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Whatshislips
01-21-2008, 12:48 AM
What is the easiest way to replace an oil pump in a 1985 celebrity 2.8 v6 ? raise engine or maybe just pull the engine out? I dunno...
I have to replace the the timing chain, that is the primary issue...... thanks, W H Lips

86euro
01-21-2008, 01:17 AM
You will already have everything off the front of the motor to do the timing chain, so all that would be left is remove the starter, support the motor from above, remove the lower engine mount and bracket, and then unbolt the oil pan. The oil pump will be right there.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
01-22-2008, 04:02 AM
What is the easiest way to replace an oil pump in a 1985 celebrity 2.8 v6 ?

Uh...take a sheet metal nibbler, cut out pan, replace pump, and then weld sheet metal back onto pan:lol:

As one point of reference (on my 88 Beretta), I had to remove starter, oil-filter housing, unbolt pan, and then wiggled it out. I was cheap, and re-used gasket. But, it appears you have to deal with motor mount.

I replaced just the OIL PUMP, and reused the screen-tube; make sure the vertical elevation of bottom part of screen is at same position. Once it was in same position, the tube was tack-welded to oil pump's housing.

Put a STOCK PUMP back into it...imho...otherwise, you will have higher fuel burn. If a stock pump is not good enough, there is a serious bearing problem.

PS: "Robocop525 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVzDhsCyI0M)"

86euro
01-23-2008, 12:49 AM
The new pump should come with instructions to get the pickup tube hight right. My melling pump came with a template to cut out part of the baffle in the oil pan, not sure why. The '86 pan already had the right shaped baffle, your '85 may not.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
01-23-2008, 02:17 AM
new pump should come with instructions to get the pickup tube hight right.

I got plain pump...no pickup tube...had to pull out OEM pickup tube...and insert in new pump.

Local auto-retailers didn't have in stock new ones complete...

I used boards, and set base of pump up higher and level so screen bottom was just touching table...I have no idea what OEM specs were...but it worked for me.

86euro
01-23-2008, 03:26 AM
I got plain pump...no pickup tube...had to pull out OEM pickup tube...and insert in new pump.

Local auto-retailers didn't have in stock new ones complete...

I used boards, and set base of pump up higher and level so screen bottom was just touching table...I have no idea what OEM specs were...but it worked for me.

Mine was just the pump too. It came with a diagram and measurements to set the pickup tube the right distance from the bottom of the oil pan.

BTW, I went ahead and installed a high-volume pump even though some people say not to. The motor has over 100K on it, so I figured it wouldn't hurt. The pan is fairly large for the size of the motor and the internals of the block are very clean, so I'm not worried about a drain-back issue or pumping too much oil out of the pan.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
01-23-2008, 03:55 AM
...installed a high-volume pump...

For off-road usage...whatever...

For on-road usage:

1. Higher Fuel Consumption, especially in colder environments...

2. Not needed, unless there is a known bearing issue. I would have run some oil pressure tests, and considered other factors before using a high volume pump.

From a poster ( betterthanyou ) at 60DegreeV6.com (http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=339888&postcount=12):

At idle if you have 7 to 10 PSI your fine At 2000 PSI 20 to 30 is still golden and 45 PSI is all you need at 5000. While the pressures you quoted are fine going any higher is simply wasting power and putting heat into the oil which are 2 things you don't want to be doing.

Engines don't need enormous amounts of pressure. They just need a constant non failing supply of oil. The oil wedge that sets up and keeps the journals off the bearings is set up purely by the rotation of the parts them selves and does not rely on oil pressure at all.

Things that do rely on oil pressure are the hydraulic lifters. The oil pressure in the system only needs to be adequate to force required volume of oil through the passages in the engine. The volume needs to be sufficient to compensate for the bleed off rate caused by the clearances in the motor. Hence the more clearance (wear) on the motor the more volume needed (or pressure drop occurs).....

If I had a way to do so I would put an adjustable regulator on the oil pump and keep it at roughly 10PSI per 1000RPM. But I guess I can't do that unless I score a good deal on a dry sup pump and build a pan.

From another post of his (http://60degreev6.com/forum/showpost.php?p=339936&postcount=14):

Also 5W30 and 10W30 are the exact same Viscosity at 200*F. You will only notice a pressure difference when cold. If you want you could run 0W30. Most cars these days are running 0W now in order to reduce cold operating fuel consumption because it is thinner when cold which robs less power.

86euro
01-23-2008, 04:10 AM
No bearing issues. However, I don't trust the lifters as a few were collapsed from sitting, and the last set of new lifters I installed on an '89 2.8 were just as noisy as the set I took out.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
01-24-2008, 02:54 AM
No bearing issues....lifters...

Starting up in morning at 14 °F / -10 °C, and using 5w-30w, at idle I am pumping up 60_psi on this 160,000 mile motor...if I creep the rpm upto 3300rpm, my bar graph is pegged, which is over 70_psi.

Once the motor is warmed up, some ten miles down the road, at about 2200 rpm, I'm running about 45_psi...which is higher than needed.

When I got this vehicle, I "flushed" the oil via two quick oil changes....then pulled the pan and replaced the oil pump since oil pressure was not high enough for me. I also inspected two bearings (Rod/Main), and could see they were still in good shape.

Usually, when you do several oil changes over short period of time, the lifters will be "cleaned."

Hence, unless you know the oil pressure is low, due to bearings....there is no need to replace oil pump with high volume pump...checking a few bearings is simple to do.

jhnharvy773
07-19-2011, 01:10 AM
What is the easiest way to replace an oil pump gaskets (http://www.jcwhitney.com/oil-pump-gaskets/c28273j1s17.jcwx) in a 1985 celebrity 2.8 v6 ? raise engine or maybe just pull the engine out? I dunno...
I have to replace the the timing chain, that is the primary issue...... thanks, W H Lips

when trying to prime my oil pump on my freshly built h22, i hear a metal on metal grinding noise coming from the crank side. i am scared to keep turning it over cause the noise is freaking me out.

I put oil in the hex access hole until it was coming out. what else can i do to get pressure or atleast get enough oil to stop the grinding? The oil pump is brand new as is every internal peice of the motor.

the dizzy, ecu and back up fuse are all disconnected btw.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
07-19-2011, 01:58 AM
i hear a metal on metal grinding noise... am scared to keep turning it over

Did you shim the starter?

turbokinetic
07-19-2011, 12:17 PM
What is the easiest way to replace an oil pump in a 1985 celebrity 2.8 v6 ? raise engine or maybe just pull the engine out? I dunno...
I have to replace the the timing chain, that is the primary issue...... thanks, W H Lips

-Remove starter
-Remove belt(s)
-Remove nuts from right-side motor mount (under the oilpan)
-Place wood against pan and jack up the engine on the right side.
-Remove bracket that supports engine mount. It has 2 bolts on engine's right side, facing forward; and at least 2 on the other side, one of them facing sideways . You may have to remove / loosen compressor bracket.
-Place wood block between crankshaft pulley and car's frame. Remove jack and wood under oilpan.
-Oil pan can now be removed.

Since you're already doing the timing chain, you must have the front brackets off already!

As for the HV oilpump, I hear some negative comments but mostly they are theoretical things that in the real world, don't matter. I have used them many times without any noticable ill effects. It does take more power to turn it, but compared to the engine's HP it is very very small increase. Use science and common sense. The original oilpump uses just a HP or two at max engine speed. You increase the oilpump power use by 20%. That is 0.4 HP extra used, at redline. Less used under normal low RPM situations. Not significant in my mind.

The 60° V6 engines have a history of piston skirt wear and piston slap. This is minimized by extra lubrication. With increased oil flow, more oil is "thrown off" by the crankshaft and conn rod bearings. The oil throwoff is what lubes the pistons. So by increasing oil flow, you are directly increasing piston lube and reinforcing a known weak point of the early 60° V6 engines.

Sincerely,
David

Just make sure to follow the instructions about modifying the pan baffle and setting the oil pickup position!