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Jr's3800
01-17-2011, 01:34 AM
Been 2.5 years with the 3800 Series III L26...

Comp Cam NA Performance Cam
LS6 Valve Springs
Comp Valve keepers
Comp Retainers
Ported Lower intake
Magnaflow HF Cat
Magnaflow Muffler
GX3 4T60E
1997 OBD2 PCM
On and on bla bla bla...

After 2.5 years the engine still runs great and burns no oil at all.. Starts the first time every time ... I have towed as much as 4500 Lbs a short distance... Picked up motors and transmissions... Concrete.... Its still super practical and still turns a few heads when they don't expext the Minivan...

The problem is that the Trans is taking a crap... The Forward/3rd Roller Sprag is taking a dump and not holding... Trans has done 25,000 miles of abuse... After much research it turns out that the failure is common and the 3rd roller sprag should be replaced during a rebuild... Book says inspect, reuse if ok... Bla bla bla... I guess you learn by doing...

so my next step will happen very soon... I have a 1997 4T60E SRTA GM Trans... I am going to pull the guts out of it and install a 4T65E ring gear and Diff.. and reassemble... I am going to the 3.05 Diff as opposed to the 3.33 I currently have... The 3.33 was fun, but I think the torque produced by the cam is more than enough to turn the 3.05 gears and get some more MPG's as well...

As well due to the cam and the weight of the van the 1900 stall converter is stalling a little to high for my liking.. Stalling at 3000... and running through the gears too quick with the 3.33 gears... I am going to use a 1450 stall converter as it will easily stall past 2000-2300.... My 2.84 Bonneville with an old LN3 3800 stalls at 2000 Rpms... Just looking to make the van super drivable as it does get driven a lot...


Thats just the short Update for now...lol

Duke George V
01-17-2011, 05:17 PM
Did you use higher ratio rocker arms, or did you feel the cam was enough?

Jr's3800
01-17-2011, 06:45 PM
Still have the 1.6 stock rockers... The Valve Lift for the cam is .517 Intake and .498 Exhaust, so the cam is a bit lumpy... when you hot start it you know it has a cam...LOL... The cam is a Performance cam, it in my opinion is a little more than I would want in a street vehicle... But being that its a Comp Cam Extreme Energy cam it does have good useable torque like any other 3800 and the cam specs show the cam is good from 1000-5500 Rpms...

I have the van set up to do a 6100 Rpm shift, this is not really good for the trans pump... So I will change that to force the shift at 5900 or so with the 3.05 gear set... This should get me a 48-50 Mph 1-2 and a 90-93 Mph 2-3... As well around town and on the road I should see better MPG's... I am thinking 18-19 city and 25-27 Hwy...


Like I have said in the past... This van has become so practical it not even funny now... Love the extra room... Love the fact that I can tow... Go get a fridge or a washer if needed.... Go pick up Lawn and garden junk... Just to user friendly... And the looks I get when people get near me trying to figure out where that deep exhaust note is coming from... LMAO.... I love seeing peoples Jaws hit the ground when I hit the button on the fob for the sliding door... They are always like WTF they had that back then?

Somewhere along the line I am going to repin the PCM connector and use a 98-99 PCM in it... The 98-99 PCM is quicker and better than the 97 PCM's I have used.. There are more N/A Tunes out there for the 98-99 PCM's and the Tuner I am using( DHP ).. Should be interesting..

SCREECH
01-18-2011, 05:09 AM
I love seeing peoples Jaws hit the ground when I hit the button on the fob for the sliding door... They are always like WTF they had that back then?
YES...hahaha! I often find people are surprised when they learn about these vans from the '90s having the power door. Thankfully my new van has the AU0 remote keyless entry, so I'll have to snag a fob for it. I always thought it'd be a great feature for loading stuff when your arms are full. I carry a large toolbag for work, so just hitting the fob and not having to fumble with opening a door or trunk before setting the bag down really works for me.

Here's another thought I had, along the lines of power doors...how bout incorporating the power hatch system found on some late-model Chryslers like the Pacifica? I don't know if that's just done with special shocks and a release solenoid or what, but I want to look into that more. THAT would be useful...as long as you don't open it when there's an obstruction behind/above the hatch. :o

Jr's3800
01-18-2011, 12:45 PM
That power rear hatch would be cool to do... I would love to see that...

For the Remote you want ABO0203T Lectron 10286022 Canada 218 101 229

I need to get a couple of new ones myself...

Duke George V
02-07-2011, 02:45 AM
Hey, I wanted to ask you about the rocker arms. How long does it take to install them? I imagine it's pretty much a pain in the ass to do the rear bank.

Jr's3800
02-07-2011, 02:58 AM
I can't remember what exactly was in the way to do the rear valve cover gasket... I know I was having a bad day as 2 of the bolts snapped off when I went to remove them.... Took me a little while to get the bolts out.. Good thing they were oil soaked too...

I did the rockers when I had the Lower intake off to do the gaskets... I did some port work on the lower intake while I was there... And installed the rockers before I put anything back on... The 1.8 rockers give you a lift of roughly .460, but this does not change the duration, just simply bumps the valves further open... And you have to install them properly, not hard to do really... Have to be really careful with the rear side as its hard to see whats going on back there...


On my little update... I am having a hard time telling what really wrong with the trans.. It almost feels as if the Torque converter may be the issue.. I did a lot of research into the Converters GM used... Its strange that 96-97 Converter seem to be particular to 96-97 as they use a Carbon Cluth... The van was updated to the 1997 Bonneville PCM with a 100% Bonneville tune... The older converters could not handle the odd TCC Lock strategy... So we might have cooked the converter clutch...

But thats ok... I have swapped out the diff in my SRTA trans to a 3.06 as opposed to the 3.33 I currently have.. and the Torque converter with the SRTA trans is a Carbon Clutch converter... So this will function with the 97 Tune as well as the 98 Bonneville tune as the van will be upgraded to a 98 PCM.. Lesson learned I guess.....

Duke George V
02-14-2011, 01:09 AM
One more question about the rockers. I know they will provide more power and therefore better performance. What about fuel economy? Better, worse, unchanged?

Jr's3800
02-14-2011, 01:12 AM
The rockers did no worse for fuel... I was still pulling 28 Mpg on the road...

SexySilhouette
02-22-2011, 12:09 AM
YES...hahaha! I often find people are surprised when they learn about these vans from the '90s having the power door. Thankfully my new van has the AU0 remote keyless entry, so I'll have to snag a fob for it. I always thought it'd be a great feature for loading stuff when your arms are full. I carry a large toolbag for work, so just hitting the fob and not having to fumble with opening a door or trunk before setting the bag down really works for me.

Here's another thought I had, along the lines of power doors...how bout incorporating the power hatch system found on some late-model Chryslers like the Pacifica? I don't know if that's just done with special shocks and a release solenoid or what, but I want to look into that more. THAT would be useful...as long as you don't open it when there's an obstruction behind/above the hatch. :o

I've been thinking about this. My 2001 Grand Caravan had it.

I've also been looking at power side window openers from a Mercury Villager...

Jr's3800
02-26-2011, 01:08 PM
Time for a small update...

Got the trans out... Yanked the torque converter and believe that it was the stator/bearing in the Torque Converter that failed... When we went to dump the fluid out of the Converter we got metal bits... I am pretty sure this has been pushed into the trans so no matter what the case it will have to be rebuilt...

But I have the SRTA Trans attached to the engine and everything set back down on the Sub Frame with a new front Trans mount as well... The Comp Cam Lifters went in, along with the aluminum lower intake gaskets and Ported front and rear manifolds... While we had it all apart we decided to replace the master cylinder too, what a massive PITA... Slowly coming back together...

Duke George V
06-18-2011, 01:50 AM
Gonna bring this back with another question. What sort of rewiring did you have to do, if any?

Jr's3800
06-18-2011, 12:08 PM
Thats an interesting question... and that will depend on what you want to do.. at one point we had the new motor running on the stock PCM... But we used an L36 EPROM with the VATS( security ) Codes and Flags turned of so the PCM would not look for the security pulse..( The EPROM was a 1995 Bonneville EPROM)... To do this we extended the EGR wires due to the location of the EGR on the new Motor, made some length changes to the MAF, IAT, TPS and IAC wires to get them where we wanted... Then we had to add to a wire for the 2nd knock sensor... On this PCM its simple, you simply splice into the existing wire.. The PCM looks for a different voltage value due to having 2 sensors on the same circuit...

I actually ran a couple thousand miles this way... With no issues... Fired right up every time...

Later My Buddy installed the 97 PCM... The 97 Connector had to be wired into the the 95 harness... He had to add the Map circuit wiring, and had to go to a 2 channel knock sensor set up...

If this van had the battery on the passenger side, I could have easily set this up like a Bonneville with the PCM under the hood and the wiring harness to match...

On my 95 Bonneville( I seem to get side tracked a lot ) I am still planning on the 98/99 PCM and Harness... I got a chunk of the harness for the inside as well.. so I should be able to splice in for everything I need for the inside of the car... The 98/99 PCM is better in terms of tuning as opposed to the 97 PCM.. The van will stay a 97 PCM..

It just depends on what you really want to do...

Duke George V
06-18-2011, 06:18 PM
That was a lot simpler than I was expecting. I also didn't know that the L36 was available in '95. Thanks.

Jr's3800
06-18-2011, 06:55 PM
Yeah the L36 was used in the Pontiac Bonneville, Olds 88/98, and Buick Park avenue for the 95 Model year... The W Bodies did not see them until 97...

My 95 Bonneville is actually a 94 Production... Built 12/14/94 and delivered 12/21/94 iirc...

so it will all just depend on what you would like... There are things you have to do to swap to a Series II/III... The PS pump is in a different location, in my case I used the 97 GP Power steering lines... I adapted to the 00+ Bonneville alternator and tensioner.. Had to use a W body oil filter adapter... also used a GP passenger front mount( currently running a poly W body mount 1 inch shorter )...

The front motor mount bracket bolts directly to the block, the ac compressor bracket you have will fit, but you will have to shave a bit off to clear the dip stick tube...

You will be able to use your original trans 100%...

There is an ear on the newer motor thats not there on the older motor that had to be ground off to accept the trans Brackets...

A lot will work with most all of the parts you already have... The downpipe will have to be dealt with as they are larger for the series II... and a few other things that will seem to nickle and dime you to death...LMAO


also forgot I had issues with the Throttle cable hitting the master cylinder... at first I cut the Throttle cable bracket down a hair and ground a little off the end of the master cylinder... Later I added a small throttle body spacer, and that poly front mount to keep the motor from jerking back... So far so good... It was all and still is a learning process...lol

turbokinetic
06-18-2011, 08:46 PM
Don, how's the new trans working (feel, milage, power etc.) with the taller gearing?
Thanks,
David

Jr's3800
06-20-2011, 06:29 PM
New Trans is great and shifts really tight.... I installed the 3.06 gears... and used the HV3 Upper intake insert...

On the HV3, While this may be good with a ZZP cam, or a a stock cam... This doesn't seem to be the case with my Comp Cam NA Performance Cam... Factor in almost 4000 Lbs to move.... I need every bit of grunt I can get... However, the top end is fun... 4500 Rpms on up is insane for a 4000 Lb vehicle... Gets from 65 to 90 in a hurry... But for all intent purposes I am not running around at 4500 Rpms, nor am I doing 90 mph all of the time... so for this application the HV3 is not a great thing in my eyes... I think the HV3 will find its new home in my 95 Bonneville along with the ZZP GT1 Cam that will be installed int he future...

I am thinking of going back to the 3.33 gears.... But I need to test the water with the 1897 Stall( Every 1897 stall I have had has always stalled at 2100-2200 ) and the 3.06 gears along with the stock intake runners designed for low end and midrange torque... Will have to see what this gains for me...

as for MPG's I have been doing 20 mostly city...

The minor changes are #2 on my list...

#1 is fixing the Ac in the van so I can drive it more... I have the new AC Delco lines for the compressor, new drier and an automatically adjusting orifice tube filter... I am going to buy a new ( not a reman ) HD6 AC Compressor... Had enough of the remans...

after that will come the rest...lol

turbokinetic
06-25-2011, 03:37 AM
Awesome the transmission is working well!

You aren't the only one who is sick and tired of reman compressors! I went round and round with them and swore never again. It's been plenty hot this year. A/C is important!

Did the HV3 insert affect the sound of the engine? Interesting it affected torque that much.

Jr's3800
06-25-2011, 11:49 AM
Yep the trans is doing good...

The HV3 is simply a short runner set up... Great for top end power... supposedly it does not really effect Low end so it claims.. But you don't gain any either... But I still think my issue is the cam and the design of the cam...

The cam is good from 1000-5500 Rpms... The torque is flat and strong in this range... All of the calculators I have played with show the torque peak at roughly 3500 Rpms, but even then its a pretty flat curve...

But I do still feel that the cam was designed around the stock long runner set up... with stock runners it pulled pretty good right to the shift... with the HV3 at the top you can tell there is more there... I am just trying to find that happy balance for daily driving...

It really is nice to have a little bit under the hood of a Trans Sport...

Jr's3800
07-06-2011, 11:12 PM
Time for another update.... so far I have the new Torque converter sitting here( yes a stock 1897 Stall ).... New AC Compressor with the variable orifice tube filter... New Drier... New AC compressor lines... Had an issue with the Moog front coil springs and figured out how to cure the issue, so those stiffer Moogs will go back on... New Moog rear springs ordered and on their way, should be here tomorrow... New sway bar to lower control arm bushings ordered( Poly-Energy Suspension )....


The ZZP HV3 insert will come off the van, and the stock series II runners will go back on...

I have already altered the tune, using mostly 98 Bonneville tables... so far the van is better all around.. I am running on stock timing tables for the moment... I'll be happy to have a more sporty ride with cold AC... LOL

Jr's3800
02-10-2012, 05:06 PM
Time for an update again... Got a minor video of the van before I change it... Yep thats right still haven't gotten to it... at current the 1420 stall is too low of a stall... Due to the cam abd the like this engine needs to be able to get into the revs a tad to shine... The low stall just holds it back... The HV3 is good on the top end, but I don't feel its great for the low end, or this cam.... Please forgive the quality of the Vid, it was done with my LG phone.. Van is full of fuel and 100% street trim with all the seats in it...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Jr3800/th_TransSportrun.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Jr3800/?action=view&current=TransSportrun.mp4)\


also forgot.... Its averaging 20-21 in city driving...

Duke George V
02-10-2012, 05:30 PM
Fuck yes. That sounds awesome.

Jr's3800
02-12-2012, 01:49 PM
Its got a little something to it.... But its not right yet...LOL

Jr's3800
02-24-2012, 10:39 PM
Got the torque converter replaced... What a PITA... Much better with the 1897 stall, feels a lot like a Bonneville in terms of driveability... Next on the list change out the Valve Spring Retainers to Manley LSx retainers..... Blarg....lol

Duke George V
02-25-2012, 06:39 AM
What was the stall before? The first post mentions something like 3000. That's not stock though, right?

Jr's3800
02-25-2012, 10:37 PM
I had the wrong Stall.... The trans was originally a 2.84 with a 1420 stall... I swapped in a 3.06 Diff... Didn't really care about the torque converter at the time.... I soon figured out that I should have cared... So I drove the van almost 1 year on the 1420 stall, it didn't do bad, It just lacked that car like performance...

Bonnevilles that had a 3.06 gear ratio or that were supercharged had a more performance minded stall... 1897 stall is what it was called, no idea why.... Just about every 3800 on earth will stall that converter at 2000-2100.... Make more power and you can stall higher.. I can a decent bit higher than the rating... But the extra stall allows the engine to get into its torque curve quicker if that makes sense... With the cam iirc I am at a torque peak of 4300 or so.... But its a pretty flat curve nice and strong from 2500 to 4500... This is where its making the mass of its torque... So allowing it to jump into the torque curve make for better performance...

Your van with the 3.06 Trans in your van has the 1897 Stall... The L27 peaks at 3200 Rpms at a so called GM rating of 225 Ft Lbs( I believe its a bit higher )..... But due to the nature of the series I 200 Ft Lbs is there just above idle... One of the reasons the van is so driveable, can tow and still feels good while hauling around a full load...

a 3000 stall would kill me and may even overheat the trans to the point of it burning up... Im my opinion there is no reason for a 3000 Stall in a daily driver...

My can is a bit lumpy, and sure sounds like it when you hot start it... Its a Comp Cam NA performance cam... I really should not have used this cam, but for the price NIB I could not pass it up... Another reason I choose the cam was that even tho it was a bit lumpy it still made good strong low end torque.... Its their Extreme Energy Cam Stage 2 I guess you could call it... The other cam was a step above the stock cam, this one is 2 steps above..

The 1420 was just too low of a stall for the cam and the weight of the van..