Looking at springs again

[jinxtigr]

OK, so I'm looking at springs again.

Going to Moog CC652 in front and CC667 in rear certainly tightened up the handling completely, but Fluffy ended up riding unusually high. That can't be so good.

Since you cannot get springs that are both stiffer rates and lower (or the same) ride height, I'm stuck trying to alter the new Moog springs. However, since they're much stiffer already, it gets around one problem- that of disabling part of the spring and having it bottom out too easily.

It looks like with the front springs, they're pigtail on one side and flat on the other- and I could cut a coil (or possibly two, but not advisable to do in one go) to make it go back to the stock ride height.

With the rear springs, they're pigtail on both ends and it appears like there is NOTHING I can do other than get some of those JC Whitney (or similar) spring clamps, clamp some of the coils together, and rely on the fact that they're already stiffer than stock springs and won't be bottoming out. The springs look like they have so little space between the coils that I'm not sure how you'd fit clamps in there... will have to look more closely at the real springs on the actual car.

It would be getting coils cut in front (returning to more or less stock ride height) and clamping coils in the back (also returning to basically stock ride height). In both cases the ride will continue to get harder, but I'm happy with that short of shaking the car completely apart :) it's not that shockingly rough now, despite the different springs.

Does this sound like I'm talking from a reality place? I'd rather get springs that are made right in the first place, but again, it seems like they don't exist so I can't really be yelled at for not having them- or for lowering the car on weak springs and bottoming out, since that's already well taken care of...

[ochy38]

i just got some springs from coil-springs.com. took a few weeks to get and were like 170 ish with shipping but will make it to order. mine are 25% firmer and 1.5 inches lower than stock heighht, hopefully they will be getting installed in the next month or so by me.

[jinxtigr]

Hey, really? Let me look into that then.

[jinxtigr]

Hang on, that's some sort of clearing house site. Who exactly did you use?

[ochy38]

hey sorry didnt notice the thread was replied too... anyway im sorry for tellin you that its actually coilsprings.com if i remember correctly. teh place is called coil spring specialties, they seem to do some pretty decent work. just expect a few weeks to get your order back

[jinxtigr]

Thanks! Seriously, $170 for FOUR springs? That's pretty impressive. My Moog alternate springs cost more than that...

[ochy38]

actually just the two fronts.. grabbed some u-van springs at the JY yesturday for 12 and change, so i guess you could say 185ish for everything. Jeez im sorry i keep misleading you!

[SCREECH]

actually just the two fronts.. grabbed some u-van springs at the JY yesturday for 12 and change, so i guess you could say 185ish for everything. Jeez im sorry i keep misleading you!

Ochy - I gotta jump in here as I'm just installing a USED set of Eibach springs onto some struts for my International and would like the ability to get new springs if I ever need to - they made you a set of A-body front lowering springs, and stiffer than stock, for $170 for the pair? I'd say that's not bad. Even a set of four shouldn't be more than $340, possibly less if you buy a whole set of four, no? I think that takes care of the no-more-Eibach-springs problem, no? :rock:

[jinxtigr]

Gee, I'm using van springs on my rears as well. Don't you find they ride very high? Are you going for a dropped front and jacked back? I'm on CC667 springs which are what were in vans, and though the station wagon fronts aren't too crazy high, these rears are kinda ridiculous.

The ride is much sportier at least- no scary wallowing around- but ride height is totally not good.

Maybe I can get a coil or so cut off my fronts, as that can be done and they're already stiffer enough to handle it, and then turn to coilsprings.com to get proper rears that are like the 667s but lowered? It's that or clamp them (maybe test it out with clamps first).

I know cutting the fronts will work if done properly because these are actually WRONG springs for the front. They're way stiffer than anything the factory would use and ride higher too. If they're cut with a hacksaw or grinder, they'll go to more of a normal ride height or lower and will continue to function- no bump stop hitting here! They just have to not fall out if totally loose, and I don't think cutting them will make them THAT much shorter.

But the rears are double pigtail on my '93 Century, so I can't cut those- and clamps have got to take up some of the usable travel remaining on the springs, and possibly abrade the adjacent coils of the springs. I have some concerns about clamps.

[dcjredline]

Dont cut a coil out of a spring. That is 1 the RICER way to do it, and 2 not very safe for you NOR the rest of your suspension.

[ochy38]

i havent installed them yet, jinxtigr. So i cant tell you how they ride, i am planning on cutting 2 coils off. and also am only using the van springs for the rear.

Don, i have heard how cutting the coils are bad, however since its a set of jy coils and its for the rear suspension, and also because 86 euro seems to have some knowledge (i hope) and says he did it with no problem, i figure it aint a bad idea. if it doesnt work, i throw the old ones back in there and i lost 12 bucks. its def not something i would attempt in the front, though, considering all of the important parts that could be screwed up if something were to happen. seems like the back is a bit safer.

SCREECH, yea it does seem like a good replacement for the lack of eibachs. Not that i have any idea how they (eibachs) ride, but i will def try to descibe mine to everyone when i get em in.

[jinxtigr]

Don: I'm talking about the front ones and they are station wagon springs, much stiffer than the stock ones. I'm convinced cutting a coil makes sense in this situation provided they're not loose at full extension, because they are already stiffer than intended and I won't be hitting any bump stops. It's possible it will just go back to STOCK ride height. It's a hair over, now.

ochy38- hope those aren't double pigtail! I'm in a real bind with my rear springs as the ones I've got are good parts but much too long. I got them to be stiffer, and they are that, but they ride way too high, and they're double pigtail so it is flat impossible to cut a coil off of them. This is why I'm talking about clamps or coilsprings.com...

I realise this would make the spring rate stiffer at both ends, but it feels like I still have some room to go stiffer. As far as coil cutting: I can only do it on the front, and it's on nonstock springs that are riding too high already and are 11.8" under load compared to 11.1" for what I had before.

The concern is, what I had before was 20.2" fully extended and what I have now is 18.3" fully extended. That still fits in the car with the suspension fully extended, but clearly I can't cut away so many coils that the spring would be loose under any conditions. I don't think that cutting one coil would do that, but if it did that would be a serious problem.

I have a homemade air intake plenum out of air conditioning duct parts, how's that for ricer? :D

[86euro]

Yup, I installed the van springs in the rear of my coupe with 1 3/4 coils cut off so the rear of the car is the same hight as the front. I could do this because my car is an '86 and does not have the pigtail ends. As far as ride quality goes, IT'S FANTASTIC! Cutting coils doesn't seem to matter, as long as it's the rear of a car with a straight axle/beam. I've driven hondas with cut rear coils, and it really effects them... makes them ride like a roller skate. I also cut the rear coils on my old '89 IROC so it would match the front with 2in drop spindles, and it did not change the ride quality either.

[jinxtigr]

Maybe they're just longer springs to start off with? It will certainly change the ride quality by increasing spring rate and reducing travel, but these aren't quite Hondas are they?

[86euro]

They actually were the same length as the stock coils, but they certainly were not weak like the stockies. Cutting them down did not effect the spring rate nearly as much as putting them in the car to begin with did (or would have... I didn't bother trying them un-cut). Ride quality is like a normal car now, not soft and squishy like a '76 Caddy. It's ridiculous how well they work for the application, the factory should have done it. Although, 1inch shorter shocks would be a good idea now. I'll look into that next.

[Zaloryan]

Why not purchase a tool from O'Reilly's that will compress the spring as an alternative to cutting off a coil? Just shooting around in the dark here...

[jinxtigr]

I ended up with one coil cut off the front springs, which worked great (could probably even do another coil without it getting ridiculous) and I'm right now attempting to put clamps on the rear springs, but I am not happy. I don't feel it's going well and I have to take up so much bloody space in these crazy variable-rate springs. I realise compressing springs takes a lot of force but that's exactly the problem... if everything was going smoothly and lining up nicely it would be one thing but I'm not happy with how it's going. Gonna back out of it for now and re-evaluate what to do.

[jinxtigr]

Also- is the rear of a Century really held on by the shocks alone, as it appears (and the lateral bar)?

Does that mean that if I get custom springs that have a uninstalled height of less than 12.2" (the current space at full extension) I can accomodate them safely by finding shocks that are shorter in length than the OEM size shocks?

[86euro]

Also- is the rear of a Century really held on by the shocks alone, as it appears (and the lateral bar)?

Does that mean that if I get custom springs that have a uninstalled height of less than 12.2" (the current space at full extension) I can accomodate them safely by finding shocks that are shorter in length than the OEM size shocks?

Correct on all accounts :)

I need (well, should) to find shorter rear shocks for my coupe too.