junk her but, he rescued her from the boneyard for me.. He's really confident she's gonna be quite the sleeper. I told him I just couldn't wrap my brain around that wagon being fast:rofl: so, I'm very curious about the outcome. So far I'm very happy with the service he's provided, I'll probably take my Firehawk there when it needs some more upgrading:eek5: I knew he knew what he was talking about when he asked me if Eunice was an AWD model... I've never run into anyone that knows they came in AWD. Don't usually run into anyone who knows what a 6000 S/E is period.:(

[turbosewgn]

OOOPS..... My bad, AaronZ34 wants a rematch.. :cheers:

[Duke George V]

*plays theme from 2001 A Space Odyssey*

Hell. Yes. This is absolutely what I would be doing to my wagon if it weren't a basket case.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

My favorite picture!

SideBar - I like this one, homebuilt, Volvo 4x4 station wagon; article here (http://www.turbobricks.com/mods.php?content=art0023)

http://www.turbobricks.com/mods/img/art0023_img011.jpg

[turbosewgn]

That Volvo is awful! But not as bad as the '78 Firebird 4X4 I saw a picture of the other day..

[turbosewgn]

Went to check out old Eunice today... Still waiting on the heads so, she's not done. That's ok though... Saw the old block and the timing chain had a ton of slop on it, I couldn't believe how much!:eek5: It's nice and tight on the TGP block. He said one of the lifters on the old block was sticking quite a bit too. He won't be able to work on it for an entire week but, maybe the week after that.. We'll see..

[turbosewgn]

Strangely, the more I look at that Volvo wagon, the more I like it:eek3:

[87Cutlass Ciera]

Strangely, the more I look at that Volvo wagon, the more I like it:eek3:

That is strange :kekeke:
A Volvo is just not supposed to sit that high! lol

[Tuddi]

Me, a 4x4 madman... The Volvo... well, there are a couple of things that are way off.

First things first: The car sits too high, meaning that the center of gravity is too high, and can get the car to flip over if one is not driving carefully. It should have been lowered, the rear inner and outer fenders cut wider to allow wheel travel and more riding safety would have been acheived.

The second thing I object to on that Volvo, is the colour... it's just not a human choice!

The third thing I don't like at all, is the rear door frame. That's the "Volvo thingy" ... same rear door for the station as the rear door for the 4 door sedan.

And the 4th thing would be: While making a total custom job of a car, why not make it PROPER? Some real 4x4 tires, some real suspension, some real differentials with air locks and proper engine power?

Minimum recommendation to the owner: .... change the colour!

[turbosewgn]

Went to see Eunice this past Friday... He has the motor put together with the exception of the intake manifold and the turbo... He was hoping to get it mated up to the transmission and back in the car this weekend so, maybe I'll get a call next week telling me to go pick her up! He had the yellow Ford fuel injectors in...
Showed me the original block with the oil pan off... Said there was a lot of metal in the oil pan.. Showed me a big chunk of bearing wedged in between the crank and rod... Amazing how that can cause that horrendous noise and such loss of oil pressure....

I'm stoked! I can't wait to drive the old girl with a new motor and tranny! Can't wait to smoke some unsuspecting victims. :kekeke:

Well, I'll post again next week.. Found a '90 6000 at the boneyard which looks to be in really good shape so, I'm gonna go and get the weather stripping for the windows tomorrow.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Gonna need to get some wider tires to keep all that power on the ground, and not in smokey burnouts..

[turbosewgn]

Wider tires and stiffer springs or something... She's got some serious nose dive when you hit the brakes hard:rofl:

[turbosewgn]

Went to check out Eunice today and DANG!! She's almost finished!:rock: Motor and tranny back in, harness plugged in, plenum is on and even the piping from the turbo to the throttle body is on... She's on the lift and ready to be started for the initial break-in.
He won't be able to start her until Friday though because he's got a few other cars that he needs to work on right away... But I'm very impressed at how she is turning out.
Good timing too since on the drive back to my house in the Firehawk my friggin' Walbro 255 fuel pump decided to kick the bucket and I had to get towed back home :rant:

But yeah! I can't wait to take her for a spin! Kenny redid the fuel lines for me since they were screaming red-neck:lol: And he re did the oil supply line to the turbo which also was screaming hick town... Hey! I can say that cause I come from a hick town.. Anyone heard of Bithlo, Florida? Didn't think so:kekeke: We had school bus racing on a dirt figure 8 track.. :rofl:

So by next week I should be able to get behind the wheel and start breaking her in...

[86euro]

That seems to be a common problem with the walbro pumps, doesn't it?

[turbosewgn]

I got a great e-mail the other day:eek5:
It's alive!!!

Eunice came to life and idled smoothly... Looks like I can pick her up tomorrow!!! :rock:
He said he had a few little things to button up but that I should be able to pick her up this Wednesday... SWEET!!! I'm so excited! I can't wait to start breaking her in...

:cheers:

[turbosewgn]

Been gone for a week on a trip to Mexico... Thought Eunice would be finished when I got back but he ran into some snags with the ECM... Something about the fuel tables not being right.. So I have to go to the junkyard this weekend and try to find a 7730 computer. Apparently Eunice has a different computer than what it should... Could be possible; I asked my dad and he said they had to replace the computer when she was about 2 years old. Don't see how a different one could have worked all of these years... Maybe that's why it was such a turd... But I started it and it idled smoothly. I could smell it running rich though apparently because the fuel tables (whatever those are) are not right due to the ECM.

Will keep you posted...

[turbokinetic]

The fuel tables are maps of the engine's breathing ability, they match the fuel delivery to the engine's specific personality. FOr any given engine speed and air pressure, the ECM looks at these tables to know how much fuel is needed.

Here's one possibility - The 7730 ECM is supported by many tuning tools that allow the fuel tables to be adjusted. If the replacement ECM was an "unpopular" model, it may not work with your mechinics computer tuning system. In order that the engine, turbo, and injectors are working in harmony, the ECM must accept new settings.

[turbosewgn]

So I haven't posted in a long time.. There were lot's of little things being done, tuning here, bad sensor there, wrong MAP sensor here, etc.. But finally since dropping Eunice off early this year after the place that had her for six months prior decided they didn't want to work on her. She is finally back home :)with a freshly rebuilt ASC McLaren 3.1 motor full of forged goodies and a more agressive cam. The heads are the original ones although they received a 3 angle valve job and new seats. After many tries with different fuel injectors; Eunice was most happy with the green 24lbs. ( I think) injectors found in the Lotus-built GM FWD 3.4 found in the Luminas, Grand Prix's, Cutlass Supremes, and a few other vehicles.. Some re-pinning of the ECM had to be done. (Didn't help that Eunice had the wrong computer for the past 20 years)
So I had to go get one out of the boneyard.. Perhaps that's why she ran so crappy. Leave it to the dealerships.. They replaced the ECM when she was 2 years old. The tranny was also rebuilt to the Turbo Grand Prix specs; with a 3:33.1 gear ratio, performance torque converter, a shift kit, and a B & M adjustable vaccum modulator. The turbo is a T-3 off of a 90-something SAAB. But apparently it only makes 6lbs. of boost??? But this will work well until I break in the motor for 1900 miles. Then we can do something about that.
So, finally today I got the keys to Old Eunice back from Kenny at Kaz Motorsports. Kudos to him for doing an outstanding job!! :cheers: A friend told me that if I get a boost controller, I can get that T-3 to spit out 12lbs.. Anyone know more on this? Well, if ya'll remember, I'm terrible with getting pictures in, but I will try.... It was raining cats and dogs today so, I just got her home and parked her. But even at 6lbs. she was howling happily past other unsuspecting vehicles.. That made it all worth it... Go Eunice:rock:

[dcjredline]

Congrats geesh its been a looooong time since we had an update. Sounds like things are right on track now.

[turbosewgn]

Well, after driving her around today, I noticed she got a lot smoother as the ECM figured out what the heck was going on. Yesterday it would crank for a bit before starting, but today it just started right up. I noticed one thing between this motor and the original one... On the original 2.8, there was always piston slap. I remember my dad complaining about it when the car was new and they would say it was normal -- all of them did it. It's true, the 2.8s and 3.1s are noisy motors.. But this one is very smooth and quiet.. None of that racket that was going on under the hood when you pushed the old 2.8 (even when new). Not sure if that is due to it being a newer motor, or due to it being a 3.1, or because it's a McLaren motor? Either way, it's very smooth... The adjustable vaccum modulator on the tranny needs to be adjusted because, it shifts pretty hard from 1st to 2nd.. Other than that, this thing is a hoot..:lol: I was coming up behind these kids in a Jeep and they were turning around looking for where the whistling was coming from.. Then they stared at me as I whizzed by.. Priceless..:rofl: I had the same effects on several other drivers I was driving by.. Apparently the whistling is quite louder outside the vehicle than inside, cause two folks had their heads stuck out the window looking before I got to them..:kekeke:
Well, if it would stop raining, I could do some other things I want to do like putting in the amp I took out when I thought I was going to junk her.
Oh, I found the dyno chart on the floor of the car.. She made 167hp at 6lbs. and 230ftlb. at the wheels in the Colorado altitude.. She'll pick up a bit as the ECM learns and then she'll go up a lot more when the turbo gets bumped up to 14lbs after the break-in period.
Anyone have any good suggestions on an exhaust system for a turbo vehicle? What's on there now sounds like CRAP!:werd:

[86euro]

What exhaust is on there now? Stock?

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

I cant wait to see this car in person. Suppose to be moved to Denver by the beggining of December.

[dcjredline]

I WANT TO SEE A VIDEO! I aint drivin to CO just to see this car as sweet as it sounds.

[turbosewgn]

What exhaust is on there? Ummm, not much of an exhaust.. When I got her up here from Florida, the muffler was about to fall off and the two separate tips had rotted to where you couldn't see them... I replaced the muffler with a generic turbo muffler and a nice oval chrome tip that filled in the opening where the two separate pipes used to be when new.
Later, the cat got clogged so, it got cut off and replaced it with a straight pipe.. But in front of that, it's still the 21 year old factory holy pipe so, it sounds pretty horrible... And it's pretty ugly to look at too if you happen to look underneath...:kekeke:
So everyone tells me that with a turbo, the exhaust will be quiet.. Good luck with that, this thing is pretty darn loud.. But, I want to do it right.. The down pipe from the turbo is nicely done and wrapped in some bandage looking stuff to keep it cool.. Then from there on, the local muffler shop suggested a 3" pipe.. Bad thing is they are required by law to put a cat back on it..:rant: And even though I have two sitting in my garage, they won't install a used one.:rant: So anyhow, I thought I would maybe get the Borla muffler and tips and have them put in a 3" system up to the front including a friggin' cat! My Firehawk has an entire Borla system from front to back and it has lasted me as long as the car is old! So they are defenitely a good investment. But this thing sounds horrendous as it is! And the car has always had this little miss every now and then at idle, and the crappy exhaust really accentuates it.. So yeah, needs new plumbing for sure...
Today, I drove her out to Schriever AFB where I work for the first time since I got her back..
You have to go up this hill that everyone calls garbage hill because there's a garbage dump right there.. Anyways.. On a lot of cars, if you don't hit that hill doing over 70mph, you're toast. You'd better get a running start.. That used to be the case with Eunice.. But today, no running start or anything, this thing flew up that hill like a raped ape!! I left everyone behind! :rofl: I couldn't believe it. And I wasn't really pushing it cause I'm still testing its reliability.. The guy in the expensive Volvo something or other SUV with temp tags wasn't too happy since he gave me the stink eye when he finally caught up with me at the gate.. He thought he was gonna pass this old bucket and got schooled...:kekeke:
I am sooo amazed at this car now!! She did stall on me once today. I am hoping it's just the ECM still learning and freaking out a bit... But she started right back up..
Brian, you'll have to get in touch when you move to Denver..
I'll ask my friend how difficult it would be to post a short video... If it ever stops raining!
I'll post more later..

:cheers:

[turbokinetic]

YAY glad to hear Eunice is up and running!! Nothing can compare to turbo boost. It is an eye-opener indeed.

Please post a video, I did and it is pretty neat. My transmissioin is shifting out too early in this video and the boost is only 8 PSI but you can see the acceleration. If you haven't seen this already, watch and maybe it will encourage you to do one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ3SnUIz5wk

I have a Thrush brand "turbo muffler" (from Auto Zone) at the back in the original muffler position. It is a 2.5" in and out. Up where the catalytic converter used to be (no comments) there is a Cherry Bomb glasspack (also Auto Zone). The whole exhaust system is 2.5" pipework, bent by a shop here in Tuscaloosa. It follows the factory exhaust routing.

I need to do an exhaust sound video...

Have fun!
David

[turbosewgn]

Turbokinetic -- That's a sweet video.. I like how that speedometer flies up.. Someday, my speedometer will work again and I will see that... Seems my VSS sensor gave up the ghost so, no speedometer right now.
So I went to Bud's Muffler here in town and they installed an exhaust system for me..
They used a flexpipe just at the front from the downpipe to just behind the sway bar crossmemeber. Then it's 2 1/4 ( I think) to the cat. Yes I had to get a cat.:rant: and then out to the rear. I had a fairly new turbo muffler there so, it was still good so I kept it for now..
But putting a new exhaust in there cured all the roughness at idle. So, aside from being nice and quiet now, she's running way better... There's a tiny bit of hesitation when you first hit the gas but then she's all good. I think the hesitation is part of the idle being a bit crazy. So, I'm going to ditch the Autozone Idle Air Control Valve and pick one up at the dealership. Pretty pricey but, I don't like idling all crazy with an occasional stall.
I took old Eunice to the local Saturday car show yesterday. I couldn't stop and pop the hood since I was late, but, I got a lot of looks... Then I left and hit it just enough to set the BOV off.. NICE. One of the guys from the place that wouldn't work on Eunice was there. I wonder what he was thinking as I drove by in the car they wouldn't work on for me after having it in their parking lot for 6 months! :rant: I digress....... I waved.... No hard feelings... They did a wonderful job on my Firehawk...

[turbokinetic]

Glad you liked it! My car has an old mechanical speedometer! What transmission do you have, I may have a VSS...

Having a cat does not hurt the car any, other than quieting down the exhaust. If it is a large enough cat it will not restrict the exhaust any more than a glasspack muffler.

Alabama currently has no car inspections and even though it is illegal to remove the cat, my car didn't have one when I got it. I see no reason to install one until I am forced to. When that day comes I will replace the glasspack with a cat converter and it won't bother me.

People are stealing catalytic converters here to sell for scrap so I am less vulnerable to this theft and vandalism without one.

I went with 2.5" exhaust because that is the "largest tubing" that Jummies Muffler in Tuscaloosa could install in my car without going underneath the rear axle or having to reduce the diameter at the muffler.

My idle is smooth, but every 10 or 15 seconds, the engine "revs" about 100 RPM and falls back. It has always done this. You only notice it when the windows are open and you can hear the engine. It does not affect the car. It is just annoying and represents a "glitch" in the engine management system.

When changing to a 2-BAR MAP sensor, there are several constants that have to be cahnged in the ECM to prevent a hesitation. The main ones are the "delta MAP" and "delta TPS" accel enrich tables. When changing a calibration from 1-bar to 2-bar you have to remember that for the the same change in air pressure, the change in MAP voltage is cut in HALF by the 2-bar sensor. Any constants that responds to a change in MAP signal will need to be increased, probably doubled!

I love reading about someone having success with a project! Keep up the posts! Do you have any pictures of your current engine setup? Would love to see how your turbo system is done.

[turbosewgn]

Haaa! It's funny to hear about your idle jumping around a bit too... Eunice has done that for years and I thought it was my ignition starting to go bad. But my mechanic said it was just due to having 3 coils for 6 cylinders.. It's really annoying and yes, it's really noticeable when you have a loud exhaust. Now I can't hear it though with a quiet exhaust, but I can see it in the tach... There's gotta be a fix for that! I converted the Firehawk's OptiCrap ummm, (OptiSpark) to the Delteq 4 coil system.. But there's only 4 coils for 8 cylinders... But it's very smooth and doesn't do that little dance that the one on the wagon does... There must be a way to fix that.. I thought about going to the boneyard and getting a 3 coil ignition off of a 2000 or up GM FWD vehicle. But I don't know if it would be compatible with the old ECM??
I figured they had to have fixed that in the past 20 years...
So she drives very well, but I've noticed that when I use the turbo; eventually and usually at the worst time, the car will stall. Starts right back up and runs just fine, but it's annoying and not very safe... So that is why I'm going to get the new idle air control valve at the dealership tomorrow for the cost of my arm.. I think the one I got at Autozone freaks out when it starts to see boost.. And it was one for a turbo Grand Prix..
But she continues to improve with every day of driving.. I put in a bottle of BG44K to clean out the injectors.. I smell gas after running with boost, but there's no leak anywhere...
I'm thinking the charcoal cannister must be close to saturation. Or I need a new gas cap.

[turbokinetic]

One reason you may smell gas when on boost would be if there is a bad checkvalve letting boost pressure flow back into the cabin through the cruise, HVAC or other vacuum accessories. (ther is a cruise-vent hose going to the brake pedal)

My idle issue isn't an ignition problem. It is a smooth idle (for 10 seconds) then the engine will blip up to 900 RPM then smoothly decay back down to 800. In another 10 secs, it repeats. My engine has a distributor with an MSD box, anyway.

It is NOT I repeat NOT NOT NOT because of 3 coils for 6 cylinders. The cylinders work in pairs and the coils each work one pair of cylinders. The cylinder under compression takes the highest voltage to fire, and the exhausting cylinder takes very little spark energy. Virtually all these work this way and most of our engines run smooth.

Can you video the engine idling so we can hear it?

Thanks,
David