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Tuddi
03-31-2009, 11:47 PM
Are there some online examples you guys have come across, involving conversions of A-bodies from FWD to RWD, with a V8 + automatic tranny installed?

This weekend I am leaving my Bluesmobile (the sedan) at the police workshop, where a new (refurbished) carb will be installed in it, and the chief of the workshop will do his best to make it more economical (get more than 7.5 mpg). That guy is an owner of a Celebrity himself, and was trained in the GM Factories in Mexico 20+years ago... and knows everything there is to know about those cars, so I hope to see the car do much better afterwards.

If not, then I am open to the idea of dropping in some V8, which would JUSTIFY the mileage I have now.... but it would probably be more economical.

Any links would be highly appreciated.

Techfizzle
04-01-2009, 03:12 AM
tudi i feel your pain, carbs are a pain in the ass to work on and get terrible gas mileage.
putting in a v8 would be alot of work and would require a great deal of metal cutting, you would have to fab some new frame supports, as i doubt that the stock subframe could take the full onset weight of a v8, it would also make the front end very heavy, making your rear fishtail and hydroplane.
your best bet would be to buy a computer, EFI head, fuel pump, etc and convert it to fuel injection

Tuddi
04-01-2009, 05:26 AM
Wrong. Carbs are simple, logical and easy to work on. I've fixed ... well... I don't know the exact number, but it's well beyond 20 carbs in the past 30 years... and the problems are always (without exemptions) based on logical reasons.

Don't forget that I am from Iceland. That's where the most insane car conversions of the world have their breeding grounds. I have seen a 2 cylinder Trabant turn into an 8 cylinder off road master-piece. Just because it's not a drag and drop, doesn't mean that the idea should be abandoned. Sometimes in life, things are difficult and hard.... and that's just normal. I am not looking for something that only takes a couple of hours to make. I know it can be done, I know it HAS been done, and I know that I can contribute to the list of those who had it done... if it comes to that.

I have personally changed a few cars from being "stock" to being "heavily modified".... according to general standards.... even though I have only thought of my works being "moderate" modifications.

The Dark Side of Will
04-01-2009, 11:52 AM
Probably the easiest way to have a rwd V8 A-body is to buy a Chevelle.

Although if you take the most general interpretation, a Dodge Dart or Plymouth Barracuda would work also.

If carbs are so easy, why's your car getting 7.5 mpg?

dcjredline
04-01-2009, 12:40 PM
If I remember right his carb isnt even the right carb for the vehicle. That could make a huge difference. Personally I dont like carbs but I never learned about them so that is ignorance not hatred.

LordDurock
04-01-2009, 01:29 PM
ware was that link that mickstain vr posted about that tri chraged eruo sport

Tuddi
04-01-2009, 04:38 PM
Probably the easiest way to have a rwd V8 A-body is to buy a Chevelle.

Although if you take the most general interpretation, a Dodge Dart or Plymouth Barracuda would work also.

If carbs are so easy, why's your car getting 7.5 mpg?

When I bought the car, it had a Toyota 4 banger carb on it... leaving it thirsty all the time, and I couldn't pass cars on the highway, since the carb would run dry before passing the cars I wanted to pass.

So I bought a refurbished carb... a Rochester Varajet II (the right brand and model, but not the right year). It doesn't have an electric mixture solenoid as it should. Then there are all the other factors that no doubt influence the consumption. The car was a police cruiser, maintenance was .... well... probably non existing for the most part... sensors on the engine have been either removed or disconnected, around 30% of the cables coming from the computer, are cut.... so there are many possibilities for explaining why it's as thirsty as it is. ... and the engine is bored 0.20 over the standard.

It's powerful and reacts instantly. Starts at the first turn of the key when cold... so that's good... but of course it bothers the private economy when it consumes DOUBLE the amount of gas that a Cadillac Escalade consumes. I look forward to see what the mechanic at the police workshop can do to it.

The Mad Hatter
04-01-2009, 11:14 PM
ware was that link that mickstain vr posted about that tri chraged eruo sport

YOU must be thinking of Project Overblown
http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/rapscallion_83/cfold1L.jpg

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-02-2009, 03:14 AM
Bluesmobile...more economical (get more than 7.5 mpg)


If it in mechanically good shape....then timing, timing, & timing.

1. Compression Check...

2. Check Cam Lift...are they still coming up high enough?

3. Timing, Timing, & Timing...if you ignition system is not firing on time, fuel economy goes down.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-02-2009, 03:19 AM
Toyota 4 banger carb on it...

If this vehicle has an O2 port on exhaust header's pipe, one can install an O2 sensor and see exactly what fuel/air mixture is...fyi.

Tuddi
04-02-2009, 02:43 PM
There is an O2 sensor on it (if it works or not is unknown though). It was not connected when I got the car, but I found the wire for it (melted and shorting to the exhaust manifold), connected it... and detected no change in any way or form.

How would I go on about reading from the O2 sensor (assuming it's in a working condition)?

The Dark Side of Will
04-02-2009, 03:31 PM
What year is your car and what system is it supposed to have? Electronic carb? TBI? 4 cylinder?

If it's that badly hacked apart, then you might do well to find a car like yours in a junk yard and snag the harness, ECM and other components from that car to rebuild the system on yours.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-02-2009, 04:42 PM
There is an O2 sensor on it (if it works or not is unknown though).

Comments:

1. Lockup Torque Converter - If your vehicle has one, but it is not working, you will take a loss in fuel mileage when driving faster than say 33 mph.

2. O2-Carb-Computer - I assume your vehicle came with this setup when new, and has been "re-engineered" since vehicle was new. Consequently, your fuel-air is most likely not right, and your timing is all messed up.

Hooking up an O2 sensor will do nothing for your fuel mileage (unless OEM setup was put back in working order). And this O2 sensor on your vehicle is dead (not working, and will never work again).

But, with a working 02 sensor, one can tell where your fuel mixture is via using high-impedance voltmeter.

Based upon your engine size, there is a way to determine what size/type of manual carburetor this engine needs, along with size of jets needed.

For timing, there should be a knock sensor on this engine.....but it would cost too much to put an ignition system on it that could max out your timing for best performance. Your distributor may have come off of some other vehicle, as in a Cadillac as I recall.

Hence, your current carburetor and timing-setup is most likely what's affecting your fuel economy, if your motor is mechanically fit (decent compression in all cylinders, and cam lift OK).

Tuddi
04-02-2009, 05:17 PM
The car is 1985, 2.8 6cyl, vin X (2bbl carbed) with a puter... but unknown if it is working as it should.

TCC solenoid died, and would lock up in 3rd (125c tranny) and be almost impossible to get the car moving again after it would stall in traffic. Finally disconnected the TCC and was over that problem (no change in fuel economy from before the TCC went bad and after I disconnected it).

The question of the Cadillac distributor has been solved: The car was made in Mexico, and there it was made with those distributors originally, so it's not an aftermarket change. Also the question about the "Adjust timing/Normal operation unit on the passenger side of the firewall has been solved. This is a unit made specifically for the cars bought to Peru in that period. It is intended for use when the car is in high altitudes. Then the switch is flipped, the car adjusts the engine for the thinner air (less oxygen) and will regain it's power-loss (I should have tried that when I went on the Andean trip... the car behaved like a sleepy donkey at altitudes between 11.500 and 17.500 ft.

I got that information from the head of the police workshop (where most national police cars are fixed). He was sent to Mexico in the 80's, to learn everything there was to learn about these cars, he drives one himself, and bought 10 decommissioned ex-police A-bodies years back, only to chop them up for spareparts (and sold those).

He has rebuilt a carb for the car, and will install it, hook it up with the computer and check on whatever else there is needed to be done so that the car will work properly, and give better economy.

I'll be leaving the car with him tomorrow morning, picking it up after the weekend.

cutlassburnin
04-02-2009, 08:27 PM
That v8 vr is just sick! But at what point is it no longer a true a-body and more a stretched and sub-framed monster?

Prospeeder
04-02-2009, 08:35 PM
7.5 mpg in a V6 abody is rediculous, you MUST have somthing else wrong, definatly check it over, it has new plugs, AND wires and cap and rotor? The carb does have adjustable mixture screw im sure, especially if its not OEM, and if someone messed with that, it will use gas like crazy! What about odd things like the brakes dragging? Bad wheel bearings? ect.....

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-02-2009, 09:19 PM
1985, 2.8 6cyl, vin X (2bbl carbed) with a puter.


The Puter needs O2 Sensor to work correctly.....but, the function of Puter is to control 2 bbl carb, which has to have "Mixture Control Solenoid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obeiD_-gWLc&feature=player_embedded)" in it.




. but unknown if it is working as it should....TCC solenoid died


From your discussions....your vehicle's Puter system is not working...O2 sensor will have to be hooked up when this carb is installed.



would lock up in 3rd (125c tranny)

In town, lockup is not needed, but on highway, it makes a difference.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-02-2009, 09:34 PM
1985, 2.8 6cyl, vin X (2bbl carbed) with a puter
....TCC solenoid died, and would lock up in 3rd (125c tranny)...

On US vehicles, the computer engages TCC.....so your puter was working then for TCC Solenoid circuit.

Tuddi
04-02-2009, 09:59 PM
The carb does have adjustable mixture screw im sure, especially if its not OEM, and if someone messed with that, it will use gas like crazy!

You are not going to try and convince me that some handy Peruvian who BROKE the aluminum around the manual mixture screw (in order to get to it) was doing something wrong? Nah... you couldn't be!

Yes, I am serious. The carb body has been broken, the mixture screw, which I think is with a triangular head originally, has had a normal screw welded on top of the original one.... and this is a screw that should NEVER be changed from the factory settings. This is an issue I am very well aware of... and to make the joke complete: My other car ALSO has the same vandalism on the screw... but that one is running quite fine.

WHY the &/%#&#$% some idiot(s) thought this to be the way to do things, is beyond my scope of thinking. Very unlikely that it was the same person involved in vandalizing both carbs.... so this should be taken as a sign of how "well" "educated" the mechanics here are.

Bearings and brake system is flawless... no dragging at all.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
04-02-2009, 10:40 PM
WHY the &/%#&#$% some idiot(s) thought this to be the way to do things, is beyond my scope of thinking.


Cause, they weren't trained in GM Tech Schools, and they were doing it the old fashion way (http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/howto/45638/index.html) for previous generation of carburetor engines.

Hint: You can't teach an Old Dog new tricks....

Tuddi
04-02-2009, 11:26 PM
Hint: You can't teach an Old Dog new tricks....

... err... yes. Pull out a pistol, point it at it's head, say: "You're dead" and pull the trigger.

Dog stay's dead.

A trick that works... even for old dogs.