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94 soupecoupe
10-11-2011, 03:55 AM
so my mons car is havin some issies.

to start, she was drivin around and car dies on her. got it towed home and was diagosing it. started up perfectly fine when it was dropped off. when i hit the throttle it sputters and dies out.

disconnected MAF and does the same thing. cleaned throttle body and MAF. does the same thing. starts up and i hit the throttle and dies out. after a while of running i shut it off. let it sit for 20 minutes. then tried to start it again and wouldnt start.

fuel pump is kicking on and pressure is good. not too sure what to do. has new gas filter if that matters. and does have spark.

any help is appriciated. moms car is kinda stuck right now.

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-11-2011, 08:33 AM
Fuel injectors is where I would start checking. You need to check them individually.. You have to do it with a multi-meter. 12.0 or higher is good. 11.9 or lower is bad. I replaced mine at 12.0 being that it was borderline bad.

94 soupecoupe
10-12-2011, 02:55 AM
will try that one tomorrow. was told it could be the fuel mump geting too hot. maybe its bad?

lemons bob
10-12-2011, 03:15 AM
I actually had to replace both. How much fuel is in the tank? Gas is actually meant to cool the pump so if it is low it would cause it to heat up quicker.

To check the fuel pump you would need a fuel pressure tester, it should be between 40 and 50 psi, if it is low the pump should be replaced. So start with whatever is easier.

94 soupecoupe
10-18-2011, 02:32 AM
update:

car has fuel pressure and spark. gas tank is full. replaced MAF sensor and gas filter. there is no injector pulse. car will run if i spray starting fluid in the throttle. i was told it could be the ECU. any ideas? really need toget moms car runnign again.

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-18-2011, 06:25 AM
dont beleive the injector pulse...

as mentioned above, OHM check your injectors directly...

94 soupecoupe
10-19-2011, 03:42 AM
none of the injectors have any power. checked fuses. is there a relay or anything else that may cause them not to work? or could all 6 be bad?

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-19-2011, 06:31 AM
If one injector is bad, it will short 3 in the bank. Therego, if you have 2 bad, one on each bank, it will short all 6 out..

It could be your injector module in your computer, but I would start with OHM checking your injectors. Its free..

94 soupecoupe
10-20-2011, 01:52 AM
did the OHM check today. not netting any reading from them. everything iis at 0. so i guess i gotta go with ECU?

94 soupecoupe
10-20-2011, 02:05 AM
what about crank sensor? would that cause this issue?

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-20-2011, 03:49 AM
At -0-???

That either means you had the multimeter on the wrong selection, or every injector is dead. I could see 3-4 being bad. But every one??

I dont remember what the multimeter selector needs to be at. Maybe one of the other guys that has done this recently can.. I think it needs to be on 200.

And yes, the crank sensor will cause a no spark, and no injector pulse.

94 soupecoupe
10-20-2011, 04:29 AM
ill throw in a crank sensor, its only 8 bux. and see what happens. any idea of location of it? cant log into alldata right now.

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-20-2011, 06:41 AM
Be careful.. The crank sensor is located on the back side of the engine, and is prone to break in the port in the back of the block. If it breaks, it becomes really nasty to pull out the rest of the sensor, along the lines of dropping the oil pan, etc..

SCREECH
10-20-2011, 05:10 PM
You said the car has spark? That means the sensor is doing it's job. If the injectors are not getting power, however, you need to check that circuit. Though if the car was running only at idle and dying when you give it throttle, and now died altogether, it could very well be the pump - that's how my '96 Regal behaved when I had to change its pump. I would need to double-check the wiring diagrams for that setup, but I believe the injectors should have 12V present all the time when the IGN is on, and the ECM grounds them to complete the circuit. So if you check the wires going to the injector plug with your positive lead of your multimeter, with the key on, one should have 12V when you ground your negative lead to a good ground. If you don't have any power on either wire with the IGN on, then that's at least one problem that needs to be sorted out with that circuit.

lemons bob
10-20-2011, 05:16 PM
At -0-???

That either means you had the multimeter on the wrong selection, or every injector is dead. I could see 3-4 being bad. But every one??

I dont remember what the multimeter selector needs to be at. Maybe one of the other guys that has done this recently can.. I think it needs to be on 200.

And yes, the crank sensor will cause a no spark, and no injector pulse.

If it is reading 0, then they are dead dead, but I would think even if they are dead you should get some resistance. I have some that are good sitting at home since I swapped all of them when I did them since most were bad, so I'll verify what the settings are suppose to be and maybe take some pics of how to test it.

94 soupecoupe
10-22-2011, 04:45 AM
update:

got the car running. was a broken wire to the fuel injector harness.

now got another issue.

when i sart it up, it has a high idle, then settles. and when car is in drive and stopped, idle bogs up and down and occasionally stalls out. maybe a vacum leak? i do hear a slight hissing in engine bay. or possible bad injector somewhere.

Carlton
10-22-2011, 11:16 AM
I'd definitely check for a vacuum leak. Easy way to do it is to hold a hose against your ear and then move it along possible leak points. Or take a water spray bottle and spray along intake manifold etc, when you hit the leak the engine will respond.

94 soupecoupe
10-22-2011, 02:57 PM
thats my plan for tomorrow. was tracing vacum lines and looks like some go under the intake manifold. might take it off so its easier to trace em.

deathamatend
10-23-2011, 06:38 AM
1 x 1, 1 x 10, 1 x 10,000 OHMS

94 soupecoupe
10-28-2011, 03:09 AM
all issues fixed for now. thanks again guys for all advice!

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-30-2011, 03:05 AM
What was it?

deathamatend
10-30-2011, 04:04 PM
Common vacuum leak is vacuum line from engine to firewall that works the HVAC control doors. When it leaks you can hear that one with the hood closed. Buy a 12 inch piece of red silicone vacuum hose, and problem will be permanently solved. It gets cooked from the rear exhaust manifold and cat heat. Dorman/Help sells the three port check valve if that is a problem. Price is reasonable too.

94 soupecoupe
11-04-2011, 04:23 AM
vacum line was broken under upper intake manifold.

just recently the car has been running with a high idle on start up. when i push the EGR valve in the idle goes down slighty and runs rough. any ideas on that one?

deathamatend
11-04-2011, 06:15 AM
Check all of your computer grounds (behind glove box) and engine grounds. Long shot-- could be ignition switch on steering column above brake pedal. Check for power and grounds first before needless parts swapping. If you are checking computer unplug and plug in the connectors to be sure they are all making contact.

94 soupecoupe
11-15-2011, 10:17 PM
back at square one with moms car. its doing the same thing again... will run for abouit 20 seconds and die out. if i start it up and hit the throttle it dies out.

has fuel pressure and spark. injectors have power. but did a test today and when car is started they have power then slowly lose it.

any ideas??

Pontiac6ksteawd
11-16-2011, 09:41 AM
Then we are back to square one, needing to OHM test each individual injector.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-16-2011, 11:33 AM
has fuel pressure

I haven't followed this thread.....but, someone is monitoring fuel pressure when it is started up, and then running? Watch the gauge, all the time.

Injectors - Never examined power circuit...on a Bosch setup (Volvo), they are energized via relay, and are hot (positive voltage) all the time....if true here, replace relay (or hot wire it).

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-16-2011, 11:39 AM
when i sart it up, it has a high idle, then settles. and when car is in drive and stopped, idle bogs up and down and occasionally stalls out.

MY 2.8 has high idle on cold startup, normal.......my 2.8 will bog up/down if I don't do an idle relearn after disconnecting battery...

Vacuum Leak - Disconnect brake's booster vacuum line.....for a vacuum leak, one might use a vacuum gauge to see if there is a vacuum leak.

94 soupecoupe
11-16-2011, 10:18 PM
ohms are good on all inectors. FP is at 40. all vac leaks fixed. battery hasnt been disconnected.

but while testing yesterday, i had one injector unplugged and was testing, it had power on start up, then lost it. somethign seems to be cutting power to injectors as of recently. checked for broken wires, seems to be none.

85 ciera: where is this relay?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-16-2011, 11:59 PM
somethign seems to be cutting power to injectors as of recently.

On 1988 Beretta 2.8 motor - There is no relay, power is fed thru via Fuse 1, 15 amp fuse.

This fuse feeds ECM (ECM is also feed via two other power wires; three total), direct ignition system, and injectors.

But, when going to injectors, it is spliced in two parts; one part feeds three injectors, and other part feeds other three injectors.

Splice is behind I/P (instrument panel I presume) on right hand side...yours may vary.

Key switch runs power thru to Fuse 1....so, don't overlook a Key Switch "loosing it." One could hook a direct hot wire from battery (or cigarette lighter) to Fuse 1 as a test for testing key switch.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-17-2011, 12:03 AM
this relay?

Have you got schematics for it? See what fuse number 1 feeds.

94 soupecoupe
11-19-2011, 04:45 AM
update:

no new things. changed IAC valve. found a busted vacum line. still same issues... what about changing the ECU? would that help? maybe its bad?

if so does anyone have one? dont have $120 to drop on one..

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-19-2011, 12:33 PM
what about changing the ECU?

Without reading back and seeing what you have replaced:

If this is an intermittent issue, it would point, generally speaking, to a "thermal issue," which could be related to

1. Key Switch -
2. ECU
3. Ignition Module
4. Wiring being overloaded...gets hot, then reduced current
5. Wires broken internally, due to them moving

I would try, as suggested in post #30, putting a hot wire on fuse 1, if this supplies injectors, before buying an ECU.

Key switches, usually found on steering wheel column near floor, do go bad, and intermittent issues will show up. Older vehicles have alot of key switch action.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-19-2011, 12:35 PM
dont have $120 to drop on one..

Back East, finding a pick-n-pull with your year of vehicle may be slim pickings....do you know ECM number, and checked ebay?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-19-2011, 12:41 PM
I don't have time to sort this out (true/false)

Donor Vehicle (http://www.ebay.com/itm/86-87-88-89-CHEVY-CAMARO-ENGINE-ECM-/250819053786)
Model CHEVY CAMARO
Year 1989
Mileage 118000 Miles (0 = not available or unknown)
Stock Number 013501
Store Number 1

Part Placement
Notes 2.8L,WHT,1-89,FL-AOT,1227302


Interchange Part Number: 590-01340

This part will fit these makes and models with these options

6000 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L), EFI
CAMARO 86-89 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L)
CAVALIER 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L)
CELEBRITY 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L), EFI
CIERA 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L), VIN (8th digit) "W"
CIMARRON 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L)
CUTLASS 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L), VIN (8th digit) "W"
FIREBIRD 86-89 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L)
FIRENZA 86 Elec Cont Unit (ECU); 6-173 (2.8L)

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-19-2011, 12:45 PM
THIS ECM WILL WORK (http://www.ebay.com/itm/ECM-1227730-16198262-16196344-2-8-MPFI-ARXW-CORSICA-BERETTA-CELEBRITY-CUTLASS-/360395656622?item=360395656622&vxp=mtr) ON ALL THE GM CARS LISTED BELOW WITH THE PROPER CHIP INSTALLED. THIS ECM ALSO INTERCHANGES WITH ECMS 1227730 16198262 16196344 PLEASE VIEW MY OTHER AUCTIONS FOR MORE CHEVY TRUCK ECM COMPUTERS AND 2.8 4.3 5.0 5.7 LITER TBI FUEL INJECTORS AND TBI THROTTLEBODY SENSOR SETS. ITS ALWAYS GOOD TO HAVE SOME SPARE PARTS IN YOUR TOOL BOX IN CASE YOU BREAK DOWN. CHEVROLET SILVERADO BLAZER ASTRO FORD GMC JIMMY AND SIERRA SAFARI DODGE RAM AND RAMCHARGER TRUCK PARTS. THANKS!!!!

Year Make Model Engine
1993 CHEVROLET BERETTA GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 CHEVROLET BERETTA GTZ V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 CHEVROLET CORSICA LT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = H
1993 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = H
1993 PONTIAC SUNBIRD GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1993 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET BERETTA GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET BERETTA GTZ V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET CAMARO RS V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1992 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1992 CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 CHEVROLET CORSICA LT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
Year Make Model Engine
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1992 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1992 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = H
1992 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = H
1992 PONTIAC SUNBIRD GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1992 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET BERETTA GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET BERETTA GTZ V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET CAMARO RS V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1991 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1991 CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 CHEVROLET CORSICA LT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 PONTIAC 6000 LE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 PONTIAC 6000 SE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1991 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1991 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = K
Year Make Model Engine
1991 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = K
1991 PONTIAC SUNBIRD L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = K
1991 PONTIAC SUNBIRD GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1991 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET BERETTA GT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET CAMARO RS V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET CAMARO IROC-Z V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1990 CHEVROLET CAMARO IROC-Z V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1990 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET CAVALIER V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET CELEBRITY V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET CORSICA LT V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 CHEVROLET CORSICA LTZ V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 PONTIAC 6000 LE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 PONTIAC 6000 SE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA V8 5.0L 305cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = F
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1990 PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA V8 5.7L 350cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 8
1990 PONTIAC SUNBIRD GT L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = K
Year Make Model Engine
1990 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = K
1990 PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = K
1990 PONTIAC SUNBIRD GT L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI T Engine VIN = M
1990 PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI T Engine VIN = M
1989 BUICK CENTURY CUSTOM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 BUICK CENTURY LIMITED V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET BERETTA GT V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET CAVALIER V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET CELEBRITY V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET CORSICA LTZ V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 CHEVROLET CORSICA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA CRUISER V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA CRUISER SL V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA SL V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 PONTIAC 6000 LE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 PONTIAC 6000 SE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1989 PONTIAC 6000 STE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1988 BUICK CENTURY CUSTOM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 BUICK CENTURY ESTATE WAGON V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 BUICK CENTURY LIMITED V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CADILLAC CIMARRON V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CHEVROLET BERETTA L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
Year Make Model Engine
1988 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CHEVROLET CAVALIER V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CHEVROLET CELEBRITY V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 CHEVROLET CORSICA L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1988 CHEVROLET CORSICA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA BROUGHAM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA CRUISER V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA CRUISER BROUGHAM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA SL V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 PONTIAC 6000 LE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 PONTIAC 6000 SE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 PONTIAC 6000 STE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 PONTIAC 6000 V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1988 PONTIAC 6000 STE V6 3.1L 189cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = T
1987 BUICK CENTURY CUSTOM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 BUICK CENTURY ESTATE WAGON V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 BUICK CENTURY LIMITED V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 BUICK SKYHAWK CUSTOM L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 BUICK SKYHAWK LIMITED L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 BUICK SKYHAWK SPORT L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 CADILLAC CIMARRON V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET BERETTA L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
Year Make Model Engine
1987 CHEVROLET BERETTA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER CS L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER CS V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET CAVALIER V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET CELEBRITY V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 CHEVROLET CORSICA L4 2.0L 122cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 CHEVROLET CORSICA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA BROUGHAM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA CRUISER V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA CRUISER BROUGHAM V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA S V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA SL V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA LC L4 2.0L 121cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA LX L4 2.0L 121cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA S L4 2.0L 121cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA L4 2.0L 121cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = 1
1987 OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA GT V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 PONTIAC 6000 LE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 PONTIAC 6000 SE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 PONTIAC 6000 STE V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W
1987 PONTIAC 6000 V6 2.8L 173cid GAS FI N Engine VIN = W


Buyer's Guide: STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS EM7730 Engine Control Module (ECM Computer)
BUICK CENTURY CUSTOM (1987 - 1989)
BUICK CENTURY LIMITED (1987 - 1989)
BUICK SKYHAWK CUSTOM 1987
BUICK SKYHAWK LIMITED 1987
BUICK SKYHAWK SPORT 1987
CADILLAC CIMARRON (1987 - 1988)
CHEVROLET BERETTA (1987 - 1993)
CHEVROLET BERETTA GT (1989 - 1993)
CHEVROLET BERETTA GTZ (1991 - 1993)
CHEVROLET CAMARO IROC-Z 1990
CHEVROLET CAMARO RS (1990 - 1992)
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 (1991 - 1992)
CHEVROLET CAVALIER (1987 - 1990)
CHEVROLET CAVALIER CS 1987
CHEVROLET CAVALIER RS (1987 - 1993)
CHEVROLET CAVALIER Z24 (1987 - 1993)
CHEVROLET CELEBRITY (1987 - 1990)
CHEVROLET CORSICA (1987 - 1989)
CHEVROLET CORSICA LT (1990 - 1993)
CHEVROLET CORSICA LTZ (1989 - 1990)
CHEVROLET SPECTRUM 1986
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA (1987 - 1989)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA BROUGHAM (1987 - 1988)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA S 1987
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CIERA SL (1987 - 1989)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CRUISER (1987 - 1989)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CRUISER BROUGHAM (1987 - 1988)
OLDSMOBILE CUTLASS CRUISER SL 1989
OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA 1987
OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA GT 1987
OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA LC 1987
OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA LX 1987
OLDSMOBILE FIRENZA S 1987
PONTIAC 6000 (1987 - 1988)
PONTIAC 6000 LE (1987 - 1991)
PONTIAC 6000 SE (1987 - 1991)
PONTIAC 6000 STE (1987 - 1989)
PONTIAC FIREBIRD (1990 - 1991)
PONTIAC FIREBIRD FORMULA (1990 - 1992)
PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM (1990 - 1992)
PONTIAC FIREBIRD TRANS AM GTA (1990 - 1992)
PONTIAC SUNBIRD GT (1991 - 1993)
PONTIAC SUNBIRD LE (1991 - 1993)
PONTIAC SUNBIRD SE (1991 - 1993)

ECM 1227730 16198262 16196344 2.8 MPFI ARXW CORSICA BERETTA CELEBRITY CUTLASS

94 soupecoupe
11-21-2011, 04:53 AM
thankfully my manager let me borrow one to see if that is my problem. (i work at a auto parts warehouse). if not im out of options....

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-21-2011, 01:50 PM
let me borrow one to see if that is my problem...

It was back in 1979, some 33 years ago, a neighbor of mine went to GM training school in Kansas City for this new electronic stuff (EFI), where the instructor said in 1979,


...the days of throwing parts at it are over."

One needs to rule out which part/wire is defective, then buy the part(s) required.

PS: AutoZone has schematics:

Take advantage of our services by registering with us (http://www.autozone.com/autozone/repairinfo/repairInfoLanding.jsp). Registered users have unlimited access to thousands of pages of repair instructions through our free Vehicle Repair Guides. These Guides have vehicle-specific printable repair instructions covering a large number of models from 1950-2007. Registered users can also keep track of their vehicle's service history as well as sign up to receive e-mailed information about their vehicle, including, Technical Service Bulletin titles, recall notices and service reminders.

94 soupecoupe
11-23-2011, 12:14 AM
car is running. again. for now. i guess changing the ECU worked.

now thats its running again, when the car warms up it haas a misfire. just did plugs n wires not that long ago. checked plugs, they are pretty dirty even for being a month or so old. maybe they got fouled out?

or just shitty advanced auto parts $20 wires?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-23-2011, 01:04 AM
i guess changing the ECU worked.

When working on auto-vehicles, there are times when one "fixes" the effect, rather than the cause. And in a short period of time, that part gets changed again, and again, until the cause is fixed. As I noted, doing one more test may have determined if your ignition switch is shooting craps or not. There may not be anything wrong with it, but on older vehicles, its not uncommon for ignition switch reducing current to applied circuits.

Back to square one - If the ignition switch test was not performed, then give it a try.

If vehicle ran good with wires/plugs, and those wires/plug were for vehicle (double check), then this would not likely be an issue.

If plugs were dirty, this might suggest:

1. Weak ignition spark, due to IM, coils, not getting enough current to IM, and/or defective ground wire.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-23-2011, 01:15 AM
when the car warms up it haas a misfire

Please explain! Under load, every time this input is given...etc

94 soupecoupe
11-23-2011, 03:52 AM
not really too sure how to...

once the car warms up, it has a misfire. when cold its fine.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-23-2011, 04:35 AM
once the car warms up, it has a misfire. when cold its fine.

All the time, misfiring?

Misfiring may suggest a lean mixture....IAC comes to mind....lower rail pressure than OEM specs....spark plug gap too wide....MAF/MAP not right...dirty injector(s)...Note - Does vehicle have speed density software installed?

But, dirty plugs (fuel fouled I assume) suggests a rich mixture, or a weak spark....I assume you checked plug gap before installing, btw.

Computer's temp sensor, if not reading correctly, can send less/more fuel to engine...but I have doubts here about it being the cause.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-23-2011, 04:41 AM
once the car warms up, it has a misfire. when cold its fine.

What is being stated is:

1. When in Open Loop, everything is OK

2. When in Closed Loop (Computer is in command) something is wrong

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-23-2011, 04:51 AM
when cold its fine.

When running cold, most all engines will be running an extra rich mixture...have you been running it cold...short trips...idling? This too can foul plugs.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
11-24-2011, 12:44 AM
haas a misfire.

If it was my vehicle, I would check the schematics and see which fuse sends power to injectors.

Then, I would hook up a 20 amp current gauge (AMP Gauge) on this fuse, and watch it....then for another test, I would supply current gauge with battery power, and see what current is when running too.

94 soupecoupe
06-06-2012, 10:18 PM
so bumping this thread again... moms car is acting up again.. rough idle, stalling.

parts replaced:

MAF sensor
IAC sensor
MAP sensor
TPS
crank sensor
plugs and wires
fixed all vacum leaks
replaced ECU

im just out of options... need some help// otherwise im jusking this thing. even if it has 90K on it

SilentWing
06-07-2012, 12:48 PM
Might be a completely different beast, but we went through symptoms much like you're describing with the rough idle, but more of a lope like it had a beefed up cam in it in Luke's 92 Toronado (3800 which is why I say different beast). Couldn't chase it down for the life of us, ended up being a $4 PCV valve. Just throwing it out there, maybe someone else can confirm or shoot it down.

fred924
06-19-2012, 03:22 AM
Did you put this car up on craigslist? Did you fix all the issues?

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/3080942669.html

85_Ciera_Rebuild
06-20-2012, 02:59 AM
.. rough idle, stalling.

parts replaced:

MAF sensor
IAC sensor


Chances are, vehicle has/had Speed Density software in ECM, if you transferred ROM to rebuilt
ECM. With Speed Density software, it does not use the MAF sensor...unplug it, and you can tell for sure.

IAC is not a sensor...but can be related to rough idle, stalling.

If it runs fine on highway/streets where motor is "engaged," but has "rough idle, stalling" issue...either IAC is not getting the signal, or use some injector cleaner.

Any Codes?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
06-20-2012, 03:05 AM
.. rough idle, stalling.


Replied on December 11, 2010
(http://www.2carpros.com/questions/1988-pontiac-6000-ecm-replacement)
COMPUTER RELEARN PROCEDURES
Vehicles equipped with engine or transmission computers may require a relearn procedure after vehicle battery is disconnected. Many vehicle computers memorize and store vehicle operation patterns for optimum driveability and performance. When vehicle battery is disconnected, this memory is lost. The computer will use default data until new data from each key start is stored. As computer memorizes vehicle operation for each new key start, driveability is restored. Vehicle computers may memorize vehicles operation patterns for 40 of more key starts.

GENERIC COMPUTER RELEARN PROCEDURES
Some manufacturers identify a specific relearn procedure which will help establish suitable driveability during relearn stage. These procedures are especially important if vehicle is equipped with and electronically controlled automatic transmission or transaxle. Always complete procedure before returning vehicle to customer. The following general procedures are to be used if driveability problems are encountered after power loss or battery has been disconnected. These procedures may provide an aid in eliminating these problems.
Automatic Transmission

Set parking brake, start engine in "P" or "N" position. Warm-up vehicle to normal operating temperature or until cooling fan cycles.
Allow vehicle to idle for one minute in "N" position. Select "D" and allow engine to idle for one minute.
Accelerate at normal throttle position (20-50%) until vehicle shifts into top gear.
Cruise at light to medium throttle.
Decelerate to a stop, allowing vehicle to downshift, and use brakes normally.
Process may be repeated as necessary.

Twinpilot001
10-05-2014, 12:22 AM
I* have had the same issues as above- changed the TPS & set all specs (adjusted) seemed ok -yet also found the canister purge solenoid not holding vacumn!! replacing that tomorrow. well see??