Why can't someone write a book on L67 Swaps in A Bodies?

[BignastyGS]

I have been working the last 5 weeks on what is involved completely in swapping a Series II L67 into one of my 86 Century GS's.I have found a couple of websites that had some limited info,and even one site whaere the thread turned to a bitching session.Why wouldn't someone write a book about the swap with parts needed,part numbers,tips and how to wire the PCM deal. There is a guy who will swap the wires,but I wasn't really planning to shell 450 bucks out for something I most likely will pay 100-200 for at the Junkyard as well. I know Skalor has done the swap,but the wiring harness is what deterrs me. I am positive I can handle the pull my 3.8 and the L67 with their transmissions,and install them accordingly. The wiring is a huge concern. It sure would be nice knowing if any of my parts from my 3.8 would work as well as if I could just build up the THM 440 to handle the motor. I am not looking at a 400-500 hp motor,just a cool looking engine compartment. Can anyone point me to any other website that could possibly answer my questions? I have been on 3800.com,motorswap.org,,regalGS.org plus a couple other places. I am starting to lose faith in the swap now..
Rant off...

[Techfizzle]

Ok, In mho, I wouldn't spend 5 weeks swapping an dang motor! Be happy with what you got! And you don't have to write the pcm just get a pcm out of a car with a 3800 in it. Oh and by the way, we're more familar with the term 3800 motor instead of L67, it sounds like a code name.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

...swapping a Series II L67 into one of my 86 Century GS's....PCM deal...The wiring is a huge concern.


I'll assume this is a motor/tranny swap....

Conclusion - Do a salvage bid on vehicle with engine/tranny you want....transfer parts...but complete wiring loom is required, plus computer.

I have heard that auto supplies can get adapter wiring "kits" when doing some swaps...but I'm not in touch with this world.

Imho, a complete waste of time...buy the vehicle with it already installed, for a FWD vehicle.

On a RWD vehicle, this is a different story...but kept in mind, if you need to have your dash lights working A-OK...it can be a pain to do this.

[skalor]

If you post some schematics for your year car I can tell you what changes you'll need to make. However, keep in mind that A-bodies are one of the harder swaps due to all the wiring changes needed because our factory ECM is located in the cabin. I worked on the wiring a couple hours a night for two weeks, but I also wanted it to look factory so I spend a lot of time trying to make it look good. If you know how to use a multimeter and soldering iron then you shouldn't have a problem rewiring the car. It just takes some time and patience.

[skalor]

Ok, In mho, I wouldn't spend 5 weeks swapping an dang motor! Be happy with what you got! And you don't have to write the pcm just get a pcm out of a car with a 3800 in it. Oh and by the way, we're more familar with the term 3800 motor instead of L67, it sounds like a code name.
I think it's good practice to list an engine by it's actual code and not it's name. Especially since there are seven different variations of the 3.8 V6 used in FWD GM cars alone.

[dcjredline]

I agree with SKALOR who is "WE" Techfizzle? Although I cant keep track of all the engine codes 3800's arent all the same. Just like a "small block Chevy" ARENT ALL THE SAME.


Side note to the rant: Guy came in (To AutoZone where I work part time) with a 30's hot rod one day and said "I need an alternator for a small block Chevy". I said "OK sir what year make and model is it for" He said "They are all the same just get me a small block one". KNOWING DAMN WELL he didnt have an alternator on it from a 89 Camaro BUT they have a small block Chevy in them I looked that up and went to the back to get it for him. When he opened it he said "This isnt going to work" I said well its for a small block Chevy from an 89 Camaro. He said "I need one from a 60's engine". To which I replied as you can all guess "OH, I thought they all were the same?, I'm sorry" He wasn't very happy BUT I SURE WAS!!!

[Jr's3800]

I agree with the both of you.. There are too many Variations of the 3800 to simply label it " 3800 "

You would be amazed of the changes in the 3800 line from 89-90-91-92-93-94-95 and then the total redesign... And when you get to the Series II 3800's the L36 had the injectors in the lower intake where the L67 Series II had the injector ports in the heads to make room for the M90...

LG3 3.8 V6( 86-88 )
LN3 3800
L27 3800 Tuned Port
L67 MFI Supercharged( Series I )
L36 Series II NA
L32 Series III Supercharged
L26 Series III NA

And then you have you little Brothers the 3.0 and 3300 Buick engines...

But for the 3800's it is too far spread to just call it a 3800..:)

[mickstan_VR]

Well I dont think a book is really in order here, a good website with all of the information and pictures would do just fine. If someone would like to document all of it(pics with explanations) we could put it up on eurosportvr.com. Even cardomain would work. I realize its a lot to do, but ya' have to start somewhere!

[BBrip84Oatsie95]

I agree with SKALOR who is "WE" Techfizzle? Although I cant keep track of all the engine codes 3800's arent all the same. Just like a "small block Chevy" ARENT ALL THE SAME.


Side note to the rant: Guy came in (To AutoZone where I work part time) with a 30's hot rod one day and said "I need an alternator for a small block Chevy". I said "OK sir what year make and model is it for" He said "They are all the same just get me a small block one". KNOWING DAMN WELL he didnt have an alternator on it from a 89 Camaro BUT they have a small block Chevy in them I looked that up and went to the back to get it for him. When he opened it he said "This isnt going to work" I said well its for a small block Chevy from an 89 Camaro. He said "I need one from a 60's engine". To which I replied as you can all guess "OH, I thought they all were the same?, I'm sorry" He wasn't very happy BUT I SURE WAS!!!

:lol::lol::lol: :rock:

[trilo68]

What kind of info fo you need. I have the shop manual for 86, it has all of the electrical systems in it. There is quite a bit involved. My engine/trans is a 2003 from a bonne SSEI. I would suggest getting a 2002 or older engine trans because there are some changes in the trans and the shift selector switch. And i would also suggest not using a bonneville since the aluminum oil pan is in the way of the passeger side engine mount, i had to modify mine. The engine and trans had all the correct bolt holes for the mounts that came off of the old 3.8. I am far from done, but the engine is in and bolted down. I am doing a custom instrument cluster, so i havent done any research on how to get the gauges to interface. I also have to make a custom A/C control circuit since i am eliminating the old ECM and dont want to bother interfacing it with any new controls. PM me with specifics for more details on what i have done.

-Max

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Would be some good info for sure. I would also like to see what all is needed to drop a 3.1 turbo engine into a AWD.

[BignastyGS]

If you post some schematics for your year car I can tell you what changes you'll need to make. However, keep in mind that A-bodies are one of the harder swaps due to all the wiring changes needed because our factory ECM is located in the cabin. I worked on the wiring a couple hours a night for two weeks, but I also wanted it to look factory so I spend a lot of time trying to make it look good. If you know how to use a multimeter and soldering iron then you shouldn't have a problem rewiring the car. It just takes some time and patience.

Is this what you are referring to?? Something in the lines of this??

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa105/bignastyGS_photos/86centurywiringschematic.jpg

[1995 Gold Ciera]

You know Skalor, you could make some decent money on the side with your swap. In a year or so I may consider wanting to swap in a 3800 S/C. However I'm nowhere near as skilled as you. People like myself would be willing to pay for your services:thumbsup:

[BignastyGS]

If he would just make a plug and play A body wiring harness and sell them...he'd make a bundle of cash as well..

[Electra_T_Type]

Ahh too bad no one makes a harness... Honda engine swaps are about the same in diffculty but they have everything to make easy

[skalor]

If he would just make a plug and play A body wiring harness and sell them...he'd make a bundle of cash as well..
There is not way to build a plug and play harness for an A-body. The reason for this is that our factory ECM in located inside the cabin. That means that all the gauge wiring from the PCM is already inside the cabin. Since this is the case there is no way to run a PCM in the engine bay like an L67 with rewiring the inside of the car. W-body guys have it easy because they came factory with an ECM in the engine bay. So when they go to make a harness they just have to run the same wiring to the connector on the firewall that supplied the gauges in the first place. This connector doesn't exist on A-bodies because the ECM is in the cabin. This is why it's not really possible to build a plug and play harness, because there is no plug there in the first place.

[skalor]

Is this what you are referring to?? Something in the lines of this??

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa105/bignastyGS_photos/86centurywiringschematic.jpg
Yes, if you can post all the ECM wiring along with the cluster schematics I can point you to the changes you'll need to make. Also, what year L67 are you going to use??