3300 Stalling

[Electra_T_Type]

Great to see this place up again :cool:
The 3300 in my '89 Century has a pretty bad problem that when I drive at more than 35% throttle it starts stalling/sputtering/hesitating than kicks in probably 5-7 seconds later. Fuel pump was replaced in may '06 and I replaced the fuel filter (Quick connect lines are great) and that helped a little bit still does it. I heard it could possibly be the fuel pressure regulator but I can't throw money in to it with out fixing it...

[Slacker]

Fuel injectors or a sensor? Is the engine throwing any codes when it stalls out?

[Electra_T_Type]

Nope no codes. Vacuum lline maybe?

[skalor]

Pull the vacuum line off the FPR and see if it runs better. Also, if there is gas inside the line then the FPR is bad. If you have access to a fuel pressure gauge it can't hurt to check the pressure in the rail. You can also ohm the injectors since they are easy to get on 3300s. They should all read about 12.5 ohms.

[dcjredline]

My guess would be the TPS, bring the TPS into AZ and have them test it. MAKE SURE they move the screwdriver in it SLOWLY as to be able to see the LED blink if it does you need a new one.

[Electra_T_Type]

Pull the vacuum line off the FPR and see if it runs better. Also, if there is gas inside the line then the FPR is bad. If you have access to a fuel pressure gauge it can't hurt to check the pressure in the rail. You can also ohm the injectors since they are easy to get on 3300s. They should all read about 12.5 ohms.
Thats what we did, hooked up a fuel pressure gauge read 35 through the range than when we disconnected the vacuum line from it it jumped to I think 43.
Good call on the tps I will for sure have to get that checked.
Forgot to mention in the first post but if the car is in park/neutral it only hesitates for maybe a seconds then revs up when I give it gas.

[CieraSL92]

Mine did the exact same thing. Plug wires, plugs (Ac-delco plat) and an O2 (Not related, just felt it should be done) corrected it.

How's it run with the MAF disconnected? It should take right off, but with alot less power.

[Pilrulz]

My money is on plug wires. My 90 Ciera with the 3300 went through plug wires regularly with the exact same symptoms. It's just a fact of life.

[Tuddi]

Check your fuel lines. If you have rubber lines before the fuel pump, those could be faulty and allowing air to be sucked by the pump, causing shortage of gasoline at higher speeds.

If you have such a problem you would normally not notice any gasoline leaks at all, but the air would get in just the same.

[Electra_T_Type]

My money is on plug wires. My 90 Ciera with the 3300 went through plug wires regularly with the exact same symptoms. It's just a fact of life.

Really? The wires only have around 15,000 miles on them.

[I stole grandma's cutty]

its definitely possible that it is the wires, I had replaced them on a honda I had owned and noticed an immediate difference in performance. I would say worst case scenario you have a nice new set of wires on your car. Maybe if you got them at a big chain store like wal-mart or sears automotive and were able to keep that packaging intact you could return them with no questions asked. Even if they looked used you could claim you simply got the wrong ones or whatever and get your money back anyway. Or just keep your eye out for a fellow a-body and borrow their plug wires lol

[Electra_T_Type]

Well I have no problem working a slim jim but that doesn't mater since the plug wires are under warranty from AutoZone anyways.

[CieraSL92]

I've re read this, with a clearer head. It's a plug or plug wire issue. Def. spark since you have ruled out fuel. I'd pull the plugs, clean, regap and replace (or return) the plug wires. The ignition timing is electronically controlled so you can rule that out, since this has no cam sensor to go bad and the crank sensor is almost always a go or no-go thing. That does not elimnate valve timing, but I would be shocked if it were a valve issue.

Inspect plugs and replace the wires.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

when I drive at more than 35% throttle it starts stalling/sputtering/hesitating than kicks in probably 5-7 seconds later.


If this is always consistent, check:

1. Coils - ohm check
2. Ignition module - If they can check it.

But, this don't make sense....Is your O2 Sensor working? Been replaced recently?

I recently bought a vehicle that had a problem at 30 mph....end of story, vehicle was running on default computer program since O2 sensor was not working.

If you can clear your computer, via battery disconnect, I would clear it, and drive it...assuming your O2 sensor is good and working.

[Pilrulz]

Really? The wires only have around 15,000 miles on them.

Unbelieveably, yes. I had to replace my plug wires every 10-15K, or it would stall/sputter/hesitate. Not at low throttle, not at high throttle, but at about 35%, just as you describe.

[Electra_T_Type]

Changed the wires, big improvement in preformance although it still hesitates a little bit, anything else to check for?

[CieraSL92]

MAF sensor should be cleaned without touching it. That will probably clear it all up.

[Electra_T_Type]

Carb Cleaner or electrical cleaner? Any detailed instructions on this?

[CieraSL92]

No detailed instructions on it. I've seen it done, probably should have paid more attention huh. Anyway, you'll probably want something that leaves absolutely no residue so injection cleaner is out (Couple sources say it leaves a dry-non filming type coating)

Electrical cleaner and maybe the softest material you can find to wipe it off with. The oil from your hands will destroy it, be aware.

[centurycoupe]

i used lens cleaner on mine.unbelievable difference.also reduced emmisions nox by 50%.

[CieraSL92]

Yeah a former member actually suggested it. He also had a link on that being done as a emission repair on a 93 Century. I think his name was bruce, but don't qoute me on that.

[BBrip84Oatsie95]

I found...

MAF Cleaner (http://www.amazon.com/CRC-Mass-Flow-Sensor-Cleaner/dp/B000EGH57G)

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Carb Cleaner or electrical cleaner? Any detailed instructions on this?

Cleaning the Mass AirFlow Sensor (MAF)
(http://www.fordscorpio.co.uk/cleanmaf.htm)

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Carb Cleaner or electrical cleaner? Any detailed instructions on this?

Auto Clinic: Maintain Your MAF Sensor, A Power Surge Precaution and More (http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/how_to/3297276.html)

"I used to use aerosol carb cleaner, but CRC MAF Sensor Cleaner is new and less prone to dissolving other components in the MAF sensor. "

[centurycoupe]

Yeah a former member actually suggested it. He also had a link on that being done as a emission repair on a 93 Century. I think his name was bruce, but don't qoute me on that.

u been quoted, that was me ,changed my handle to centurycoupe.but the problem was with my ciera.

[wroberts]

Thats what we did, hooked up a fuel pressure gauge read 35 through the range than when we disconnected the vacuum line from it it jumped to I think 43.
Good call on the tps I will for sure have to get that checked.
Forgot to mention in the first post but if the car is in park/neutral it only hesitates for maybe a seconds then revs up when I give it gas.

Leave the Fuel Pressure regulator unpluged. The injectors need at least 40psi to operate properly. The FPR is responsible for maintaining a good 40-47 psi under various loads. I'd had this same phantom problem, new wires, plugs, ignition mod, computer, O2, TPS, etc... checked resistance on the injectors and listened to them. Once I unplugged it and plugged the vac line, it's ran great for the past few weeks. It technically needs replaced, but if your pressure doesn't go above 48psi, you're fine.

Will

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Once I unplugged it and plugged the vac line, it's ran great for the past few weeks. It technically needs replaced, but if your pressure doesn't go above 48psi, you're fine.

On 3.8 motor, the purpose was to give more fuel when accelerating...since there is a vacuum drop.

The computer assumes this circuit is working....but whatever...I'd find out what's happening...before jerry-rigging it.

[Electra_T_Type]

Tryed unplugging the MAF. Floored it a couple of times and took off with suprising power, although after flooring it a few times it bogged out.

[JimV]

i used lens cleaner on mine.unbelievable difference.also reduced emmisions nox by 50%.

Hi Bruce, I was wondering if that was you :)

[CieraSL92]

A fellow massite huh Jim? What part? I'm up in Methuen in the Merrimack valley (See rust/snow/other corrosive belt)

But yeah, try cleaning the MAF. Vacuum leaks too. Is it like it just bogs for a moment then stalls, or just stalls as if someone turned off the key?

[Electra_T_Type]

Bogs out than taking off while still somewhat bogging.

[CieraSL92]

The bog makes me think the MAF sensor is dirty. Have you tried cleaning it? Fuel pressure okay?

Seafoaming it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[Electra_T_Type]

Cleaned the MAF and while I was there cleaned the throttle opening and it still does it.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Cleaned the MAF and while I was there cleaned the throttle opening and it still does it.

1. Disconnect Battery for more than 30 seconds.

2. Can you locate OBD-1 unit that shows what's happening, while you drive? As in observing TPS voltage, MAF, etc?

Having a delayed reaction is suggesting an input sensor might be wack-iee....the question is, which one.

Oh, after disconnecting the battery for more than 30 seconds, when motor is COLD, then start vehicle up, and see if it does it. Needless to say, do this on your day off from work...you wouldn't want your vehicle to "go ahead...and make my day.":eek:

[dcjredline]

Have you tested the TPS yet? All the other things you have been doing and paying money, why not go try something that is FREE?

[Jr's3800]

Have you tested the TPS yet? All the other things you have been doing and paying money, why not go try something that is FREE?

After reading this whole thread, I couldn't agree more..

Get the TPS tested... These cars are very dependant on having the correct TPS signal or Voltage.. I would have it checked..

Also has the MAF been cleaned? I know its not really needed but I always like to keep a couple bottles of CRC MAF Cleaner around..

Also do you know anyone with a Scantool that will read the ECM, this way you can watch the live data for any sensor twitches ?

[Electra_T_Type]

I don't know anyone with a obd1 scanner.
Disconnect the battery! How could I of forgot this one? If the battery was easyer to get to...
I'm going to the junkyard so I'm going to get like three TPS because its kinda hard to get the one on the car tested because it the only car we have to drive at the moment.

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

If the battery was easyer to get to..


Alternate method to disconnecting the battery is to leave your lights on overnight; works everytime:eek:

[TheGutlassCutlass]

This is a very typical MAF sensor issue. Even though you cleaned it, the "hot film" style sensor just gets old. Buy a new one from an auto parts store and put it on. If it makes no difference, just return it and say you didn't need it--so you're out no money.

[dcjredline]

Have you been on the boards before? Your advice of just buy this and it will work seems to be expensive, and the just buy it to try and return it is just a dirty suggestion. You want to buy a part that has been returned before? I sure dont want to drive home with a used "new" part just to find out someone else burnt it up testing it out. Also most stores can see that it was plugged in and will give you a hard time for a return.

I guess some people just dont have a Conscience (SP?) but MAYBE he does.

[LordDurock]

Alternate method to disconnecting the battery is to leave your lights on overnight; works everytime:eek:

just dont for get to charge it the nexted morring or do it when it could frezzse.........................:eek:

[Jr's3800]

Have you been on the boards before? Your advice of just buy this and it will work seems to be expensive, and the just buy it to try and return it is just a dirty suggestion. You want to buy a part that has been returned before? I sure dont want to drive home with a used "new" part just to find out someone else burnt it up testing it out. Also most stores can see that it was plugged in and will give you a hard time for a return.

I guess some people just dont have a Conscience (SP?) but MAYBE he does.

Don, It looks like the Other Don from another GM Type board is Quoting you again.. LOL

And again I agree...

The Buick 3300-3800 engines are picky about MAF issues... More than most of the time if the MAF is taking a Crap the ECM will set of a code 34.. I will not Doom a MAF that can cost upwards of $200+, and a lot of the time the Reman units or New units you get at Auto Zone or Advance are junk, either from the word go or fail in short order..

If the MAF was an issue it would be a lot cheaper to hit up a U Pull It yard and snag one from another 3300... And if you do your research you may find that the Sensor crosses over to Other Buick V6's...

Now, I am wondering..... Has the original posted had a chance to test out the TPS? By chance are there any 21-22 codes stored in the ECM?

Almost Forgot.... It stated in another post too, But... How is the Fuel Pressure?

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Cleaned the MAF and while I was there cleaned the throttle opening and it still does it.

Here read this: MAF sensors can be tested either on or off. the vehicle (http://www.wellsmfgcorp.com/pdf/Counterpoint3_2.pdf)

[CieraSL92]

Easy enough way to test the MAF. Disconnect it and drive. The SES light will be on, and fuel economy will suffer a bit. But your not leaving it like this.

******
If the SES does not illuminate with the MAF disconnected, it means the ECM is braindead or there is a short somewhere.
******

$300 is alot to spend on a part that may or may not fix a problem..

[85_Ciera_Rebuild]

Cleaned the MAF.


Hitachi MAF sensor. (http://www.gatewaycleanair.com/mechanic/air4_4/dirtymaf.htm)

[Jr's3800]

First Brake or Carb cleaner would absolutely not be my choice for cleaning a MAF sensor... Neither would a tooth brush...

Cleaning a Throttle Body with a tooth brush( MAF removed ) and Throttle body and intake cleaner would be another story..

On the 3300 and 3800 I don't know how you could even clean the MAF with a toothbrush without bending the wire... And this wire is very thin and delicate..

There are a couple of things that can be used to clean one such as the MAF Cleaner...

And on some newer cars with the 3800, its almost impossible to get at the wires with a tooth brush( GM got smart there, I wonder why ?)

On the 3300, the ECM uses this sensor for both acceleration and deceleration purposes.. The MAF will see a massive drop in flow as idle... If unplugged and idling, if you rev it up you will get a stall.. If you feather it you can bring it back to idle..

At idle do the tap test.... Does the idle change?

At Idle, unplg the MAF... Does the car idle better?

And check the computer for codes... It may help to know if there are any stored..

Make sure you pull the codes before you do any testing!!

[Electra_T_Type]

Could this be an alternator issue? Sometimes at night when I drive the battery light comes on, and tonight I was at a stop light and the car turned off and woulden't start until I turned the headlights off.

[dcjredline]

Sounds like it to me.

Dont fight with it BRING THE ALTERNATOR TO AZ OR Advance and they will test it for you.

[Jr's3800]

I agree there have that Alt Tested.. I thought the T Type Century's Had a Volt Meter?

But anything under 11v and these systems start getting touchy... By the time you hit 10v you are almost dead in the water... If you get to 9v you are dead in the water..

SO I agree... Have the alt checks out

[Electra_T_Type]

The alternator is easy enough to take off to test so I can do that easily.
No this is the 90' Century 3300, my T Type is a '87 3.8.

[Jr's3800]

The alternator is easy enough to take off to test so I can do that easily.
No this is the 90' Century 3300, my T Type is a '87 3.8.

My Bad..

Then you must have a CS Series 105 Amp unit.... These are known to fail... Let us know how it tests... Also are the battery cables clean and free of corrosion?

[Electra_T_Type]

Battery cables good and new alternator put it, the old left me stranded.
Coming back to this with a clearer head and done some research alot of people who have the same problem usually say its the ignition control module, I'm going to get a used one to try it out.

[Electra_T_Type]

Ignition control module, and MAF are ruled out. Now on to the TPS.