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Tuddi
09-19-2007, 07:52 AM
Nice to see the site in it's new clothes!

Well, not that it matters, but I was a new member on the old forums, banging my head on the wall due to my Celebrity 85's vacuum problem and gasoline consumption problem. It was down to 8,45 miles per gallon, and here (Peru) the gallon of gasoline is well over $ 5. All is good with the car now though... after I was informed of the carb in the car being from a 4 banger Toyota, I bought an original Rochester carb and reconnected the vacuum cannister after (?) many years of disengagement.... now the Celeb feels and handles like a dream... but since many dreams turn into nightmares, I recon I might experience that sooner rather than later.

With the new (old, but refurbished) carb and the vacuum lines correctly (?) connected, the consumption has gone from the before mentioned 8,45 miles per gallon to 22,62 miles per gallon. Quite a welcome change....

Next on the list of things to do, is to get new front door handles (exterior) and a side view mirror on passenger side (there's never been one there).... then I desperately want to make a new dashboard in the car... and a bit further in the future I want it re-painted and look like new.... the cost for that down here ranges from $300 - $700.

Burgundy Ciera
09-19-2007, 12:52 PM
Not to be off topic but I really love the way
your car looks in that pic.

dcjredline
09-19-2007, 02:22 PM
Wow your gas is expensive but your paint is CHEAP.

Tuddi
09-19-2007, 06:04 PM
Yes, the gasoline is expensive... $5.49 per gallon of 97 octane... and the paintwork... it is dirt cheap. Included in the price is complete removal of previous paint, repair of every dent and rust and cracks, filler, sanding down, primer 3 layers of paint and a couple of layers of clear coat urethane. That's so cheap that there is no way not to have it done.

Slacker
09-19-2007, 07:46 PM
You put 97 in your car =-o I only put 87. :P

I think I read in the manual that the car can handle as low as 84? (but where you'd get that I don't even know. :))

Tuddi
09-19-2007, 11:57 PM
We have it down here in Peru... 84 is the only leaded gasoline available, and costs around 3,75 for a gallon. I won't be using it due to the lead. There's enough pollution in the air without me adding to it. Normally I fill it up with 90 octane, but prefer to fill with the highest octane for every 3 tanks or so, to clean out the engine.... probably no need for it, but it's an old habit of mine.

I stole grandma's cutty
09-21-2007, 12:26 AM
I like how whoever had the car before you improvised with a 4 cylinder carb on your car, how did they even get it to bolt on? The worst I have had recently is whoever had my car before me jammed the wrong bulb into the front corner signal marker. Amazingly it worked for some time but it would get so hot that it had melted the inside of the lens. The lens was salvageable so it was only a $3 fix to replace the bulb thankfully.

Tuddi
09-21-2007, 02:31 AM
There was an adoption plate bolted to the original placement, with rods sticking up for the Toy carb. Pretty well done tbh. But it simply couldn't feed the engine properly when passing traffic on long stretches of road with the pedal to the floor. It would simply stall due to not enough gasoline flowing through it. The things that have been done to this car ... :rolleyes:

I've literally brought it back from eternal death. Almost everything in it has been bought new or fixed since I bought it in the beginning of May this year.

I still hope that I can regard it as a reliable car some day soon. It used to be a police car here in Peru (still has the sirene) and that explains the lack of maintainance on it throughout the years... Nothing worked properly in it when I got it... except the side mirror on driver's side and both passenger doors in the back.... I'm being quite honest here... not much else worked.

Tuddi
10-15-2007, 03:21 PM
I went on a short vacation up into the Andean with my family last week, and it was quite a memorable trip. Here is what happens when multiple distractions from one's wife take place in a short period of time.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/ChevreCliffHanger.jpg

Here is what we came across on our way back to Lima, still around 4000 meters (13.150 ft) above sealevel:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CrashedBus1.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CrashedBus2.jpg

It's not only that the roads are bad, but the drivers are simply below any existing standards. This one probably fell asleep while driving, went off the road on the right side, tried to swing back in, resulting in the bus flipping.

My wife's brother was way up in northern Peru last week, on his way up there, he saw 3 busses which had gone off the road and rolled over... and 2 more on his way back to Lima. Then there are all the busses he could not have seen during the 24 hours of darkness on the way north and back.

Not a very pretty picture for passengers in other busses to see...

Peruvian drivers are probably the WORST drivers in the world. They have NO inkling about laws or regulations or common decency on the roads. They are worse behaving in the traffic than one would expect from a pig behind a wheel of a car.....

What Peruvian transportation looks like on a good day?

Here a little glimpse:
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/PeruvianTransport1.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/PeruvianTransport2.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/PeruvianTransport3.jpg

Here is a road sign directing one to Paradise (in Spanish Paradise is "El Paraiso")

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/ElParaiso.jpg

We were already in Perudise, and felt no urge to go to Paradise...

Here we were at 4100 meters (13,451 ft) altitude, seen in the review mirror:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/4100ReviewMirror.jpg

And a typical sight in the mountains; an old woman dressed in traditional skirts and with a hat.. they all seem to be stuck in the same patterns up there.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/OldWomanWithDonkey.jpg

And here a young mother with her child, riding a donkey, which is a very common "tool" for transport of everything.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/MotherAndChildOnDonkey.jpg

The kids and I outside ruins dating back to what is thought to be the oldest known culture in South America; the "Chavin de Huantar" ruins were quite impressing ... I still don't understand WHY anyone would build them in the first place. There is a lot of passage-ways underground... and I found it amazing that anyone would build this. The stone head on the wall is named "Cabeza Clava"

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/MeAndTheKidsOutsideRuins.jpg

And here a picture of a coalmine... it's right by the side of the road, and is bigger than most of the other mines we passed. Generally, the mines are just holes made directly into the mountain wall from the road. We have probably passed 50 such mines... only appearing as a small and narrow entrance hole from the roadside:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CoalMine1.jpg

And rocks DO fall from the mountain sides everywhere:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/RockSlide1.jpg

Oh... you thought that looked unsafe? How about the next one... where I am driving around 2 meters above the pavement, which is totally buried under a landslide, and no effort has been made to clear the road... That particular area has quite terrible road conditions. To be on the roads there is a real threat to one's life. When we got back a little later in the afternoon, new rocks had fallen in the few hours since we had passed the first time.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/RockSlide2.jpg

CieraSL92
10-15-2007, 03:41 PM
Not too bad. Any suspension damage?

Glad to see your all okay. I drown out distractions from my girlfriend by playing the radio (it's usually mindless chatter about hair or work anyway)

Tuddi
10-15-2007, 03:44 PM
And higher up yet:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Kahuish4516m.jpg

And here a sign reading "Funeral service agency and hairdressing - Leon"

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/FunerariaLeon.jpg

I mean... why not make a business and flag a sign reading: "Mortuary Services and Fresh Meat at bargain prices".... it is about as tasteful as going to have one's hair done by the undertaker.

And a few normal views from little towns we went to and through:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/NormalView1.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Door2.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Balcony1.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Door1.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Door3.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Door4Shop.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Door5.jpg

Here the last picture for now... my daughter Hjara threatening to eat the Lama alive:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/HjaraLlama.jpg

Bear over with me posting all these images, but I thought you'd like to get a peek view at how things look down here (seen through my camera lens).

Tuddi
10-15-2007, 03:55 PM
Not too bad. Any suspension damage?

Glad to see your all okay. I drown out distractions from my girlfriend by playing the radio (it's usually mindless chatter about hair or work anyway)

No damages from this little humping... but the next day the oilpan hit a rock on one of the rocky roads and got a cut, draining the engine for oil (on a mountain side 4200 meters up), with no access to repair shop, oil or anything. Fortunately I had brought additional oil with me "just in case"... and I was able to seal the cut with heat resistent silicone I also bought before the trip "just in case", and the car made it all the way back to Lima with that emergency repair. It was helluva cold up there where the car stopped with the cut, needle-ice rain, and I was only dressed in shorts, polo-shirt sandals and my hat. It was a big relief to me when it became clear to me that the oil leak was plugged... cause otherwise I would had been forced to leave the car where it was to take my family to a safe place and find a mechanic (more than 60 miles away) who could weld the cut.... but most likely I would had returned only to find the car stripped of everything... or totally disappeared (stolen).

It did have major problems in these altitudes.... probably it lost over 60% of it's torque due to the lack of oxigen in the air... passing other traffic was like sitting on a donkey and try to pass a speeding Corvette. Once down from the high altitudes, the car was fully functioning again with a lot of power to spare.

For the human engine, the altitude was a major problem as well... a simple thing such as breathing, was a major effort... the fine blood vessels in one's nose would burst, headache and general bad physical feeling bothered the whole family, apart of our youngest who showed no signs of any ailments.

dcjredline
10-15-2007, 08:06 PM
I LOVE the pictures. Wont hear me complaining about too many.

Slacker
10-15-2007, 08:38 PM
Amazing pictures!

Glad to hear you lucked out with the oil pan patch!

Tuddi
10-15-2007, 10:53 PM
Thanks. Photographing is one of my professions...

I went to a workshop today to have an estimate on fixing the cut in the oilpan. The owner wasn't available, so I didn't get a price quote, but I was told the engine would have to be lifted out so that the oilpan could be removed and fixed. It is badly dented, and that dent has to be hammered from the inside... meaning it has to come off. Is that right? It can't be removed without taking the engine out?

I wonder if I could have someone to weld steel pins with bottom stoppers to the underside of the oilpan, and pull the dent out that way... it would save a lot of time and money. Will look into that tomorrow if you guys declare it being impossible to remove it without taking out or lifting up the engine.

Also have to change the waterpump... bought a new one before the trip to the andean, and today the old one started leaking for the first time. So I am a little bit ahead of the problems now... and that's something positive.

86euro
10-16-2007, 01:11 AM
I LOVE the pictures. Wont hear me complaining about too many.

X2.:)

dcjredline
10-16-2007, 02:02 AM
Most engines in the A's need to at least be picked up a little cause the cradle that holds them in is in the way of things like the oil pan to come out. Its a shame they designed it that way but.

Tuddi
10-17-2007, 05:11 AM
Most engines in the A's need to at least be picked up a little cause the cradle that holds them in is in the way of things like the oil pan to come out. Its a shame they designed it that way but.

Thanks... so I'll have someone to weld nuts to the bottom of the pan, attach a steel cable, hooked up with a heavy hammer, and that way hammer/pull the dent down (welding the cut is easy enough when the oil has been removed from the pan. Welding a skidplate to the bottom of the pan should be easy enough as well.

Yes, it is a shame it was designed like that... one should be able to take the pan away without having to involve an engine removal team :)

I think I will go with my plan of pulling it down though. It is a very common method used to fix damaged body parts, and I have used it many times in the past to pull out doors and fenders.

Tuddi
10-20-2007, 04:25 AM
Here is a picture of the oilpan. It is so badly damaged, that the oil pin (the one used to measure the oil level in the engine) is pushed 1 inch up from it's normal position.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BangedInOilpan.jpg

The emergency repair I made has started to leak a little bit (the red/oily piece)... only a few drops, but i'm going to have to attend to this shortly. Changed the waterpump today, and all of a sudden the engine stopped sounding like marbles in a can... the old pump was well beyond dead.

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-20-2007, 11:39 AM
From what I am seeing in that last picture, I would suggest replaciong the oil pan, as well as the motor mount under the harmonic balancer, and probly the tranny mounts. Your oil pan, and tranny pan should not be hanging below the engine cradle, but instead they should be level, or just above the bottom level of the engine cradle. Since you have to lift the whole assembly up, and not remove, to replace the motor mounts at the harmonic balancer, and it makes it easier to replace the tranny mounts too, replace or repair the oil pan at the same time. I am sure that one of us could find one and ship it to you, if you wanted.

86euro
10-20-2007, 04:55 PM
Be sure to keep that thing at low rpms if you're still driving it! I'm sure the oil pan is mashed up against the pick-up tube for the oil pump. Not enough oil flow for higher rpm use, and even taking it easy, there's likely crap from the bottom of the pan being sucked into the pump which can cause it to fail too. When the pan is off, replace the pump too.

Tuddi
10-20-2007, 06:11 PM
Yikes... you think it's that bad?

I had new motormounts installed in May, shortly after I bought the car, I am not sure if the one by the harmonic balancer (which also needs to be changed) was changed... I paid for it, but that's no guarantee for it having been changed, since I was not in the workshop that did the work for me back then... and other things they did at the same time, really sucked. All other work on the car I have done myself, or... in case of work involving tools I don't have access to, I have stood over the mechanics and helped out with the work which was to be done.

Another thing... can anyone explain to me the following tranny problems I am experiencing:

Problem 1:

When the car is cold, and I put it in "R", the tranny reacts immediately.

When I put it in "D" (and/or "2"/"1") it does not react at all... unless I rev the engine several times... then it kind of "kicks into gear".... if I move it back to neutral, park or reverse, and then back into drive... it's the same thing... until the car has been running for a little while.

Is this normal, or does this indicate a problem of some kind? There's more than enough hydrofluid in the transfer case... so that's not the issue.

Problem 2:

When driving, the tranny shifts to 3rd gear too quickly, and it is accompanied with ignition rattling (or whatever it is called when the engine is underpowered). It should stay in 2nd gear longer, and shift to 2nd gear earlier when gassing up.

I know it's the TV cable that supposedly decides how it changes, and I had gotten it to make the shifts perfectly after I got in the Rochester carb (throwing out the adopted Toyota crap)... During the trip to the Andean, it behaved perfectly, shifted like a dream.... but once down to the lowlands on the way from the mountains, it went to changing to 3rd gear too early. I hadn't moved the TV cable at all, and haven't done so until now... in the hope it will "get better" by itself.... but that's obviously not going to happen.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/TVcableAdjustment.jpg

Which way should I go (theoretically) for correcting the shift problem... moving the cable right or left?

And I just found another problem (isn't there supposed to be day's without new problems in this car? )

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BrokenFrame.jpg

Yups, broken frame under the harmonic balancer... welding to be done....

Crap!

And the torsion bar rubbers need changing as well...

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/TorsionBarBushing.jpg

I shouldn't be under the car with the camera... it's like looking for problems .... and be guaranteed to find them :)

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-20-2007, 07:26 PM
On the TV cable, take it completely out of adjustment, so that it actually moves on its own when you press the gas peddle down (engine off of course), then put your foot on the gas peddle (engine off again) and put it to the floor. Your TV cable is now back in adjustment.

A slow reacting tranny usually means there is something gummed up internally on the tranny valve body. You might start with doing a complete tranny service (replace the filter, and fluid) and see if that helps. But I think that would probly just be putting a bandaid on a larger problem.

As far as the ignition rattle you were talking about, that sounds almost like its still slightly out of time. But I know you had a hell of a time finding the timing stuff to begin with, and on top of that, I am not all that knoledgeable on carb cars. I am a Fuel Injected man myself.

As far as your engine cradle goes, I would recomend replacement. I know that involves some work, but you will be 1/4 way there when you go to replace the harmonic balancer, might as well do the job right. I dont recomend welding on those cradles. Just my opinion there.

Tuddi
10-20-2007, 09:24 PM
Thanks for your input!

Yes, the timing is off. Last time I had it adjusted with a timing gun... it sounded too loose to be right, but what the heck... one is so used to trust electronic devices rather than one's better judgement... so I accepted the time tuning... but then I discovered that the harmonic balancer was damaged (the outer metal wheel was loose from the inner one (the plastic/rubber seal between them was cracked and bad... no bond between them).... so electronic tuning is out of the the question. Before writing this, I was out changing the ignition timing according to my ears... and now the ignition rattle is completely gone.... I was born and raised up with carbed cars... for me simplicity is the key to quality. I would probably be like a politician in a polygraph test if I'd have to find a problem in a fuelinjected car.... having no idea what to do with myself.

I'm afraid I don't understand your advice on the TV cable adjustment.... Could you try to rephrase it?

And as to the situation with the engine cradle... I'll have it welded... hoping the best. Got to get a new harmonic balancer and engine support under it (you were right there... it's as good as non-existing... it's floating on silicone some F*** up has pumped in there).... Tranny fluid change with filter change... with a total service on it at the same time.... I think anything else would be like peeing on oneself in the swimming-pool, in order to keep the warmth.... a quite limited solution.

I sure like the car, but darn... it is like having a second wife... the wife who constantly gives one all the un-needed problems.

86euro
10-20-2007, 10:57 PM
Here is the crankshaft that came out of my 2.8 from the '86 4door celeb. Upon disassembly, I discovered the previous owner had jacked the car up by the oil pan. This cut off oil flow to the pump, which caused a spun main bearing, which in turn, broke the crank in half. This dent, BTW, was smaller than yours. However, I don't know how long it took for this to happen, but the oil filter looked brand new.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e278/86blackiroc/100_3858.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e278/86blackiroc/100_3860.jpg

Tuddi
10-21-2007, 06:32 AM
Humping angels... I don't want your crank!! This is a killer!

Shikes and crikey! I know my "dent" is massive... but hopefully there is nothing bad brewing behind it!

Tuddi
10-24-2007, 11:23 PM
On the TV cable adjustment I came across this explaination, and it should be doable for me too ... as I read it... (tomorrow).


Written by: Mike Ervin (http://www.73-87.com/7387garage/drivetrain/tvcable.htm)

The Throttle Valve Cable is attached to the throttle linkage. When the throttle is depressed, the cable is "pulled" progressively with throttle position. In addition to providing forced downshifts (kickdown), and progressively later (higher speed) upshifts at higher throttle settings, the throttle valve also adjusts main line pressure in the transmission. Operating a transmission with the TV cable out of adjustment, can, not only produce early, or late upshifts, but incorrect line pressure, as well. What this means, in simple terms, is that TV pressure that is too low, will produce main line pressure that is also too low, and will eventually "burn" the transmission clutches.
To adjust, on the throttle linkage you will have three things attached if you have cruise, two if not. One of them is of course for the gas, the one that is for the cruise control has a long slot in it (if you have cruise control), and the other is the TV cable (which is actually a cable), this is the one you need to adjust. Adjust the cable so that it will be pulled all the way, when the throttle is simultaneously opened all of the way (with the engine turned off, of course). The way to do this is, bolted to the manifold is a bracket which this cable runs through. With close inspection you will see it has a sort of D shaped button you can depress and slide the sleeve (cable housing) back and forth. The sleeve is what you want to adjust, by depressing the button. Press the D button and slide the sleeve toward the firewall as far as it will go and let go of the button. Now open the throttle to the wide open position and release. You should be able to hear the sleeve click (rachet) as it slides through the cable housing. Make sure that the cable returns (with no binding) when the throttle is released. This preliminary adjustment will frequently be too "high", and the throttle pressure will have to be reduced, to attain proper shift points. I prefer to start with an adjustment that is "too high", and then work down, rather than "too low" and work up.

To raise throttle pressure (and raise shift points, and make "kickdown" more responsive) move the cable housing towards the firewall (away from the throttle linkage), as you simultaneously depress the button on the cable housing, move the cable housing away from the carburetor or (throttle body) to increase throttle pressure. Move the cable housing adjustment a small amount at a time (1 click or 1/16" or so), a small adjustment can often make a world of difference. Naturally, to lower the pressure (and lower shift points, and make "kickdown" less sensitive), move the cable housing towards the front of the truck.


http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/tvcableadjustment.gif

CieraSL92
10-25-2007, 12:02 AM
I remember seeing instructions on how to dissasemble and clean the valve body on a 4T60 transaxle. I know that's not your transmission, but delayed shifting of more than a second is abnormal. Course an old Grand Am my parents had did this for two years. The headgasket went before the transmission did.

Tuddi
11-13-2007, 02:21 AM
Today I went to a paintshop, asking for a total stripdown of the car, having everything down to bare metal (inside and out) preparing the bodyparts with fillers etc, prime it, paint it with 3 layers of the final colour and top it off with 2 coats of clear urethane. The job would have 3 years of guarantee against failures. It would take them one month to do the job.....

... and the price they asked for was 666 dollars.

Not much, but still money, and then again, it would be money well spent. This would include coating under the car as well to protect against rocks and sound of course.

I will be going to other places as well and ask for prices and conditions.

86euro
11-13-2007, 05:31 AM
American dollars!? If so, that's CHEAP:eek:

Tuddi
11-13-2007, 02:21 PM
Yes US dollars, but over here it's rather expensive.

You can have your car painted for 300 bucks or less.... but then you are most likely not getting a good job. I want something that lasts for as long as I have the car, without any failures I would be unsatisfied with.New upholstery could be nice as well at the same time.

CieraSL92
11-13-2007, 03:13 PM
A decent paintjob here is like what $1000-2200

Maaco has an 'ambassador paint service' for $250 but I've heard it's not all that great.

I'd kill for a decent paintjob at $666

mickstan_VR
11-13-2007, 10:21 PM
ohhhh thats a baaaad number. how 'bout $667?

Tuddi
01-04-2008, 11:14 PM
Here a picture of what's under my distributor cap, and I have a couple of questions.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/IgnitionOpenNumbered.jpg

What sensor is marked #1 ? If I unplug it, nothing happens. Not even "check engine" light in the dashboard.

#2 is the Ignition Control Module (ICM) right? This one has 3+2 legs, and I have not found any reference to that combination anywhere... any ideas where I could get a replacement for it from?

#3 is open. The cover was made out of some plastic that was all cracked and broke into pieces when I touched it the first time.

#4 shows insulation tape wrapped around wires that were cracked and caused the engine to stall due to shorting out. (That's my theory in any case... no such problems since I taped the wires)

#5 Insulation plastic cracked and broken ... really needs to see new parts.

#6 The insulation plastic is 100% replaced with insulation tape due to the plastic being in 1000 pieces

#7 basic protection against shorting out. The wires were damaged after contact with the distributor base.

Clearly I need to get new ignition parts, and that might solve the idle problem... but I'm not happy about not finding a replacement ICM.

Rock auto only has 4+3 legged and 2+2 legged models listed for this car (85 carbed celebrity 2.8 engine (vin X)

mickstan_VR
01-05-2008, 12:32 AM
wow...I wonder if your car has the correct distributor?

I just called my local autozone and they don't have it either. They had 4 or 6 pin. 6 pin for fuel injected. strange....

Not sure what sensor 1 is. My engine is far different than yours. I would guess a temp. sensor.

You're wiring fix looks fine, as long as no wires are touching each other. But I would replace it if at all possible. And if those wires were cracked and brittle...then others probably are too.

dcjredline
01-05-2008, 02:52 AM
After doing a little research on the AZ site I came across this:
http://www.autozone.com/images/cds/gif/large/0900823d800f13f5.gif

Which led me to GOOGLE an EMR module and then I found this site. Looks like someone was doing this EXACT conversion to your car Tuddi!!!

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-forum/t-50062.html

Then when I look up a 1980 Olds 88 with a 4.3L 260 engine I come up with this module

http://www.autozone.com/images/products/wl2/wl2dr137003.jpg
About this product:
Part Number: DR137
Weight: 0.11 lbs.
Warranty: LLT
Pricing: $34.99

Says my AZ can order it, would take 2 days to get.


HOPE THIS HELPS A LITTLE!!!

Tuddi
01-05-2008, 03:22 AM
It sure looks as if you are right on your suspection of the distributor not belonging to this car.

I have spent an hour or so looking for ICM's, and seem to have found a replacement unit for mine.... only thing is that it's never been intended for use on the 2.8 engine. http://tinyurl.com/2e779s
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/ICMsummit.gif

It looks identical to the one I have...



Just read your post Don and now my head is spinning... I don't know... the markings on that ICM you found are RLH and BC... while the one I have is HLD and BC. But both come from the same engines... probably same unit ?

My bluesmobile has no cat, and has guaranteed never had one (no environmental requirements for such things here).

The sparkplugs didn't look bad, and the engine is very responsive... so the ICM I have probably still works... it's only at idle the engine is not capable of holding a steady spin going. It's not jumping much up and down at idle, but it is noticable if one listens for it.

This being an ex policecar (my wife's former assistant told us he used to date the daughter of the police chief who had this car assigned privately... he reckognized the license plate) means that it would be made work, with whatever parts necessary. No "authorized dealer only" service at all. Just the cheapest solution possible... which explains why nothing worked when I bought the car. This ICM issue is not of great concern right now, but I would like to test it with the original unit, and see if it changes anything at all to the better.

After putting the Transmission Stop Leak in the tranny yesterday, the shifting has absolutely become more smooth, but the seals are still hard... at least it doesn't get into 1st gear when cold.... unless I rev the engine a couple of times. This morning it took less revving than earlier, so there is a change for the better. It also changes at better times to the 3rd, but not perfectly. I will give it a couple of weeks or 3, and hope the transmission additive has worked fully by then.

Ah.... today I came across a place that specializes in Chevys (house of Chevy), and the guy I talked to there is trying to locate a TCC for me. He knew perfectly well what it was I was babbling about, so I hope he'll turn up with something.

Zaloryan
01-18-2008, 06:07 PM
I know of a 89 or 90 Oldsmobile Ciera with a 2.8L V6 motor. I think the motor's blown, but I could see if the owner would be willing to part out the motor and maybe you could get a new oil pan and distributor?

CieraSL92
01-18-2008, 08:20 PM
I know you probably mentioned it in another post, but changing my tranny fluid made it act like a new car. Is yours burnt or discolored?

Tuddi
01-19-2008, 05:11 AM
The tranny fluid is bright red. No discoloring.

Today/night I took off the valve covers in order to fix the knocking that was going on. There had been "some" oil spilling down the block, originating from around the valve covers. The seals were hard, missing chunks, repaired with silicone cracked etc. So I bought a cork sheet (took a while to walk around and find it... sweatting like crazy in the baking sun while walking).... got back, cleaned the valve covers, drew up the new seals on the cork, cut them out, glued the seals to the valve covers with heat resistant silicone, put pressure on it for a couple of hours, adjusted the engine until all knocking was out of decectable range, both in idle and revving. Put the covers on again + dogbone cables etc.Test drove the car.... and I could swear that it is running smoother than before in idle. But will find out tomorrow in the morning if that is also the case when the engine is cold.

And it's a nice change not to have valve stem knocking sound.

After adding the "Bardahl Transmission Stop Leak" additive to the tranny, the car is getting gradually better at reacting to being put in 1st gear in the mornings. Now it is only a couple of seconds and one short revving needed for the tranny to connect with 1st gear. Changes between the gears, both up and down are much much softer and nicer than before. It really made a huge difference. I have not been driving much lately (mostly locked up with puter work, the program needs to be ready in mid february (at least I'd like to be able to keep that announced date on schedule)) ...

The steering rack needs a serious overhaul. There's a lot of movement in it, causing front right tire to shake, starting at speeds around 37mph (60 kmph). Overhaul with a 3 year guarantee I can get at around $90

The oilpan is still with the emergency repair I did up in the mountains, but it has to come off, and I will need a new oilpump. I noticed today when I had the valve covers off, that the oil pressure is very low, and doesn't properly lubricate all the valves. There is no overheating taking place, no burns or discoloring from overheating, but it's in need for a new pump, that's for sure.

Thanks for the offer Zaloryan, but I live in Peru - South America, and to get a piece as big as an oilpan down here, would be too expensive. I have asked around for an oilpan here, and hope to find one. If not, I will have it repaired and have added a skid plate on it as well.

mickstan_VR
01-19-2008, 02:30 PM
Yes, a skid plate! GREAT idea. I do wish there was a way for us to get you the parts you need. I have a few friends that work in the shipping depts. of various companies here. I could ask them to check on the cost of shipping something of that size, or larger, to Peru. I need like a zip code or something near you. I work for ABB, got any ABB factories nearby? I know we have one in Brazil somewhere. At least that would get it to your continent!

Tuddi
01-19-2008, 06:28 PM
My wife's nephew works in a cargo agency down here, and they have most of their dealings up in the US, so if I really need to buy a large package, I can get it at a good price, but it would have to be something like a cubic meter to be worth it.

Zaloryan
01-19-2008, 07:00 PM
Hmm...okay, how about a new 2.8L V6? :idea: That's about a cubic meter.

Tuddi
01-19-2008, 08:47 PM
Actually it would take around 6 of them to make the cubic meter.

mickstan_VR
01-19-2008, 09:06 PM
wow, a cubic meter. Thats a lotta stuff. We could just cut a celebrity in half and stuff it in the box with a forklift. Might have to cut the top of the car off though.

Zaloryan
01-19-2008, 09:09 PM
Oh wow, okay... :ugh:

LordDurock
01-19-2008, 10:16 PM
okay I've all ways missed this tread on my passes so

first nice picts tuddi very nice.
2 like some on said the trany and motor are sitting way low. the trany pan should be level or just a little above the cradle.
3 do have the pan removed because as some on did point out the oil pump tube could be damaged.........the motor will come out the top with the tranny if you remove the brake booster.

4 I'm glad you were able to do a "fix" and not haveing to find your car gone....

Tuddi
01-20-2008, 03:58 AM
It was sitting this low because of the totally non-existing motormount on passenger side (under the harmonic balancer). I have leveled the engine with another freak-fix that can last until I get myself a proper motormount, and a harmonic balancer, and a new oilpump... and ... and... so on... :)

turbokinetic
01-20-2008, 07:26 PM
I haven't forgot about your trans rebuild manual - Working on scanning it and have half of it scanned now! :-)

Tuddi
01-22-2008, 10:11 AM
I haven't forgot about your trans rebuild manual - Working on scanning it and have half of it scanned now! :-)

Got it, and am truly tankful!

Tuddi
03-20-2008, 05:49 AM
I've been away from home for the past 3 plus weeks, up in the northern part of Peru, which explains my absense from the forums. Right before I left, the engine was starting to sound oil thirsty, with metal against metal (void of oil) under the valve covers. I think that the oil pump is giving up... which would not be strange after 23 years, but possibly caused by the damage to the oilpan during my trip to the Andean last year.

Here in the north I have been occupied with taking panorama pictures at archeological sites and elsewhere... and I will have a few weeks of work when I get back to my main puter, since the laptop is not suitable for anything but checking mail and showing off panoramas I have already made.... when I bought the laptop 2 years ago, it was "super fast" compared to my then stationary puter... but things move ahead fast, so now it's just terrible...

Anyways, I will have to make a list of all the things I need to buy from the US, hoping that "someone" around here will be able and willing to help me out with gathering the parts and mail them to me for a "finders fee" and the obligational "you bothered me, now pay up you bastard!" fee. :)

There are quite a few parts I would like... some readily available, some that are not so readily available.... but that's just how it is. I will apreciate everything I can get.

Read you all soon again.

Trausti

Tuddi
03-24-2008, 01:45 AM
Just to get off topic and waste your time... I hereby present to you a few of the pictures I have taken in the past couple of days.

Yes, it's me in the role of Gulliver in Lilleput land in the first 2 shots.

The sunsets here are amazing, and are a testiment to this being my Perudise.

And my models (3 sisters) are just sweet and nice in every way. I feel as if I have gained new family with them.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/MeAndLuciaOutsideHuanchacoChurch.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/AllOfUsOutsideHuanchacoChurch.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/SurfingSunsetInHuanchaco.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/KatiaInHuanchaco.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/LuciaInHuanchaco.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Lucia_EnElParque2VERYsmall.jpg

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/KatiaAlejandraLuciaSmallFixed.jpg

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-24-2008, 03:58 AM
I will have to make a list of all the things I need to buy from the US,


Hi:

I have no objections, but I'm not sure if there are any legal aspects from my end...if none, then I'll fetch some. I suspect postage may be on high side, but maybe you know about this.

I do have a like new timing set for a 2.8 V-60 motor, if you have an interest at no charge; I took the timing cover off of my 1988 2.8 motor and discovered someone has replaced it in last 20,000 miles are less, so I just installed the new chain and cam sprocket.

Do you have a Pay-Pal account?

Tuddi
03-24-2008, 02:42 PM
There are no restrictions legally, unless you decide to include pistols, grenade launchers, C4, munitions, nerve gas canisters and such... :)

Yes, the freight is expensive, but that's just how it is, and I have to live with that.

When I get back home (sometime before the end of the month) I'll be making the complete wish-list and post it.

And no, I still haven't made me a Pay Pal account (Pay Pal only included Peru in their services in June or July last year... and it is still limited in operations).

I have no problem in sending through Western Union or MoneyGram, when I trust the person on the other end.

A new timing set... I don't think it would be a bad thing for my old engine to have such a luxury update. :)

turbokinetic
03-24-2008, 11:31 PM
Awesome pictures! Those chilren are adorable!
The sunset on the beach is striking. Thanks for sharing this with us! Really neat, and a nice surprise!
David

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-25-2008, 01:14 AM
making the complete wish-list and post it.


Send a PM if I don't catch it...I'm parting out a 1987 Olds Ciera, and all parts except cradle/motor/transmission you are welcomed to them, at no cost, except shipping.


A new timing set...

It's free, and in good shape....

LordDurock
03-25-2008, 01:18 AM
There are no restrictions legally, unless you decide to include pistols, grenade launchers, C4, munitions, nerve gas canisters and such... :)

Yes, the freight is expensive, but that's just how it is, and I have to live with that.

When I get back home (sometime before the end of the month) I'll be making the complete wish-list and post it.

And no, I still haven't made me a Pay Pal account (Pay Pal only included Peru in their services in June or July last year... and it is still limited in operations).

I have no problem in sending through Western Union or MoneyGram, when I trust the person on the other end.

A new timing set... I don't think it would be a bad thing for my old engine to have such a luxury update. :)

so i take it rifles are okay...............jk they werent listed

Tuddi
03-25-2008, 03:21 AM
Awesome pictures! Those chilren are adorable!
The sunset on the beach is striking. Thanks for sharing this with us! Really neat, and a nice surprise!
David

Thank you. Yes, they are adorable and good mannered and fun to be around. They will be coming to visit me in Lima for a couple of weeks during their next vacations (I'm paying for them). Since they have never been to the capital, it will be a milestone to remember. These are very very poor people who put on their best outfits to be photographed... but their hearts and minds are immensely big and loveable.


Send a PM if I don't catch it...I'm parting out a 1987 Olds Ciera, and all parts except cradle/motor/transmission you are welcomed to them, at no cost, except shipping.


It's free, and in good shape....

Thank you!!! You are being too kind!! I will take a good long look at my car when I get back home (couple of days or 3 from now as it looks), and figure out what exactly the Bluesmobile needs to feel better. Probably I will be asking you to get a few new parts for me, such as brake cylinders for the rear end, harmonic balancer, engine mount (the one under the harmonic balancer) and ... well... I'll have to bury my head into the car to get the whole list.... (will wire you the money prior to you moving a finger. This is not something that is really really important time-wise, so a couple of weeks or even a month to get the things would be quite fine with me).

Thanks again and I'll be in touch! :wave:

86euro
03-25-2008, 03:50 AM
As usual, wonderful pictures:)

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-25-2008, 05:34 PM
I'll be in touch!

Only relevant question is which "carrier" has the cheapest rates?

USPS - United States Postal Service
UPS - United Parcel Service
FedeX

etc....

That harmonic balancer weighs quite a bit, can't you get this locally? I'd venture to say, it was used on related motors (2.8 & 3.1, and maybe others); GM tends to be conservative in parts, they like to keep the total inventory down, so they use common parts many times.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-25-2008, 07:26 PM
I'll be in touch!

I did a quick search via USPS for Country Conditions for Mailing — Peru (http://pe.usps.com/text/Imm/ps_005.htm#ep1345663) and Mailability (http://pe.usps.com/text/Imm/immc1_009.htm#ep732758), and it appears I can send automotive type products over there.

But, off hand for a 20 lb box, it will cost around $50.00 US to send it there in 7 to 10 days service. When sending a box, it appears the rate is the same for weight. So a 5 lb box cost the same as a 20 lb box.

USPS does have their own "flat rate box" that is cheaper, $37.00, but it is a smaller box size.

Tuddi
03-25-2008, 10:38 PM
USPS would be just fine.... and the 20 lbs for 50 bucks sounds like a great deal.

Regarding the Harmonic Balancer, I have exhausted all possibilities here in Peru. There simply isn't possible to find a new one here, and only one used (ok condition, but more expensive than a new quality one in the US)... Even if it turns out to be 2 boxes of 20 lbs, ($100) I would not complain. The transit time of 7-10 days is more like 10-14 days, but that is also quite acceptable for me.

From the "Mailability" link... articles forbidden to send to Peru: "Communist propaganda" :kekeke:

What a joke! :rofl: Obviously it is permissible to send Communist litterature... for as long as it is not propaganda... hmm... ok, let's just exclude such things altogether ... this time around. :rant:

Where did you find the ca. $50 for 20 lbs box info? I couldn't locate it anywhere.

Well... I'll be back in Lima by the end of the week, then I'll be taking a few days to organize myself (greeting my family included) and start working on what I've been shooting here in the north (thousands of photos to attend to).

Somewhere during all of that I will find time to type down a list with pictures of all the things the Bluesmobile would love to have.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-26-2008, 12:48 AM
Where did you find the ca. $50 for 20 lbs box info?


I'm going to have to spend some time reading the FINE PRINT...


With Priority Mail International (http://www.usps.com/international/prioritymailinternational.htm)

Flat Rate Boxes

Canada and Mexico $23, other countries $37
Large Flat Rate Box
o
Enables customers to ship 50 percent more than the current box
o
There is a 20 pound weight limit on all flat rate box shipments to international destinations.

I need to find out what a "Large Flat Rate Box" is, and what can be shipped in it.
=====================

Then they have this Chart (http://ircalc.usps.gov/IntlMailServices.aspx?Country=10354&M=2&P=20&O=0&sd=1): Priority Mail® International Large Flat Rate Box, 6 - 10 Days $49.95

Hence, 20 lbs within a "large Flat Rate Box," whatever that is.

A large flat rate box may be this: Size: 12 inches long, 12 inches high and 6 inches thick


But elsewhere, "Use “Large Package” when the length plus girth (the distance around the thickest part) of a package is more than 84 inches but not more than 130 inches. Also use Large Package for packages more than 1 cubic foot.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-26-2008, 12:57 AM
I think this is the way it rolls out:

1. $37.00 - Size: 12 inches long, 12 inches high and 6 inches thick

2. $49.95 - Size: Large Package: when the length plus girth (the distance around the thickest part) of a package is more than 84 inches but not more than 130 inches.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-26-2008, 01:00 AM
Girth plus length: (http://www.theboxshopsa.com/definitions.html)


This is a formula used by shipping companies to determine shipping costs of a box. Out
of the three dimensions of a box the longest dimension is considered to be the length.
The other two dimensions are each doubled and then added together to obtain the girth.

For example, if a box is 24" long,18" wide and 28" tall, according to the formula, the
length is 28"; therefore the girth plus length is as follows:
Length: 28
Girth: 24 + 24 +18 + 18 = 84
Girth plus length is 84 + 24 = 108"

Tuddi
03-26-2008, 04:54 AM
That's actually giving quite a lot of space for the 50 bucks, even though it's still limited to the 20 pounds.

Fair prices and conditions... Nothing I can complain about there... except for the lack of "Communist Propaganda" you can't ship to me :lol:

Do you have autozone, rockauto or other comparable supplier close by? ... in case of getting brake cylinders, oil pump, probably some parts for the ignition, main bearings (not sure about those though)... engine mount, and well.. probably some other parts.

Don't let me forget to ask you about windshield wiper motor from your Ciera... I tend to forget that it is faulty....

.... and when you get down here on vacation, be sure to prepare your belly for some cold beers I'll get you. :cheers:

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-26-2008, 03:13 PM
Do you have autozone

windshield wiper motor from your Ciera...

Autosupply Stores - Autozone, Advance Auto (http://www.advanceautoparts.com/), and O'Reily Auto Parts (http://www.oreillyauto.com/).

Harmonic Balancer - I checked with salavage dealer today, there were several versions from 1980 to 1985. Problem is, your vehicle was assemblied in Mexico, and who knows which harmonic balancer was used. If yours is not physically damaged, there may be a way to use fresh rubber and press it back on, if it was constructed this way.

Windshield wiper motor - You can have the whole assembly...I never used it, so I know nothing; I will hook it up to the 85 Olds to make sure it works before sending it.

The USPS mailing "rules" stated the content has to be under $200.00 in value, unless permission is gotten from Peru's officials. I live in a rural area, so the pickings are slim, but I'm trying to find an older 2.8 motor to see if some parts might be picked from it...so far, no luck on a junk 2.8 motor that has a carburetor.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-26-2008, 03:24 PM
It might be possible to get the material to rebuild it from these people, and then you could rebuild it down there.


Welcome to Damper Doctor Online! (http://www.damperdoctor.com/)

Damper Doctor is the source for new and rebuilt harmonic balancers. We stock thousands of dampers for domestic and import vehicles. Even if we don't have the right harmonic balancer in stock for your vehicle, we offer a custom rebuilding service of your worn out damper.
...
...
REBUILT HARMONIC BALANCERS
Rebuilt harmonic balancers have a refundable core value. All rebuilt harmonic balancers are first disassembled and cleaned. The parts are then inspected for defects, including stripped bolt holes and worn or cracked keyways and hubs. Harmonic balancers are then prepared for assembly. Timing marks are set to the factory specification by using a laser aligning process. After the timing marks are set, the harmonic balancers are then injected with a high-temperature, high-strength silicone rubber that is then platinum cured for a extremely strong hold. The new silicone rubber is capable of withstanding temperature in excess of 450 degrees, and will hold up against pressures as high as 770 psi. Rebuilt harmonic balancers carry a 3 year limited warranty.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-27-2008, 03:13 AM
windshield wiper motor


Footnote - This 1987 unit is different from 1985 unit....I'll see if I can get a pic or two of it.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
03-28-2008, 12:26 AM
windshield wiper motor

Here are three pics of 1987 Ciera wiper motor:

1. Rear View (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/englander23/DSC_0007.jpg)


2. Front View (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/englander23/DSC_0006.jpg)

3. Sideway View (http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/englander23/DSC_0005.jpg)

I'm taking apart this 1987 Ciera as my current project, but the 1985 Ciera has a different style wiper motor with a washer motor attached to it. I suspect the mounting of both are the same, but the electrical setup would be different since the hot wire going to the wiper motor goes to the washer-tank instead of the wiper-motor.

What is setup on yours? I would have to look at 1985 wiper motor, but it may be possible to use 87 wiper motor on 85 vehicle, if some wiring was switched.

Footnote - Since I have pulled the wiring out of 1987 vehicle, I won't be able to test it; I assumed 1985 Ciera would be setup the same, wrong assumption.

Tuddi
04-09-2008, 03:19 AM
Back home in the capital since march 28th... and have been busy with all the things I will continue to be busy with, but it was darn nice to get back to wifey and kids.

I took the Bluesmobile to a workshop to have the oilpan fixed after the trip last year that cut it and knocked it up to the gut of the engine. It became a bigger problem than I had hoped for. The engine mount down by the tranny was in 2 pieces as I actually expected it to be... but the worst thing was the driver's side axle/cv joint I paid a lot for having replaced last year... it turned out it was NOT for this car... and the farters who changed it for me, had used who knows what for the replacement, and had welded the end of it, so it could not glide as it should. Freakin bastards.... well... the past is the past.... Got a new axle by magic.... the workshop owner had one unused from several years back, when he had an a-body.... so I was glad for that. Then there were 3 large cracks in the subframe that were in desperate need to be welded and fixed for good... which they were. And I got front wheel alignment, which helped a lot for driving comfort. These repairs took the most of one week to be performed, and then it took me one day to fix all the things the workshop had f**ked up in wiring and such.... nothing new there :)

The paint is peeling away on the car... due to extremely hot weather, helped by extremely bad craftmanship by the last painter.... and I can't stand watching the car leaving me flake by flake... so I have found a place that can make the paint job (stripping the car down to bare metal and doing the paint job as it should be done) for a very reasonable price.

Here are the colours I am most interested in:

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BluesmobileColorChoices1.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BluesmobileColorChoices2.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BluesmobileColorChoices3.jpg

The first one (Burgundy) I like very much... good colour combination, but it requires an interior that matches it, and I wouldn't for the life of me have a car that's got red interior. Just not me. The second one should reflect a silvery shiny colour (you need to turn on your imagination to see it that way)... and I like it, plus it would lower the baking oven heat inside the car during summertime.... it's murderously hot here now... and summer was supposed to be over... but it's more fierce than ever.... My wife likes the silvery option very much... Then there is the last one... dark metallic gray with lighter metallic bottom panels. That's the one I like the most, and will have the car painted like that. But then there is my wife... she will get her Bluesmoblile II (the one I posted about months ago... with the licenceplates JQ1118 (while mine is JQ1114) and she will have it repainted in the silvery colour.

The exterior rubberstripes on the doors I would like to replace with some hard and dark quallity wood (caoba) with a thin rubber stripe in the center (where the chrome is now). Here in Peru I can have such customjobs made for very low price.. am also playing with the thought of having the whole dashboard remade in some quality wood... since the original one is all but melted due to the summers, and one can't possibly claim that the original design was beautiful.... but I am also thinking about having a custom made dashboard, with the original speedo and other meters and indicator lights laid out differently, and with a more modern center console, where the radio could fit in easily.

Regarding the wiper motor... yes, it is different from the one I have :( I had shot a picture of mine, but it got all shaky, and now I'm too tired to go out in the darkness and snap another shot.... but later will do.

If the mounting points are the same, then it would not be a problem for me. I don't care much about original wiring, if the end result is fully functional, and I could always find out how to wire it correctly.

I will be back with pictures of needed things later on... when I have figured out what it is I actually will be doing to the car.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-09-2008, 04:48 AM
Regarding the wiper motor...


I have another one off of my 85 Ciera...I can test this one to make sure it works...it has the fluid pump on it.

Harmonic Balancer - If it is still intack, you can find TDC, and mark it on balancer. It is only needed with higher RPM. Chances are, your motor mount went defective, and harmonic balancer rubbed on something and spun it some. Or another option is to rebuild it down there...with a little research, I think it can be done, if this is needed. If its holding tight, and not spinning, it can be used, just mark TDC on piston one on it.

Since they made several versions, I have no idea if crankshaft journal size was different on these different versions. It would be a crapshoot to find the same one up here.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-09-2008, 04:50 AM
... when I have figured out what it is I actually will be doing to the car.

Imho...don't waste your money on it....with bells & whistles....if motor or transmission shoot craps, then what?

I have this feeling this vehicle is running on a "wing and a prayer."

Tuddi
04-09-2008, 05:02 AM
At least 2 wings.. and no prayers..... since I am a dedicated atheist and never pray. Comparing the car to the day I bought it, and now, it would be like holding a Pentium 4 with a quad core CPU against a 286 from way back then....

.... but still a few major issues to be resolved before it is better than new... one of which would be to resolve the MPG issue, which is constantly around 7.5 MPG in city traffic (where I use the car 99% of the time).

Quite funny actually, that my Bluesmobile is less economic than an old and worn out Hummer.... and the hummer uses Diesel (Petroleum) making it even cheaper in maintainance... and here the gasoline is at $6.30 pr. gallon.

Actually I don't complain over the consumption, but I would prefer to see it improve a bit.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-09-2008, 05:52 PM
which is constantly around 7.5 MPG in city traffic


The first solution is to find TDC on piston one, and mark it on the harmonic balancer...then time the vehicle via this mark.

mickstan_VR
04-09-2008, 09:25 PM
Wow, thats almost a dollar a mile at 6 bucks a gallon and 7.4mpg. ouch!

Tuddi
04-28-2008, 11:27 PM
Now I am going to come through as a total jerk... and I have no defense against it... except shutting up, but that's not an option.

Today I had my head down in the engine compartment once again, and thought..."Could it be the engine actually has an O2 sensor mounted?" .... took a look at the driver's side of the head, towards the firewall and lo and behold... right there on the corner of the head was a dirty piece of something stiicking out of the head, very close to the exhaust... and in my view, it simply fits the description externally. I didn't have a key to take it off this time, but I will get one and have it removed and at least cleaned up a little. There was a wire hanging loose in the immediate area, which had a slide-on mechanism which fitted the head of the sensor... so I connected it... and with it connected the car runs ... so no harm done there.

I know for a fact that this has not been connected throughout the time I have had the car..... I did come across the wire for it shortly after I bought the car, but didn't spot the sensor when I tried to find it's connecting point, so I secured the wire from accidentally shorting out anything, and that was that.

Now I have a couple of questions:
How much can a missing O2 sensor (or a faulty one) mean for the fuel economy?
And: Assuming the sensor I have is still in a functional condition, but probably dirty as crap after who knows how many years... can it be cleaned in order to be better... and should one use some special cleaning liquids?

CieraSL92
04-28-2008, 11:58 PM
A missing O2 sensor will keep the car from correcting the A/F ratio. It will remain in open loop, running rich (though it may not appear to be rich if you have massive vacuum leaks)

It's horrible for economy. I've never heard of cleaning an O2 sensor, someone mentioned heating it up once to me, but beyond that no.. Not sure if you can get your hands on one over there. There like $20 here.

Buick_powa
04-29-2008, 01:02 AM
repalce it its not much than 70-80$ look for an NTK one the best on the market

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-29-2008, 02:57 AM
O2 sensor mounted


I know your vehicle can run without a computer...my memory is fuzzy here about details on your vehicle:

1. Got a picture of your Carburetor....I want to see if several wires are going to it, like:

a. Wires for TPS
b. Wires for mixture control needles.

If someone has removed the computer, and left the original carb, this is why you are getting piss poor fuel economy....if true, you need to get a different Carb to get better fuel mileage, if you can't find a computer.

Tuddi
04-29-2008, 03:57 AM
I encountered the computer behind the glovebox, so it is still in the car. The carburator has only one wire leading to it... I'll try to remember to snap pictures of it tomorrow... and the wiper motor while I am at it... I am interested in a new carb with ALL the original parts on it and in a working condition. The one I replaced the Toyota carb with, was rebuilt, but missing out at least a couple of things....

A few months back there was someone who was selling factory new Rochester Varajet II carbs for these engines... some old stock they had bought. The price was around $70, but they didn't ship outside the US... I would love to get my hands on such a nice specimen. ...

Techfizzle
04-29-2008, 04:14 AM
i think rockauto ship to peru

Tuddi
04-29-2008, 05:49 AM
Yes, rockauto does ship outside flat-earth and onto the round earth.... but the case with the carb is that their prices are ranging from $400+ to $600+ the most expensive one is remanufactured... so the $70 bucks carb would have been a really good buy.

Darn... here is one (used) on ebay for $10 and no reserve (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1976-1979-Rochester-Varajet-II-Carburetor-NO-RESERVE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33550QQihZ016QQ itemZ260234031390QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW#ebayphoto hosting). Almost identical to the one I have...

Ok, now I got more confused about the setup of the car. Checking on rockauto.com for distributors for my car (85 celebrity sedan 6 cyl 2.8L Classic), there is nothing resembling the distributor cap I have, which has the ignition coil built in the cap.

Why is that? Is rockauto lacking proper info, or is the distribution system in my car adopted from the junkyard of hell, where there is no reason for anything?

Techfizzle
04-29-2008, 12:36 PM
try a diffrent website first. Some could of have put a diffrent one on there.

Techfizzle
04-29-2008, 12:37 PM
I noticed this thread is called Chevre. Isnt that goat cheese?

CieraSL92
04-29-2008, 03:53 PM
I looked up the cap for an 85 Celeb 2.8 2barrel.. Assume that's what you have?

No dist cap has a coil that's shown here. On autozone anyway.

It shows part number C846 for an ignition coil($20). Typical looking. DR926 ($10) is there cap, also typical looking.

So.. I have no idea? Where was this manufactured?

Buick_powa
04-29-2008, 04:23 PM
I noticed this thread is called Chevre. Isnt that goat cheese?

nop it is goat in french :rofl::kekeke:

Tuddi
04-29-2008, 09:51 PM
Chevre in Peruvian Spanish means "great" as in "nice".... and goes with the car, since it is a Chevr(ol)e(t)

Ok, I finally pulled out the camera and snapped some photos.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW01.jpg
Above> Distributor cap fits nicely (perfectly actually) under the side of the air filter casing.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW02.jpg
Above> On left side towards the valve cover is the vacuum brake... but the membrane in it leaks, and would cause vacuum leak if it was connected :(
In the opposite corner at the lower right side in the picture is the only electrical connection to the carb, which is for the electrical choke... not much use for that over here.. but it's connected anyways.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW03.jpg
Above> Overview

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW05.jpg
Above> Sideview

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW06.jpg
Above> Backview

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW08.jpg
Above> Other sideview

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/CnDnW07.jpg
Above> That's of course the wipermotor.

mickstan_VR
04-30-2008, 02:43 AM
I see several issues. That is one morfidite setup! Is there a vaccuum line going from the carb to the vaccuum advance in the distributor?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-30-2008, 03:44 AM
I encountered the computer behind the glovebox


Somehow, we need to find out what OEM equipment was for this vehicle.

Computer would have driven a carburetor with mixture control needles in them...this is how you get your good fuel mileage, in conjunction with O2 sensor working.

On that computer box are some numbers that identify it....it would be nice to know what these numbers are....disconnect battery if you ever have to unplug it from its wiring harness.

Coming off of the Firewall, are there some connectors/wires that have been cut?

If this vehicle had a carburetor tossed on it that was for a larger sized motor, this would explain your low fuel mileage.

Tuddi
04-30-2008, 03:46 AM
Vacuum advance on the distributor leaks (bad membrane)... so it's not connected....

.... not without a reason I would love to see spareparts that are in fully working order.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-30-2008, 03:50 AM
but the case with the carb



Rochester VaraJet E2SE # 17086432 in a 1984 GM 2.8L V6

This may be what you need.


The Unofficial Guide to the

Rochester Varajet II

Carburetors

(http://www.ednutter.ws/varajet)


But, your computer must be working to use it

Tuddi
04-30-2008, 03:54 AM
There is a whole bunch of wires that are cut off right outside the firewall in passenger side....

I'll try to get close to the puter tomorrow and see what kind of info it can offer for identification.

Yesterday I was doing some googling on the Varajet II, and it seems that after 1981 or 82, they were finally equipped with electronics, such as the idle speed and the mixture solenoid that is to be aided by the O2 sensor. My carb I bought here in Lima, since the previous carb was from a 4 cyl Toyota, and it was starving the engine all the time. This is a better thing to have than the Toyota one, but it's still not as good as it could be.

I will probably have to try and have some good soul in the US to gather the pieces I need, and have things fixed once and for all. I want the car to run smoothly and be free from serious issues... .such as the fuel economy that results in my wife pointing fingers from time to time.... now THAT is a serious issue :)

Tuddi
05-01-2008, 01:18 AM
A basic look at the puter revealed nothing.... maybe the backside of it has a label or something... even though I doubt it.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BluesmobilePuterPic.jpg

Techfizzle
05-01-2008, 01:22 AM
being such a nice guy, and also having a camaro ecm by me, the sticker is behind it.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-01-2008, 03:47 AM
There is a whole bunch of wires that are cut off right outside the firewall in passenger side....

What has been done to that vehicle is/was to take "salvage parts" to make it run; it has been castrated from OEM setup.

Distrubutor - My estimate is it was on another vehicle...the module most likely went out, so they found a working distributor and stuck it in there.

OEM carburetor, if it was there, would burn extra fuel without computer working...so they trashed it when computer quit working (or whatever the reason).


What I think needs to be done:

1. Distributor - Get it working correctly

2. Carburetor - Make sure CFM and jets are matched to engine

3. Harmonic Balancer - Need to mark it for TDC, and set correct timing.

Once these three things are done, you should be getting better fuel mileage. I really doubt if your timing advance is working correctly, and chances are, the timing is off.

Further, I have no idea how your lockup torque converter works (what triggers it to lockup), but the computer was suppose to do this on that era of vehicles.

Techfizzle
05-01-2008, 04:19 AM
hmmmhttp://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0006.gif I dont know about this whole "savage thing" http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0024.gif

BUT I do know that some time , people will throw an old motor in a car, and delete the ecm.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-01-2008, 04:39 AM
hmmm...I dont know about this whole "savage thing"


He don't live in US....down there, you can't be choosy...if it works, use it.

People cobble a vehicle together to make it run...when new parts are high priced, you make the most out of what you got...or have access to.

Techfizzle
05-01-2008, 04:54 AM
that make sense

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-03-2008, 02:39 AM
...have some good soul in the US to gather the pieces I need...


Imho....a different approach is needed, along these lines:

1. Harmonic Balancer - One needs to find TDC on number one cylinder, and then place a new line on balancer....

2. Distributor's vacuum pot - If not working, get a replacement locally, and install it. Also, the vacuum line(s) will have to be hooked up to correct vacuum port.

3. Timing - After the above, the vehicle needs to have correct timing

4. Carburetor - Need to find out just what has been put on the vehicle and its regular application...need to make sure all vacuum lines are hooked up correctly.


You will find that your fuel mileage will improve if these steps are taken....having a working computer does not improve fuel mileage greatly...the computer was mainly for emission laws, and only gave a pinch better fuel economy since carburetors were set a pinch on the rich side.

As another person has noted on this forum, if your driving is mostly stop/go traffic, at best you might get around 15 mpg...if most all of your trips are short with stop/go, getting around 10 mpg would not be unusual.

Driving that vehicle at mainly sea level requires a specific set of jets....I have no idea if you have looked at any of those new plugs installed, but their color will tell you if you are running rich or lean.

One last point, the 2.8 motor you have had problems....mainly rods/mains would go bad...they improved this motor by 1988 with larger mains. Further, it would be worthwhile to pull off the pan and check the rods/mains bearings...and install a new oil pump. My understanding was the oil pump would starve out, and this caused premature engine death. I assume you have an idiot light for oil pressure, but it would be nice to know where the oil pressure really is....you would have to put a Tee Line at your oil pressure sending unit, or rig up something at your oil filter mounting. Take a look at this post (http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=340435&postcount=27)...S-10 and Camaro vehicles with 2.8s have a different adapter where an oil line port is available.

Techfizzle
05-03-2008, 03:10 AM
i HATE caburators i had an old truck, that i rerouted the vacuum hoses 3 times and rebuilt the carb 8 times never DID run right. So much shit to tinker with that there hard to tune. least on a 81 f100 inline 6 they are.

Tuddi
05-03-2008, 07:02 AM
1.
2.
3.
4.

1. I marked it TDC on HB a week ago... but haven't had the time to go and have it tuned.
2. That is on my "TO DO" list, as one of the important issues.
3. Timing... yes, that makes perfect sense.
4. I'm pretty sure the vacuum lines are correctly hooked up, but can't be sure until I have the ignition advance pot working and connected.

When I had the engine out of the car a few weeks back, the filter for the oil pump was clogged with silicone crap from last time someone took the oil pan off the engine. Yes, it's only an idiot light, and I would prefer to see the pressure. You have any idea where these adaptors for filter/pressure can be found?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-03-2008, 05:24 PM
i HATE caburators i had an old truck, that i rerouted the vacuum hoses 3 times and rebuilt the carb 8 times...

Here's a trade secret...fix it like OEM did....no problem.

Carbs- Older carbs need to be rebushed on throttle plate linkage-rod....Period...if carb is sucking air via linkage rod(s)....what do you expect, miracles?

Vacuum Lines - Know what they do...and fix them accordingly....otherwise, stuff will happen.

Backyard Tinkering - Forget it...if it worked for OEM, there must have been a reason...taking off this/that device, and wondering why it don't work now...well, what did you expect.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-03-2008, 05:49 PM
When I had the engine out of the car a few weeks back


I hoped they checked the rods/mains...cheap insurance policy.

Over in US., brand new vehicles can and do get 13 mpg or less in stop/go traffic only....this is what is needed to be evaluated...where are you driving, and how much braking action is involved...and how much wait time.

I get better fuel mileage than the average person since I plan ahead...I don't race between traffic lights...but try to let the vehicle slow down before next traffic light.

For a 1.5 ton vehicle getting below 10 mpg...suggests a lot of city stop/go with idle time...or one that has wrong sized jet(s) in carb...timing issues/etc....or a driver needing an attitude change in pedal stroking behavior.

Check your spark plugs...they should have a blackish color on them, with that much fuel burn.

Tuddi
05-03-2008, 11:47 PM
I'll take pictures of a couple of plugs tomorrow. Last time I had one out (when marking the TDC), I was amazed at how clean it was. No indication of rich mixture as I had expected.

I am mainly in stop-stop-go_a_little traffic. Traffic in Lima is crazy. There is no respect, no consideration, no regard for lifes or the law. If it was accepted to shoot and kill insane drivers, I'd probably knock off 50 or so every time I go out driving.

I prefer to keep distance to the car in front of me, but that extra space is immediately filled up by a "space raider"... some idiot who simply has to squeeze his car into narrow spaces. I prefer to give people access to the road... but that is never returned. I was raised up in a civilized traffic society... this here is chaos theory running wild. A year or so back, I read that Peruvian roads are ten times more dangerous than US roads, that are again more dangerous than most European roads.

During my first years here, I was convinced I would never drive again... at least not in the capital.... but I got used to it after the first day out and around.... but it's still only for mad people to be in the traffic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1IRQSU7Fc4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHGs4-9b4nY
And here a typical example of a combi bus shifting lanes all the time, without ever having had need for it, or gaining anything by doing it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cDX8-w3akU

These are pretty lame videos, and don't show what it's really like... it's a thousand times worse.

People who don't devellop road rage here, must be genetic misfits! :)

Techfizzle
05-04-2008, 02:46 AM
i think they need to take everyones drivers license away and make them all take drivers ed

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-04-2008, 02:59 AM
No indication of rich mixture as I had expected.


Your timing may be too early....may


THE DOWNSIDE OF ADVANCING TOO FAR: KABOOM!
(http://www.team-integra.net/sections/articles/showarticle.asp?ArticleID=235)

Piston meltdown with detonation from advancing too far:

http://www.team-integra.net/images/BAEC1978-D3A7-4405-AB2D-2761DC15A96D/articles/tuan/Piston.jpg

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-04-2008, 03:01 AM
You have any idea where these adapters for filter/pressure can be found?

In a salvage yard....on 2.8 motors found in those vehicles I mentioned.

Got some pics of your local salvage yard?

Buick_powa
05-04-2008, 03:29 AM
http://achachichou.free.fr/salade2/chevre.jpg

Tuddi
05-04-2008, 05:49 AM
In a salvage yard....on 2.8 motors found in those vehicles I mentioned.

Got some pics of your local salvage yard?

Peru is another planet. Literally speaking.

There is supposedly ONE salvage yard somewhere in or outside Lima (a city of nearly 9 million habitants). I have however not encountered it yet. When a car is totaled, it is repaired and sold as "new" again... When a car is stolen, the thieves normally dispose of the dead body of the owner of the car, and sell the car to a salvager that parts the car into atoms in a day or less. If you want to find a steeringwheel, you go to the area selling steeringwheels... and there you will find 20+ shops selling the same kind of steeringwheels. If you need a waterpump, you go to the waterpump street, where you can have your old pump repaired by 50 different water pump shops, or buy a refurbished one.... or pay 3 times the price for a new one. It's like that with everything. If you need glasses, you go to the street where you have around 100 shops selling glasses and lenses. Same with mattresses... it's just plain insane. Why they haven't figured out that it's better to have something no one else in the same street has, is beyond me to understand. For instance... there is a street where cars are fixed... and one could expect to find a lot of shops selling stuff for cars, hairdo shops to cut people's hair while they wait for their car to be ready etc.... but no. Nothing like that, because it's not a haircut area... nor is it an area selling items for cars... it's only for fixing cars. The competition is very very hard, becuse the guy next door will sell things cheaper than you, just to sell... even if it is without profit.

So... I can't bring you any pictures of a junkyard here, and it would be unwise of me to take my camera to the salvage parts areas... It would be an open invitation to the thousands of robbers and gangs to get into problems with me, trying to steal it from me. No need for me to challenge THEIR safety. Last time a gang of 12-15 pirhanas (robber gang) tried to steal the hat off my head, they were seriously damaged by my fists, ending up with broken faces, ribs, arms and probably other parts as well... while I didn't get a scratch and left them lying and crying in the street. I know how to handle myself and others in a fight, and out of pure stupidity (and boiling viking blood) I fear no man or gang of fools who think they can just do as they want. I do however not like to put people in a coma or to hurt them (even though they deserve it), so I have learned not to overly challenge the fools to regard me as a "prey". My wife, born and bred here, always locks the door on the car when she is in it, and I refuse to do the same, since that would be a sign of liing in fear. She has been assaulted in cars 3 times... last time a gang on a pickup loaded with AK47's surrounded the car she was in (with her assistand driving) and tried to smash the windows with the butts of their rifles. My wife's assistant tried to reach for his 9mm pistol under the driver's seat but couldn't locate it... the windows had bulletproof laminate and withstood the butts. The traffic infront of them moved and they could drive on and away from these wannabee car-jackers or kidnappers. So the situation is not "safe" by any means... but I love the place. 3 assaults on me during the first 3 months I was here (including the above mentioned) ending with the guys assaulting me badly beaten up by me... is all I have encountered of that nature here. During the first months I was walking everywhere, in order to get to know the city better... I went into areas that were REALLY foul looking, where people had munitions for sale in the streets, and where not even the police dares to enter. I am 6ft 4in tall, and that's 2 heads taller than most of the native Peruvians... plus my hat, which is like a blinking light seeking attention from people.... I was often followed by small groups of pig-eyed robber types, who were up to no good. I would just look them in their faces take my knife from it's sheth and start "cleaning my fingernails" with it... and the bastards would move away pretty quickly. Not that I would ever use a knife in a fight.. but they don't know that.

Today, I don't even THINK of visiting most of those areas I walked through in the early days. Wouldn't drive through there either. It would be a recipe for disaster to go there.

Well.... that was tonight's rant... :rant:

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-04-2008, 07:39 PM
Peru is another planet. Literally speaking.


Welcome to NY....I use to drive years ago along I-95 that slices along NY city...if your vehicle stalled out in one area, if you didn't get it towed off...the "boys" would come over and strip it down...hoods/doors...engine parts...tires...etc were taken from vehicle.

Ok, with 9 million people and parts being higher cost, I can understand this activity that "recycles" vehicles, part by part.

In Cuba, they have older pre 1959 American vehicles, and they too make the best out of what they got...but I don't think the "bad guys" are involved in this trade.

Well, I was going to look for one of those oil filter assemblies in my local yard, but I just never got around to it. It would be on older mentioned vehicles, but I don't know if newer 3.1 & 3.4 motors have this auxiliary oil port.

Your oil pressure sending unit also controls fuel pump relay (if someone did not change the OEM wiring), but if you get down to that low of oil pressure, its most likely too late.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-05-2008, 12:41 AM
http://www.signs-up.com/prod_images/Attack%20Goat_attack_640.jpg

CieraSL92
05-08-2008, 01:29 AM
Qoute from http://www.cardomain.com/ride/382196. Regarding his 60 degree V6, he mentioned this as a mod: early '80-'82 distributor with the in-cap coil; to add the Accel module and super Coil

Thought you might be interested in that tidbit since your cap apparently didn't from your car.

Tuddi
05-15-2008, 12:27 AM
Lucky strike for me today. I found a new advance pot for the distributor. I could have had the old one repaired for 15 dollars, or buy a brand new one for 30. I took the new one... even though it was a murderous price for such a small item. I expect the fuel economy to improve a bit after this. I needed to take off the valve cover towards the firewall, since one of the lifters had gotten blocked and the engine had a metal against metal squeaking... no, I did not spray it with the magical stop a squeak, but cleared out the blocked lifter and the problem was solved.... my guess is that it's a freak chunk of additive/oil sediment that caused the blockage (after having the engine apart 2 times in the past year, not having it properly washed either time is likely the reason).

Also discovered a crack in the top of the vacuum canister, so it was sucking false air... after I placed it on the firewall (to get spac for the second battery) it's simply too close to the hood, I repaired the crack with silicone... and will fix it's placement, so it will not be nudging against the frame of the hood as it is now. It's only a couple of millimeters it needs in order to be totally free from the hood, so it's not a major issue. Will take it to be tuned tomorrow. That should be possible, now that I have the advance pot connected and working and the vacuum lines are not leaky and that I have marked TDC on the harmonic balancer. At least worth a try.

Isn't the 2.8 engine supposed to be timed at 10 degrees before TDC ? or is it 6 degrees?

Tuddi
05-15-2008, 12:29 AM
Ps.
I snapped photos of two of the sparkplugs the other day, but forgot to post them.... now using a different puter...

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-15-2008, 02:37 AM
Isn't the 2.8 engine supposed to be timed at 10 degrees before TDC ? or is it 6 degrees?

Ported Vacuum - The advance pot for the distributor should be hooked to ported vacuum, as I recall. Ported Vacuum means when vehicle is at an idle, there is not vacuum going to distributor's pot...but as motor's speed is increased, a vacumm will be acting upon distributor's pot.

Timing - Remove vacuum line from distributor's pot, and plug it with a Golf Tee. Then do your timing at an idle. I would start with 6 degrees to be on the safe side.

I have a book that might cover exact timing, but its in a machine shed, some five miles from where I live...maybe Thursday, I'll look for it.

Tuddi
05-15-2008, 07:23 AM
Thanks.... I didn't have the advance pot on a ported vacuum... I will move it over to one of those.

And the timing is to be 10 degrees, according to many references found with google.

And according to this site (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/sbs.htm), I should be getting 18-24 mpg out of the car, so it's got quite a lot of space for improvement (11-17 miles more pr gallon of improvement... )

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-15-2008, 05:41 PM
timing is to be 10 degrees


Yes, after looking at a Chilton book (1982-95), it indicates 6B for manual, and 10B for automatic.

But...but....are you running high octane fuel down there...is your octane rating the same as USs?

Many years ago, I took a trip to old Mexico on a motorcycle...oh, that brand new motorcycle ran piss/poor on their lower octane "regular."

Hence, if you are not sure your KNOCK SENSOR is working (assuming you have one; I would have to review your setup), use 6B...and turn off the radio, and LISTEN TO THE MOTOR...with vacuum pot working, it will be advancing your timing now...

Tuddi
05-15-2008, 07:44 PM
I've been using 84 octane leaded lately, but that should be fine for this engine (at least it is better for my private economy). It hasn't lost, nor improved on the MPG since I changed from using 97 octane, and if anything, it runs steadier with the leaded poison.

I went with the car to a tune up place and did the work myself, due to distrust of the workforce here in general... and I only needed the strobe light gun... first I put it at 6°, but it ran like crap there... moved over to 10°, and it still runs like crap there, even though it´s a litte better than at 6°. When I turn off the engine, it sputters and kicks and whirrs and caughs for a long time before it finally runs out of gasoline and shuts up..... I double checked with the TDC position of cyl #1 and the marking on the Harmonic Balancer was in the area, but at around 30° BTDC (rough estimate), where I had put it a couple of day´s ago according to ear. It was running quite nicely there... though a little too light if anything. At least it did turn on and off in a very nice way... so I think there´s something else causing the car to run like shit when it´s set at where it should be.... I will try to regulate the distributor again by using my ears and checking throttle response....

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-19-2008, 05:22 AM
.....84 octane leaded lately...turn off engine, it sputters and kicks...around 30° BTDC...

Carb vehicles would sputter/kick if fuel was added when key is turned off...which means there are "hot spots" which ignite fuel. OEMs used various means to control this, like fuel shut-off solenoid, or solenoid to bring throttle plate to closed position, etc.

Throttle Plate - If it is too far open, this could be the reason...

Whatever Carb is being used, does/did it have a way to shut down fuel somehow when key is switched off. I'm not familiar with your Carb...but is there an electrical wire going to it, or some type of solenoid hooked to it.

I've been busy lately, but I want to re-read how your distributor is setup....typical distributor did not give vacuum advance until engine rpm would increase via ported vacuum. I will re-read about your distributor setup Monday....I know it has a retard side, if I recall.

>30° BTDC (rough estimate)

With lower octane fuel....I know the timing has to be shifted...since there is a greater chance of pre-denotation.....that said, since vehicle was sold over there, GM may have had a different timing for it...anyway to find another vehicle like yours and see if a sticker is in engine compartment explaining this? Or maybe asking the mechanics who worked on it at police department...they may have some old books on it...real cheap:eek3:

Again, let me review how your distributor is suppose to work...before commenting further.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-19-2008, 05:33 AM
put it at 6°
moved over to 10°


Relative to what? What you see on Harmonic Balancer index?


around 30° BTDC (rough estimate)

Relative to what, when TDC is on Cyclinder one????

I want to make sure you understand this....if your Balancer has shifted from its original position, then what index value represents TDC on #1 cylinder?

Tuddi
05-19-2008, 11:01 PM
Relative to TDC on cyl #1.

I marked the TDC position on the Harmonic Balancer, but I seriously think that it's outer ring is moving, since the engine ran like crap after I adjusted according to the markings.

I have not rechecked, but it is running quite acceptably after tuning it according to ear and feel.

Thanks for the time you put into this.

turbokinetic
05-19-2008, 11:11 PM
One realization I came to long ago with "Factory Specs." The Factory Specs apply to the engine with all its Factory systems and in conjunction with all the other Factory settings.

Once the engine is modified or changed that Factory Spec may no longer apply. It may be that using the Factory Spec will cause detonation (removal of EGR system) or that the Factory Spec will cause poor performance (modified engine).

On a car as "unique" as Tuddi's car, tuning it by ear may be the only way possible to get it to run correctly.

Just my two cents worth, but it has cost me far more than two cents to learn this....

David

Pontiac6ksteawd
05-20-2008, 12:32 AM
Carb vehicles would sputter/kick if fuel was added when key is turned off...which means there are "hot spots" which ignite fuel. OEMs used various means to control this, like fuel shut-off solenoid, or solenoid to bring throttle plate to closed position, etc.

Easiest way to get a car that kicks and sputters when shut off, to actually shut off. Leave the car in gear when you turn off the ignition. Wont hurt anything.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 01:03 AM
I marked the TDC position on the Harmonic Balancer, but I seriously think that it's outer ring is moving


I have no idea if you could mark the inner ring on balancer, and watch it....or mark both, and see if outer ring is slipping.

When shooting the timing light, one must (or try) to be inline (perpendicular) to timing index; you might take a flashlight at night, and see if you could see some point on the inner ring that could be marked, and seen.

If you could unbolt the center bolt on harmonic balancer, and then find TDC on Number 1, you may find the KeyStock is at twelve or one O'clock position, if this is the case with your vehicle's motor....anyone know for sure which position KeyStock will be in for older 2.8 motor? I think on my ex 3.8 motor, it was in the one o'clock position.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/englander23/3_8timing.jpg

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 01:12 AM
On a car as "unique" as Tuddi's car, tuning it by ear may be the only way possible to get it to run correctly.


Years ago, my mechanically challenged brother used a vacuum gauge to time his vehicle....back then, a vacuum gauge might show early/normal/late timing on it.

He blew out number one piston....and I repaired it.

Yes, your point is somewhat valid....but a motor running-on tends to be due to extra fuel being dumped into engine...so, the question is (1) is some part of carb not hooked up or functioning correctly, and/or (2) is throttle plate opened farther than it should be.

Either engine vacuum is sucking fuel via idle/main jets, or his carb is leaking fuel. Changing the timing is most likely affecting how hot the hot spots are....so, when retarded far enough, those hot spots will be cool, and motor will not have full power, and burn extra fuel.

Hence, I think this topic needs to be addressed....leak-ie Carb....Carb not shutting down fuel...throttle plate open too wide, which allows suction of fuel into intake.

turbokinetic
05-20-2008, 01:12 AM
.....to get a car that kicks...... to actually shut off.... in gear when you turn off the ignition.....

This is "running-on" or "dieseling" and it is caused by something other than the spark plugs igniting the fuel air mixture. Typically it is an overheated engine, or a small overheated spot in the engine; or a buildup of crud in the engine that stays hot (like a firebrick heater) and continues to ignite the fuel.

If you find yourself having to kill it in gear often to stop the engine, check to make sure your cooling system is in good order. Make sure there is not sediment in the heads causing areas of poor coolant circulation.

Then, de-carbonize the combustion chambers by using water. Start the engine warm (not hot) and pour water in the intake with the engine revved up, following this procedure.

Put the water in a one quart squeeze bottle with a 3/16" to 1/4" hole. Gear oil bottles work excellent! Hold the throttle at about 1/4 throttle. As soon as engine reaches 1500 to 2000 RPM, give it a HEALTHY squirt of water down the carburetor. Do not let it go dead. As soon as it revvs back up, hit it again with a HEALTHY squirt of water.

Dribbling the water will not do it, it has to be a large enough squirt to nearly choke the engine down each time.

Once you've used up the water, replace the air filter. Warm up engine fully and drive for 10 or 15 miles to clear moisure from engine.

NEVER do this on a diesel, and do not let the engine go dead. Position the exhaust pipe over some old cardboard, dirt, or some other place you don't mind a large amount of black crud being discharged.

Later,
David

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 01:21 AM
84 is the only leaded gasoline available


Just reviewing this thread....if I recall, leaded fuel will take out O2 sensor, if you had one....I'm really surprised they have it down there.

turbokinetic
05-20-2008, 01:25 AM
Years ago, my mechanically challenged brother used a vacuum gauge to time his vehicle.........He blew out number one piston.....

Lol!! Must have been WAAAY advanced. :kekeke:

As far as the throttle and fuel shutting off goes, my car had exactly the same engine Tuddi has. It was a Rochester Varajet 2. I never had any running-on problems EXCEPT when the engine was idled up above spec.

I would always set my idle by sound but it was near 750 RPM. This carb was fully mechanical, mothing electronic and the only external vacuum connections were manifold vacuum to the secondary air valve; and a ported vacuum line to the distributor advance. Everything else was capped off. EGR valve had been removed and blanked off.

The carburetor had no way to know (electrically) wheher the ignition was ON or OFF. It did have an electric choke heater, though. That took hours to reset to CHOKE after the key was turned off.

If he has a vacuum leak causing a fast idle, and the idle mix screw was enriched to allow it to idle smoothly in this condition, it would be the same as having the idle screw set too far open.

I got tired of the carb and mechanical destributor and went EFI Turbo :rock: So it's been a while since I messed with one of these!

David

turbokinetic
05-20-2008, 01:32 AM
Just reviewing this thread....if I recall, leaded fuel will take out O2 sensor, if you had one....I'm really surprised they have it down there.

IIRC when he posted the pictures, it has the non-CCC carburetor.

This picture shows the carb, it was from a previous post in this thread. I have graffiti's on it a little! True graffiti because I misspelled "sensor" and possibly other words...

http://68.209.87.173/Temp/tuddi_carb3.jpg

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 01:49 AM
1. Thread on HEI: HEI: 2.8 V6: idling is really rough and unsteady (http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?t=365)

2. Distributor - It has vacuum and centrifugal advance, which means both need to be checked via timing light. Ask, if you don't know how.

3. It was indicated you had an ECM in your interior I think, but since your distributor has a vaccum pot on it....this would suggest the distributor did not come with this vehicle. I'm not aware of any GM vehicles with ECM that had distributors with vacuum pot on it...none...the ECM took care of timing advance (when system was functioning).

Hence, we need to re-examine this topic....if you do in fact have an ECM, then this distributor was stuck in there....

Let me review this topic in that thread...

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 01:51 AM
it has the non-CCC carburetor.

Yes, but it was indicated he has an ECM...so, this vehicle is a "mixed bag."

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 02:04 AM
Distributor - As based upon the "H-L-D" nomenclature on your module, this can be found on Electronic Spark Selection (ESS) System...this system also has vacuum pot and mechanical advance....which yours has too, if working.

Now, if you have an ECM in your vehicle, this distributor was not part of OEM setup. If you could pull that ECM out, and give us some numbers off of it, we could ID your OEM setup much better...chances are, it was a traditional OEM setup sold in states.

Hence, I suspect someone ghetto rigged this vehicle....but with ESS system, there should be an addition box elsewhere for it, to be working properly. It would have come from 1978-80 Cadillac models....Cadillac V6, 2.8 L is most likely the donor vehicle....if they used 2.8 L in 1978-80....at least for US models.

turbokinetic
05-20-2008, 02:09 AM
Yes, but it was indicated he has an ECM...so, this vehicle is a "mixed bag."

Almost as much of a mixed bag as my 84 Century Olympia ... with a Buick 3.0 V6 with 3.8 crank, aftermarket Grand national camshaft, 60°V6 lifters, 3800 lifter antirotation plates; Chevy V8 pickup TBI injector, harness, and ECM; 1979 Riviera intake manifold exhaust and turbocharger; 1994 Century radiator and electric fan; 1986 Sunbird Turbo MAP sensor; 1989 Cadillac alternator; and 1990 LeSabre in-tank fuel pump. :D

Look back in this thread, I think Tuddi posted a pict of the ECM. It looks like an early "retard" box from the turbo Buicks. Could have been controlling the ESS system?

turbokinetic
05-20-2008, 02:11 AM
This was the module, No numbers on it.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BluesmobilePuterPic.jpg

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 02:19 AM
Next time at that shop....see if your timing changes as your engine increases in RPM....if your timing is "flat," and does not change...bingo...that ghetto rigged setup was engineered by "Idiots-R-Us."

If true, you would be better off getting a regular HEI distributor.....but, I'm not in touch with advance curves used on pre-ECM vehicles vs ECM vehicle....other than ECM vehicles had a wider advance curve with denotation sensor setup.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 02:44 AM
Could have been controlling the ESS system?

It was stated his vehicle has a SES light....which was not part of ESS system.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 02:46 AM
This was the module,

He indicated wires were cut.....I think at firewall....if true, he could take it out and look for sometype of ID.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 02:51 AM
Put the water in a one quart squeeze bottle


Using ethanol fuel may clean up internal engine parts (valves, intake, etc) also...if he has access to it; I've never seen an engine using ethanol with carbon buildup yet.

Some people use SEA FOAM MOTOR TREATMENT (http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm), but I've found ethanol does it much cheaper.

Ethanol is E-10....not E-85.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-20-2008, 06:58 PM
Comments:

1. If ECM/ESS_Module is unplugged, disconnect battery first.

2. 1988 2.8 - Crank Keystock position for TDC is at eleven O'clock...but this is a different motor than say 1985...they could have changed this aspect, since crank journals are larger.

3. Timing - Might reconnect distributor's pot vacuum line to a vacuum source while using a timing light, then pull it off the vacuum and see if timing changes....or you can suck on vacuum line too.

Again, as engine rpm increases, there should be a change in timing, advancing farther...if it does not, then (1) ESS Module is required to do this, and/or (2) Mechanical and Vacuum advance are both broken....something rusted which prevents plate from moving.

Tuddi
05-21-2008, 04:44 AM
The advance pot is new and it does pull it's "arm" and the mechanism down under the distributor hammer.... I have not (yet) checked it with a timing light, but will do that soon. Have to find some darn place that sells timing guns... I've never been without complete tool package until I moved down to Peru. Before I had everything... ranging from everything in screwdrivers to MIG welders, painting equipment and specialized tools (no computer tuning equipment though).

Doing things with hobby tools is not the way forward, but I'm trying to keep things at a minimum, while being able to do the maximum... ... so obviously I need to invest in more tools.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-21-2008, 06:33 PM
The advance pot is new and it does pull it's "arm" and the mechanism down under the distributor hammer.

If it is an ESS Distributor....you should be able to take off the distributor cap, and rotate a small bit the rotor....If you can't rotate the rotor a little, then your mechanical/vacuum advance is not working at all.

Later today, I'll pull off a distributor cap and turn the rotor to see how far it moves....its been too many years since I messed with mechanical distributors....they became "history" around 1980 era for most all US vehicles using computers.

Tuddi
05-21-2008, 07:54 PM
I just ran water through the engine... pouring it down the carb while engine was running at around 3000 rpm (estimated guess). At the other end I only received white steam and water spurts. No black soot. Yes, I did give it serious squirts that almost stalled the engine... pouring from a 3liter bottle. The exhaust system is relatively new in terms of milages and hours the car has been running since installation... and that probably explains the lack of black soot coming out.

There was no audible difference or different feel afterwards... but at least it got a car-wash in a non traditional way.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-22-2008, 12:54 AM
Distributor - 1968 Rambler

1. Vacuum Advance - On mine, the plate rotates (which has point set on it)

2. Mechanical Advance - On mine, the rotor rotates (which has distributor's lobes on it).

I have removed this 199 cubic inch motor from my old Rambler American recently, and placed it on a pallot...so it was easy to check.

I would have to look at a GM HEI distributor, but it most likely is similiar.

Tuddi
05-24-2008, 01:45 AM
Ok, today I wanted to take a picture of the little shock absorber (torque strut? ) on the engine, but the camera is bulky and didn't want to fit in anywhere in sight of the darn thing.

Well, anyways... I thought I't degrease the engine which was VERY smudgy after last time it was taken out by dirty mechanics who probably only see a bath once every month... and only use it once every year... I have tried many different specialized cleaning chemicals in the past, and have never been satisfied with the results... and these cleaners for engines are normally quite expensive. So I invested in a MrMuscle oven cleaner spray can.
http://www.britishfooddirect.com/images/5000204890938_200.jpg
It's similar to this one... only in spanish... one sprayes it on cold ovens and it supposedly eats up all the fat and stains and crap one will get in ovens during use. It generates foam and is supposed to work for 30 minutes, and then be sponged off.

I sprayed it on everything I could reach on the outside of the engine block, including cables, wires, hoses etc etc. Let it stay on for the 30 minutes, drove the car around the house and used the gardenhose to flush everything away (no sponging work of course)....

Then I started the car again, drove and parked it in front of my home and let things dry.

I am truly amazed at how clean the engine got. There's no oil to be seen anywhere. It's dry and clean as it probably hasn't been since it was new.

Well... dry.... ehemmm... there's something wet somewhere... because now the car won't start at all. The engine normally starts on the first second when turning the key.... but now it's not starting at all. It is getting sparks to the plugs, but very weak, and not all on every pass of the distributor.

Inside the distributor things were wet... but not so much that it should kill the ignition...

I tested how much I could turn the ignition hammer module... and it goes just about one inch on the springs...

Well... I will be checking on the car again tomorrow... and hope that whatever it was that got wet, will be dry and functioning again.

If not, i will have a long day going through wires and connections etc.

Bottom line is however: If you want to clean an oil smudged engine block / engine compartment, do not hesitate to use oven cleaner from MrMuscle... or any similar cleaner for cleaning COLD ovens.

Amazing effect.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-24-2008, 03:48 AM
...hesitate to use oven cleaner from MrMuscle...

I'm not sure if that is good for Aluminum...I tried that stuff on an Aluminum intake manifold, and power washed it off after a bit...yes it cleans...but something "ate up" my thermostat, I found out later.

I'd be careful about what this oven cleaner is put on...

1995 Gold Ciera
05-24-2008, 04:23 AM
Those were great pictures Tuddi. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoy seeing other parts of the world and the people that live there.

I'm guessing you're not originally from Peru. Where were born and when did you move there, if I may be so bold?

Tuddi
05-24-2008, 11:36 AM
I'm guessing you're not originally from Peru. Where were born and when did you move there, if I may be so bold?

No worries for boldness.

I was born and raised up in Iceland, where my ancestors had been making sure I would get a good start.

I left Iceland at the age of 18, to explore the world on my own, and enjoyed doing that until I was...... well.. what the heck..... I STILL enjoy exploring the world.

I have lived in Peru for the past 7 1/2 years, and love every second of it.... SERIOUSLY!!

When I came here, I knew not more than 3 words in spanish.... and now I have no problems with it at all.

LIfe should be lived.... not only read about. After I lived for 12 years in Denmark and left, I left my house behind... lost a couple of hundreds of thousands of dollars of my investment in my property.... but that didn't matter to me, since all I wanted was to get away from that damn country..... and I did.

Life is to be lived... and that is what most people forget about......

My life is an open book.... just ask, and I will speak out.

1995 Gold Ciera
05-24-2008, 06:11 PM
No worries for boldness.

I was born and raised up in Iceland, where my ancestors had been making sure I would get a good start.

I left Iceland at the age of 18, to explore the world on my own, and enjoyed doing that until I was...... well.. what the heck..... I STILL enjoy exploring the world.

I have lived in Peru for the past 7 1/2 years, and love every second of it.... SERIOUSLY!!

When I came here, I knew not more than 3 words in spanish.... and now I have no problems with it at all.

LIfe should be lived.... not only read about. After I lived for 12 years in Denmark and left, I left my house behind... lost a couple of hundreds of thousands of dollars of my investment in my property.... but that didn't matter to me, since all I wanted was to get away from that damn country..... and I did.

Life is to be lived... and that is what most people forget about......

My life is an open book.... just ask, and I will speak out.

Wow!!! You are doing what most people only dream of doing. It's great to see that people like yourself are still out there and living life to the fullest regardless of money, language, etc.

I always told myself when I was a kid that I would never be a slave to the almighty dollar (our not-so-mighty now:rofl:) but alas, I am.

Here's to many happy trails and wonderful new chapters in your book of life :cheers:

Tuddi
05-25-2008, 09:23 PM
Thanks for good wishes... and indeed life is to be lived... I would hate to be compartamentalized and have to do as is "expected".

Anyways. The car doesn't want to wake up again.

I have taken out all the plugs, cleaned them split the distributor apart (it was with water and moisture inside... also in the top part where the built in power pack is, it was moist.... I have tested the spark wires, and they are seemingly quite ok.

It DOES give sparks... but those are not powerful or blue.... more like tiny reddish crappers that need some electrical viagra.

I have given up on the car as it is now... with the distributor cap in the back window where it can be dried totally (if there is any moisture at all left) in the sun.

Tomorrow I will get myself new plug wires and hope the damn thing will start again.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-26-2008, 12:36 AM
distributor apart...power pack is, it was moist...new plug wires

Is the coil ("power pack") still out? Do you have a decent ohm meter?

Plug Wires...have you checked them with an ohm meter?

Tuddi
05-26-2008, 12:56 AM
Still out, and yes, I have a reasonably ok multimeter.

I did check the plug wires with the ohm meter today, and they all showed the same resistance.

It would be strange if they all got bad at once.

I have had the engine up and running with only 3 cylinders connected... so I am sure it would require at least 4 wires to be totally bad (disconnected) in order for the engine not running at all.

During many many attempts at having the engine to wake up, it has farted 3 times... as if one of the cylinders got a spark big enough to ignite the gasoline (and gasoline it gets... no worries about that.... that's the one thing the car makes sure of getting through it's system at all times... even when it doesn't start).

Tuddi
05-26-2008, 07:00 PM
After baking in the rear window in the sun, the distributor cap with the built-in ignition coil was burning hot and there was no chance in hell it could contain a single droplet of moisture.

I assembled the whole thing again, turned the key, and on the first turn the engine was purring.

So I'm aware of it's weakness for moisture/water in and around the distributor area. Fortunate for me to live in the desert, where it almost never rains.

1995 Gold Ciera
05-26-2008, 07:38 PM
After baking in the rear window in the sun, the distributor cap with the built-in ignition coil was burning hot and there was no chance in hell it could contain a single droplet of moisture.

I assembled the whole thing again, turned the key, and on the first turn the engine was purring.

So I'm aware of it's weakness for moisture/water in and around the distributor area. Fortunate for me to live in the desert, where it almost never rains.

Thank God it's up and running. I don't know what I would do without my car:(

Good problem solving there:)

Tuddi
05-27-2008, 12:11 AM
Without a car... losing weight by walking more. Sounds tempting, but I am too lazy to do the right thing.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-27-2008, 01:49 AM
...distributor cap...built-in ignition coil...weakness for moisture/water...

Its been years since I messed with HEI setup, but I can't remember how coil was sealed...I did find this tidbit:

The GM HEI's good points are... (http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=19440)
--With the one piece cap with no vent, the cap works as an air bubble to keep the high voltage circuit moisture free when driving through water.


I would have to review some GM tech stuff, but I don't know if you were suppose to use silicone or something when putting it back together or not....too many years ago, and I very seldom had to mess with HEI...usually, it was the module that was defective.

Tuddi
05-27-2008, 04:25 AM
Wow... thanks for the link. Great reading... but I bailed out after when coming to "Whats the diff between the HEI upgrade and the TR/TFI upgrade?"

I used electrical insulation tape. Wrapped it two times around the top when it was open. Put on the top and it felt like a snug-fit. I'd be surprised if it will ever again get wet.

But I also have to figure out to make a seal for the cap where it meets it's base. There it's just wide open for whatever kind of moisture that wants to challenge my good mood.... but by doing so, I might be inviting the ozone buildup problems described in the link you provided... I already have red dust in there.... so ... maybe I'll just secure the 2 positions where the wires enter, and hope it will be enough.

1995 Gold Ciera
05-27-2008, 05:49 PM
Without a car... losing weight by walking more. Sounds tempting, but I am too lazy to do the right thing.

:rofl::lol::rofl::lol:

I know what you mean. I need to lose some major pounds. You know those sympathy cravings that I had when my wife was pregnant really did wonders for my keg-belly. Now I kind of resemble this....


:koolaid:

mickstan_VR
05-27-2008, 11:03 PM
Does this HEI have the advance weights under the rotor? If it does, make sure they move freely. They are on springs and should "snap" back when opened and released. I once had a HEI that the entire advance weight plate mechanism slipped on the distributor shaft. The car ran progressivly worse and worse over time, until finally it ran like sh*t and I had to limp it home. It acted like a sucked in intake gasket leak. It took awhile to find the problem!

Tuddi
05-27-2008, 11:33 PM
Yes, it's in good working condition, sitting right under the white cap with the distribution hammer.

In other news, an hour ago I drove past a Celebrity 85 (I read that from the license plate... mine being JQ1114 the other car being JQ1743 ... I think...)

It has not been in use for quite some time, and is with massive grime and dust and crap all over it. I found out where to find the owner (car is parked in a trafficated repair shop road), but he had left for the day. Tomorrow I will check on him and see if I can lure the car away from him for a symbolic amount... only to use it for spareparts.

It even had the passenger side mirror!! the first one I have seen in Peru with that mirror... but the driver's side mirror was broken off.

Hopefully I get lucky.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-28-2008, 03:07 AM
sitting right under the white cap with the distribution hammer.



Ignition Rotor or Distributor's Rotor

http://www.trustmymechanic.com/parts_gallery/ignition_rotor.jpg

Tuddi
05-28-2008, 04:34 AM
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/IgnitionOpenNumbered.jpg

This is a picture of what's beneath the rotor... which I call for "hammer" .... sorry if that causes some confusion, but it's from Icelandic... and the rotory thingy resembles a hammer.

Tuddi
05-28-2008, 04:36 AM
Since that picture was taken, I have changed the advance pot with a brand new one... if I get the time tomorrow, I probably should snap a couple of pictures.

Tuddi
05-28-2008, 11:12 PM
This is what it looks like under the cap.

http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Dist1butor.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Dist2butor.jpg
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/Dist3butor.jpg

86euro
05-28-2008, 11:47 PM
Hey Tuddi, I was able to get to the junkyard today on company time, but I couldn't stay long. There was an '84 Celebrity with a carbed 2.8, and most parts were still there. It also had a blue interior. If you need anything from the car, I can go back sometime this coming weekend to pull parts.

Tuddi
05-29-2008, 12:50 AM
Many thanks for keeping me in mind. Today I went to speak to what I had been told was the owner of this 85 Celeb I saw yesterday, but he turned out to NOT being the owner... but he knows who has to do with this car, and will have more info for me on friday. If I get that car, I will probably have all the spareparts I will ever need. I went again to the owner of the JQ1118 Celeb I spoke with last year, but he wasn't at home. IF possible, I will be buying both cars and be able to have two operative, and one for parts.

So... I better wait for what happens to this spareparts car. If I get it, there would be very limited need for spareparts from the US....

For now... I think it's better for me to wait and see how it goes on this end.

Thanks again!

1995 Gold Ciera
05-29-2008, 04:44 PM
That would be a great investment. No shipping, ordering, taxes or anything.

Heck, you could even use some of the body parts if God forbid you got a ding in your car.

Here's hoping it all works out!:cheers:

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-29-2008, 05:37 PM
I marked the TDC position on the Harmonic Balancer, but I seriously think that it's outer ring is moving, since the engine ran like crap after I adjusted according to the markings

I am not familiar with how the "computer box" that is suppose to be integrated with HEI.

But, since it (computer box) can control changes in ignition timing, your "base timing" may be different if computer box is not working, and/or you need to send a signal (ground) to it, so it goes to base timing mode.

If Harmonic Balancer has not slipped from its position, or if you marked TDC on it, and timing is not right, then either a signal is not be sent to computer box, or computer box is not working correctly.

I sent two PDF files on that ignition setup some months ago to you....and I think you stated there was a swtich for it somewhere....

Tuddi
05-29-2008, 10:07 PM
Well, yes, there is a switch marked (Normal operation) and (Timing adjustment). It is somehow connected and in working order... because if it is switched from normal to timing while the engine runs idle, the engine stalls.

Swtitching while the engine is revving, is ok, and letting it go down to idle is ok as well. Having it in the Timing adjustment position, and trying to start the engine, will result in it not starting at all.

Right now it is ajusted by ear-feeling, and it's behaving quite well... but has a few seconds of "farting" I need to adjust away. It responds fine so it's not a major problem .... even though I would love to have it perfectly tuned.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
05-29-2008, 11:13 PM
Timing adjustment...Having it in the Timing adjustment position, and trying to start the engine, will result in it not starting at all.


Yes...yes....so, with motor running, flip switch and adjust timing, then flip switch and determine how far timing has changed, and in which direction...BTDC or ATDC. Then, pinch down distributor's bolt...turn off motor, and restart.

Tuddi
06-05-2008, 07:33 PM
Bluesmobile seeking attention: Threw the brakes.

The brake fluid reservoir is full, so it's not a leak.
Everything is dry under the car, not a single drop seems to have leaked anywhere around the wheels or other places.
When I press the pedal down, it goes down half the way with a hissing sound, and the second half results in brakes applying in the rear.... or so I think.

No stopping power.

Anyone want to make a qualified guess on what the problem is?

85_Ciera_Rebuild
06-06-2008, 02:38 AM
brake fluid reservoir is full,
When I press the pedal down, it goes down half the way with a hissing sound,


Buy new...or a rebuilt....or a kit for the master cylinder. Hissing would be from your Brake Vacuum Booster...so most likely it is shot also.

States-side, they sell both units together, or individually.

PS: It was a pill to pull off a Vacuum Booster on 1987 Ciera...

85_Ciera_Rebuild
06-06-2008, 02:45 AM
Footnote - Your master cylinder may still be good...but, if you are going to replace vacuum booster....replace master cylinder.

Tuddi
06-06-2008, 03:20 AM
Will go to a brake shop tomorrow and see what they can offer.

mickstan_VR
06-06-2008, 06:26 AM
Will go to a brake shop tomorrow and see what they can offer.

umm,....a poke in the eye with a sharp stick?:eek3:

I agree, look at the master cylinder first. But the braking system works 1 front and the opposite rear wheel on each circuit. So you have sort-of-even braking if 1 of the 2 circuits looses pressure. Whats the condition of your front pads and rotors?

Tuddi, do you have a Factory Service Manual for your car? If you don't, man you really should have one. Even if its not for your exact car, it sure would help in the troubleshooting department.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
06-06-2008, 05:40 PM
Will go to a brake shop...

Btw, if your Brake Booster has been leaking all along...fixing it will improve your mpg, and allow you to time your vehicle.

I doubt if you have a vacuum gauge....but without good vacuum at idle....guess what...stuff happens....timing the vehicle assumes there are no vacuum leaks....

Tuddi
06-06-2008, 10:25 PM
Brakes are perfect again.

The master brake cylinder was as good as new... no failure or signs of anything failing in it for many years to come. It was the brake booster that snorted through a rubber seal. Simply worn out after a long servicetime. But since things were split in atoms, I had all rubber seals (apart from the huge ones in the booster) changed, and the brakes are just perfect now.

The whole operation took around 4 hours for 3 guys involved and me poking fingers at everything and controlling that no bolts or nuts were left behind. Price: $50.


do you have a Factory Service Manual for your car?

A WHAT ??? :lol::rofl::lol:

Quite honestly, I don't think this car has been in contact with a service manual for the past 22 years... at LEAST.

mickstan_VR
06-07-2008, 03:59 AM
I wonder if a FSM could be found on DVD? Would a local library maybe be able to get one? It might be worth looking into.

Anyway, good to hear that you got it straightened out for only 50 bucks. Hopefully you DID get some vacuum back.

turbokinetic
06-07-2008, 12:09 PM
Glad you got 'er going! My 1972 Nova shot a brake booster a while back. Over the years the master cylinder had leaked and filled the booster with brake fluid. When the booster diaphragm bursted, a huge amount of brake fluid flooded into the engine when I hit the brakes. I saw a car pull out and hit the brakes hard, then it let out a MASSIVE cloud of white smoke, and stalled out.

I caught hell getting it to re-start and ended up with a ruined oxygen sensor. After that, the brake pedal was very hard and low; and there was an air rushing sound from the pedal area when the brakes were pushed.

When changing the booster, I learned that some jackass in years past had replaced the booster with an incorrect model booster and only 2 bolts were holding the booster on the car!!

Tuddi
06-07-2008, 06:09 PM
... local library ...

(Looking around) .... err.... Peru is still a 3rd world country, and there are no libraries here.... not the kinds we know from industrialized nations.

There is the national library, but I have not been there, and have no idea about how they operate or what they have or haven't available.

There was no vacuum leak prior to the failure of the rubber seal... so there's no gain to be found there. .... unfortunately.

Tuddi
06-09-2008, 05:05 AM
This morning I was to go to a business meeting. First I had to wash the car (the dust in the air is terrible and always around). After it was clean, I started it up, and it said 'flop' and coolant poured onto the passenger side floor. So the cabin heater core finally gave up for good. I only had 25 minutes before I had to be at the meeting, so it was a panic-clothes change and fix that will be "permanent" solution until I get my hands on another heater core somewhere someday.

After everything was reassembled (core disconnected) I washed my hands and arms with my coffee solution in half a minute, jumped into my non-dirt-job clothes and made it on time to the meeting. That was the fastest properly done fix I have done for many years... and I am thankful that the car decided to give itself a heater core blowjob while at home, rather than away from home, since that enabled me to get through it without any inconvenience to speak of at all.

LordDurock
06-09-2008, 05:09 AM
if you get a change that maybe a bronze core you should be able ot get the recored rather easly................if not the aluminum ones can be recored as well. and ware your at you should get a good price ;)

Tuddi
06-09-2008, 06:24 AM
I will pull out the core in a few months or so... even during the winter time here, I drive with the side window all the way down due to there otherwise being too hot in the car... I did ask a radiator repair friend of mine if he could repair the heater core (almost a year ago), and he said it would not be easy to fix, and the best thing would be to get a new one. Something to do with the materials and construction (difficult to get to most leaky areas when these go).

Tuddi
07-16-2008, 07:43 AM
Not that I have dropped off the face of the earth.... just been busy in the software development ( www.flashificator.com ) ... and that would be the whole reason for me being away. Release date is set to be this month... and yet there are a million things left to do... so there really isn't time for much else.

The brakes on the car went out again a couple of days ago... so the "repair" that actually resulted in the brakes being good, was not the fountain of fix... as it should have been. The pedal goes well half way towards the floor without any resistance, then at the bottom it brakes ... but in a pathetic way.

Will have to have the whole system checked out when I get time.

Best of wishes for you's and your cars.

dcjredline
07-16-2008, 02:28 PM
Damn sorry to hear Tuddi, this is terrible things happening to a good guy. Hope you have better luck in the VERY NEAR future.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
07-16-2008, 05:16 PM
brakes on the car...pedal goes well half way towards the floor without any resistance, then at the bottom it brakes ... but in a pathetic way.

If no fluid is being lost....then Master Cylinder needs to be replaced.

If fluid is being lost...then wheel cylinders and/or Master Cylinder (may be sucked into vacuum booster)

Tuddi
07-17-2008, 03:03 AM
No fluid is lost. Not a drop. And I would have been willing to accept the master cylinder being the culprit, but when I had the MC and booster taken off and serviced, I did check the MC personally from all angles. It had absolutely zero wear and tear. Looked as if it had just been installed a couple of days earlier, and not years ago. Not a scratch on the piston either, and all the seals were replaced with new ones (except for the big rubber seal on the booster which was in "better than new" condition. But there has to be a reason for the brakes being gone, and the only reason possible in my view, is the MC... and I can't accept that to be the case.

Well... time will probably prove me wrong. :)

85_Ciera_Rebuild
07-18-2008, 01:55 AM
...It had absolutely zero wear and tear....all the seals were replaced with new ones....

Maybe O-rings for the Master Cylinder were not suited for brake fluid...and loss their integrity...

Tuddi
10-28-2008, 03:59 AM
Hi everyone. It's been quite a while since my last visit. I haven't changed or given up on my Bluesmobile. Not by a long shot.

The software I have been developing for the past almost 11 months, finally saw the light (after too many setbacks and delays) before this past weekend, and it's been busy on my end, before that... also now that it's out, people need advice and directions to get things up and running, but it has proven itself to be a success, having sold double the copies I thought I could sell during the first month of release, and the users are impressed by their ability to do things in seconds and minutes, that took them days/weeks/months by hand coding earlier. If they are happy, I am happy.

As to the brake problem my bluesmobile had... it was simple... yet serious. The culprit was the rubber seal between the power brake booster and the master brake cylinder:
http://upload.hraunfjord.org/files/BBseal.jpg

It was a replacement part I got last time I had the brakes fixed... made in China, containing more cracky plastic than a shopping bag, and probably never come close to real rubber. It was torn from the center and out, resulting in complete loss of any vacuum in the brake system.... hurray!

Got a new seal installed for 5 dollars.... so that was a good turnout. The replacement seal this time, was made out of rubber, and should last until the end of times.

Hope you and your rides are at good health.

Take care. I'll be popping in from time to time.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
10-28-2008, 04:12 AM
brake problem...culprit was the rubber seal between the power brake booster and the master brake cylinder:


Many years ago, I bought some CV Boots made in India...after about 1,000 miles, they would split open.....I initially thought my technique was the problem, but found out it was the rubber compound they used....