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The Mad Hatter
10-05-2008, 10:34 PM
OK. I've found out now that i have my cluster out, that my car has a speedo cable and not a VSS type cluster. My question to yous guys is, were there any speedo cable type clusters with full gauges? I've got a full gauges cluster, but it is the VSS type. I suppose i could swap it over for the 3800/5 speed swap, but i'm curious if there is a cable type one. Thanks!

Tonglebeak
10-05-2008, 11:37 PM
I swear I'm going to make another thread on this...time to whip out the service manual. What car are you going to be putting in the cluster for? And is it currently an idiot cluster?

The Mad Hatter
10-06-2008, 12:28 AM
My car is an 86 Celebrity, 2.5L, with an idiot cluster. I'm swapping in a 95 3800 and a 5 speed, and i'd like a full gauge cluster.

Tonglebeak
10-06-2008, 12:41 AM
Oh, don't have any info on the celeb. SOrry.

dagr8tim
10-06-2008, 01:00 AM
http://tim.midwestlost.com/albums/jy7-18-19-2008/100_0663.sized.jpg
http://tim.midwestlost.com/albums/jy7-18-19-2008/100_0664.sized.jpg

That's from an 85 International Ciera.

Tonglebeak
10-06-2008, 01:22 AM
Are the celeb/ciera clusters interchangable (as far as idiot vs idiot and cluster vs cluster goes)?

The Mad Hatter
10-06-2008, 01:22 AM
I appreciate the info, but I shoulda been more specific. Is there a full cluster for a Celebrity that has a speedo cable, rather than the VSS setup? Here's what i have:
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/rapscallion_83/IMG00023.jpg
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/rapscallion_83/IMG00024.jpg
On top is the VSS cluster i shanghai'd from the junkyard, and on the bottom is the cluster from my car.

86euro
10-06-2008, 01:58 AM
I don't yet know what exactly is involved in switching from cable to VSS, I'll get to that sometime. Yes, the cable driven Celebs ('82-'86) were available with a gauge package.
I also had an '88 Celeb 2.8 that I swapped from idiot lights to gauges, and the only thing required for the swap was a new temp switch/sending unit (it did both operations and the car was pre-wired for it).

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-06-2008, 02:19 AM
My suggestion is to find a 86 and older celebrity, with full guages, and swap them in. It would be much simpler.

SCREECH
10-06-2008, 01:48 PM
my car has a speedo cable and not a VSS type cluster...were there any speedo cable type clusters with full gauges? I've got a full gauges cluster, but it is the VSS type. I suppose i could swap it over for the 3800/5 speed swap, but i'm curious if there is a cable type one. Thanks!
J, you need the VSS style cluster for the 5 speed - there's no cable drive on the Getrag, at least not the one from the Celeb. Use your VSS cluster. If you are installing a cable-driven speedo sending unit into the Getrag then I have an '86 Celeb cluster from a Eurosport which is cable driven.

The Mad Hatter
10-06-2008, 02:20 PM
Trevor, thanks for the info! I figured you might know what i need since i'm using parts i got from you. Guess i need to convert the ol' girl over to VSS then.

Pontiac6ksteawd
10-07-2008, 04:11 AM
RareCarVR was telling me that some of the Z24 Cavaliers had a dual style output. Both VSS and Cable, 5 speed. Should be interesting.

a1veedubber
10-07-2008, 04:45 AM
RareCarVR was telling me that some of the Z24 Cavaliers had a dual style output. Both VSS and Cable, 5 speed. Should be interesting.

That would enable you to use the cable driven 120mph police speedo! :rock:

SCREECH
10-07-2008, 02:19 PM
RareCarVR was telling me that some of the Z24 Cavaliers had a dual style output. Both VSS and Cable, 5 speed. Should be interesting.
Oh, you mean like...THIS:
http://screech.ws/miscpics/90cav_5spd/cav_vss_connector1.jpg

Yes, Mitch was indeed correct, except for the fact that it's not just the Z24s that had this - it was ANY Getrag equipped J-body I believe. I had a '90 MG1 Getrag 5 speed Sunbird Turbo (that I took surprisingly few pictures of!) which likely had the same setup. I actually never checked the VSS on the trans as I sold the car virtually in the state I bought it in. Regardless, the picture I posted above was from a '90 Cavalier RS, 3.1L, MG2 Getrag 5 speed. The Cavalier clusters used cable driven speedometers even up into the '90s! However, the MPFI engines required the VSS signal to the ECM, hence the "hybrid" speedometer sending units. Odd indeed!!

Just for comparison, here's the VSS on the Getrag from an '88 Celeb (you can see the VSS on the trans below, no cable hookup):
http://screech.ws/miscpics/88euro_5spd_blk/hydraulic_components/assembly2.jpg

The Mad Hatter
10-07-2008, 10:35 PM
That would enable you to use the cable driven 120mph police speedo! :rock:

Yeah, where would you find one of those nowadays? :dunno:

86euro
10-07-2008, 11:58 PM
RareCarVR was telling me that some of the Z24 Cavaliers had a dual style output. Both VSS and Cable, 5 speed. Should be interesting.

Awesome! I need to look for one of those:rock:


That would enable you to use the cable driven 120mph police speedo! :rock:

Exactly what I was thinking! Of course, I need to find one first, lol.

The Mad Hatter
10-08-2008, 12:19 AM
J, you need the VSS style cluster for the 5 speed - there's no cable drive on the Getrag, at least not the one from the Celeb. Use your VSS cluster. If you are installing a cable-driven speedo sending unit into the Getrag then I have an '86 Celeb cluster from a Eurosport which is cable driven.

Hey Trevor, is the Cavy piece (speedo gear/VSS) a direct swap for the piece on the Celeb Getrag? Just more of a curiosity question than anything else, but if i ever come across a 120 speedo in my travels, i'd like to be able to know if i can swap it in.

a1veedubber
10-08-2008, 02:36 AM
Yeah, where would you find one of those nowadays?




Exactly what I was thinking! Of course, I need to find one first, lol.

They do turn up from time to time! I got mine on eBay a few years back from a Police car dismantler in Arizona. My goal is to actually need it one day! My current plans are for possibly throwing a Buick 3.3 or 3.8 in the Eurosport at some time in the future. I would like to keep my 3 speed TH125 so that it could run the police speedo. Then theres always the 2.5/manual trans option, though I am leaning towards the Buick V6....I just love them!

SCREECH
10-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Hey Trevor, is the Cavy piece (speedo gear/VSS) a direct swap for the piece on the Celeb Getrag? Just more of a curiosity question than anything else, but if i ever come across a 120 speedo in my travels, i'd like to be able to know if i can swap it in.
I don't know what would be involved in swapping it, to be honest. I have a couple Getrag rebuild manuals, but I've never bothered to look into it. If I happen to remember when I come across my manuals while organizing the garage (an ongoing project in itself!) I'll look into it.


I would like to...run the police speedo...theres always the 2.5/manual trans option, though I am leaning towards the Buick V6...
I DO still have the Muncie 4 speed transmission and cable clutch setup (including pedals, cables, shifter and necessary mount hardware) from an '85 Eurosport. That would bolt to a V6. Just a thought. :thumbsup: