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1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-10-2015, 01:36 AM
Good evening folks, new thread about building back up one of gms rarest 80's cars. Her name is Wednesday Addams. A little history on her goes like this; she was converted into a VR on Monday June 15, 1987, so I believe she was built the Wednesday before. Her original owners took her home to live in N.Y. for some time then took her with them when they moved to Atlanta, ga. She was used as the family truckster until the family all decided to buy imports. At that time, the family parked her under a pine tree and abandoned her! So she sat for 5 lonely years without so much as a crank over.
Then I found her on the internet without much hope but called anyway. After a couple months negotiating, I hopped a greyhound bus in Ocala, Fl and went to see this car. As expected, she was a diamond in a turd. So we did an oil change, changed the serp belt, and aired up the tires. Next thing I know, I'm driving a piece of automotive history home! Wednesday made it with no problems :-} Once home I found her to be amazingly rust free and only 193,xxx on her. Then I let her sit for a year or so with rare drives from time to time.
After getting out of jail, I decided to bring Wednesday back into use. Besides typical maintenance, she was a soldier. Drove her for 20k before smoking the trans (blew a axle seal and continued driving).
From there she sat again for 2 years. Then, in January, I decided to replace the trans and get her ready for the Daytona Turkey run. Well one thing turned to another and, while we missed the car show, the whole engine bay is basically new except the motor and steering rack. Amount of debt racked up so far $2500!!!
Future plans include new paint, interior, tint, graphics, hearse appearance package, drivetrain upgrades, and more!
Will post pics when I figure out photobucket and uploading with the cell phone.


Aussenseiter

turbokinetic
05-10-2015, 02:01 AM
Glad you're starting a build thread! Hope the CV axle debacle is solved soon for you.
Sincerely,
David

86euro
05-10-2015, 01:02 PM
Hearse appearance package?

Can't wait to see pictures!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-10-2015, 03:54 PM
thanks for the kind words GuyS. came up with an interesting idea worth trying for removing the CV axle, going to try a pickle fork ball joint separator.
the idea for the hearse appearance package is because the car looks so long an low with the VR kit. Basically, after it's tinted, I'm gonna have decals cut so it like landau bars on the sides and a bow tie and wreath on the back.

Tyson
05-11-2015, 06:10 PM
Hearse appearance package? Can't wait to see pictures!
Haha, that's what I was thinking too! Sounds like a fun Build. I will be watching for updates.

Duke George V
05-12-2015, 03:21 AM
'87? Does it have the fancy interior? If so, would you mind posting pictures please? I would like to see the back seat specifically.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-12-2015, 01:50 PM
Why, yes, George, it does the upgraded interior. More than happy to post pics if I could figure out how to get the links from photobucket to our phone to this site.
Please don't expect to see much from the interior. When it was being detailed for the 2012 Daytona Turkey Rod Run, the rear seat sort of disintegrated! So much fun driving to a car show with a sopping wet back seat. Good thing I was solo then.....

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-16-2015, 12:38 AM
Good evening y'all, this update is long so make sure ya got some time, a comfy seat, and a beverage of your choice....
Here we go:
I have driven the vr!! But it is far from drivable, sadly. It started like this....
Went to Advance and got a pickle fork set. Tried for several hours using it with no luck. Had my darling assistant (wifey) call around for a specific axle puller. As luck would have it, AutoZone had one for a princely deposit fee of $68! Normally I wouldn't gripe, but advance never charges me a dime. Anyhoo, got it to the lair and of course it didn't fit exactly. With nothing to lose, I went at it pretty hard and finally the tiny axle was out. Reassembly was pretty straight forward with lowering each side of the subframe to line up the ball joints. Oh, and MJ (wife) got to help with installing the new axles! So proud of her!
Then the moment of truth had arrived. And as expected, Wednesday refused to start. Unplugged the map sensor and she was fine. Put her in reverse and she moved on her own but no brakes. Eased her to dads (2miles away) and then to a shop to tighten the axle nuts. The whole time the front end made horrible noises. Crunching popping etc. Oh and smoking, can't forget smoking. I think it's oil and fluids on the rotors. And still no brakes.
Does this seem like the trip was all bad? Well, there was positive points as well. First off the steering is freaking AWESOME! !!!!! The new pump and lines are so up to par.... <drooling >. The whole thing feels dam light! I can't wait to shake the bugs the bugs out and really push it. If I had to compare the steering on the vr, I'd say it's easily in the league of my old 81 x11 with manual steering (r.i.p.)
To close out this novel, Wednesday is back in the lair, soon to be joined by mommas saturn. Might be a couple weeks before we get back to the vr but we'll update as progress occurs.


AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
05-16-2015, 03:15 AM
Glad you got her up and running again!

That's scary about the front end crunching and popping. Could the brakes be binding up and dragging, causing the smoke? I have seen the rubber hoses swell internally and close up like an asthmatic trachea. There may be a little fluid going to the brakes (not enough to work well) but it stays trapped there and then the brakes burn up.

Sure wish you'd post some pictures! The VR is one of the rarest A-cars, especially since the Celebrity has been out of production for so long.

Sincerely,
David

Century7667
05-16-2015, 02:36 PM
Good evening y'all, this update is long so make sure ya got some time, a comfy seat, and a beverage of your choice....
Here we go:
I have driven the vr!! But it is far from drivable, sadly. It started like this....
Went to Advance and got a pickle fork set. Tried for several hours using it with no luck. Had my darling assistant (wifey) call around for a specific axle puller. As luck would have it, AutoZone had one for a princely deposit fee of $68! Normally I wouldn't gripe, but advance never charges me a dime. Anyhoo, got it to the lair and of course it didn't fit exactly. With nothing to lose, I went at it pretty hard and finally the tiny axle was out. Reassembly was pretty straight forward with lowering each side of the subframe to line up the ball joints. Oh, and MJ (wife) got to help with installing the new axles! So proud of her!
Then the moment of truth had arrived. And as expected, Wednesday refused to start. Unplugged the map sensor and she was fine. Put her in reverse and she moved on her own but no brakes. Eased her to dads (2miles away) and then to a shop to tighten the axle nuts. The whole time the front end made horrible noises. Crunching popping etc. Oh and smoking, can't forget smoking. I think it's oil and fluids on the rotors. And still no brakes.
Does this seem like the trip was all bad? Well, there was positive points as well. First off the steering is freaking AWESOME! !!!!! The new pump and lines are so up to par.... <drooling >. The whole thing feels dam light! I can't wait to shake the bugs the bugs out and really push it. If I had to compare the steering on the vr, I'd say it's easily in the league of my old 81 x11 with manual steering (r.i.p.)
To close out this novel, Wednesday is back in the lair, soon to be joined by mommas saturn. Might be a couple weeks before we get back to the vr but we'll update as progress occurs.


AuSSenseiter

It's always good to have a trusty ally in the form of your very own wife. She's always got your back. My wife has assisted in a number of projects, notably:

1) Certified (by me) brake bleeder assistant
2) She's petite, so she was able to help me replaced the thermostat on the 3100 w/o pulling manifolds or exhaust pipes
3) ...and probably most impressive she assisted me in installing the 5 spd manual trans into my S10! She had the tranny by the tailstock and I manned the trans jack to stab that clutch! I couldn't have done it with our her!

Most of all she puts up with my mechanic hobby!

Ken T.

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-18-2015, 01:09 AM
Ok folks, finally got to a real computer so hopefully the pics will come through. No real updates as the car is parked again. These are just random pics from the most recent tear down/ rebuild.
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_155313.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_155313.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_155303.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_155303.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_155221.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_155221.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_155214.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_155214.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_155206.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_155206.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_145225.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_145225.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150226_153118.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150226_153118.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150226_153102.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150226_153102.jpg.html)

Drop Top Olds
05-18-2015, 01:16 AM
Nice progress. The members of this forum like pictures! :kekeke:

Keep them coming!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-19-2015, 03:16 AM
Tonight's update is a quick and simple one. Drove the vr around the yard to clear the bay for mommas saturn. Once the vr was in its new spot it was once again put on jack stands. The diagnosis was pretty simple once the wheels came off, the brand new (less than 5 miles) drivers side hub bearing failed very badly. It was so bad the axle nut had backed off to the point I was able to remove it by hand and socket! !!! Once the torx bolts were removed, the assembly literally fell into my hands in 3 pieces! !!!!! Not a happy camper but thank goodness it failed at low speed & close to home.



AuSSenseiter

Doc Salvage
05-19-2015, 09:52 AM
wow--at least there was a bit of good luck along with the bad--hope you get her going again soon : - )


Tonight's update is a quick and simple one. Drove the vr around the yard to clear the bay for mommas saturn. Once the vr was in its new spot it was once again put on jack stands. The diagnosis was pretty simple once the wheels came off, the brand new (less than 5 miles) drivers side hub bearing failed very badly. It was so bad the axle nut had backed off to the point I was able to remove it by hand and socket! !!! Once the torx bolts were removed, the assembly literally fell into my hands in 3 pieces! !!!!! Not a happy camper but thank goodness it failed at low speed & close to home.



AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
05-19-2015, 11:39 PM
Tonight's update is a quick and simple one. Drove the vr around the yard to clear the bay for mommas saturn. Once the vr was in its new spot it was once again put on jack stands. The diagnosis was pretty simple once the wheels came off, the brand new (less than 5 miles) drivers side hub bearing failed very badly. It was so bad the axle nut had backed off to the point I was able to remove it by hand and socket! !!! Once the torx bolts were removed, the assembly literally fell into my hands in 3 pieces! !!!!! Not a happy camper but thank goodness it failed at low speed & close to home.



AuSSenseiter

Wow, that's frightening that the bearing was disintegrated.

These cars depend on the CV shaft nut being tight to keep the bearing races together. If this works loose, the bearing will fail totally.

Glad to see pictures of the repair! Looks like your car has been sitting up a while, based on the dust on the underbody parts.

LOL at the exhaust clamp on the lifting chain! That's ingenuity at its best. :)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-21-2015, 01:07 AM
Today we FINALLY achieved SUCCESS! !!! Yes, there's problems that will keep it from being a daily driver but those will get taken care of in time.
But there's 87 VR back on the streets and ready to take names.
Maybe I've forgotten what it's like to drive a celebrity, but Wednesday feels stupid light now in handling & steering. Really wish for a heavier steering feedback. Also, the new tranny doesn't jump off the line like the old one did but once cruising, Wednesday is a happy child (55mph @ 1500rpm).
Oh, and I can't put into words how very nice it felt to be cradled in the 87 only restitched buckets. I could ride all day and night in them and be happy, sssoooo much better than the crappola ferd van seats that make you do the thug lean. I have a bad back so seat comfort is a very high priority.
Turbo kenetic, where we live in Florida it's very dusty and sandy so dirt builds quickly. But yes, it was taken off the road in January, 2014 and sat since then.
Glad you like the exhaust clamps! They work well and are cheap. I also use them to compress the springs on the suspension...... red necking at its finest.


AuSSenseiter

Keiths1976
05-21-2015, 01:12 AM
Hey 1987 black VR where are u in Florida? I'm from the east coast near west palm beach .. Be pretty cool to do a meet up :)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-21-2015, 01:21 AM
Keith, we are on the west coast in a little town called Inverness (or as the locals call it in a mess) a little sw of Ocala.
Would love to do a meet up. 😀 if not before, maybe the Daytona Turkey Rod Run? I show there in the fall with some citation friends and am working on a spring outing for next year.

AuSSenseiter

Keiths1976
05-21-2015, 02:42 AM
I know we are always in Tampa for a Busch gardens with the family would love to add me as a friend sir :) .

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-21-2015, 04:18 PM
Awesome! Right now the VR is drivable but only for short distances so Tampa would be out but if you came up this way, every 3rd Friday of the month we have a car show on the old court house square. Or in Crystal river on Saturday nights is a get together.....

Hopefully chasing the rest of the bugs out will go a little easier and less expensive but then again, Wednesday's child is still full of woe....


AuSSenseiter

Drop Top Olds
05-21-2015, 05:03 PM
Wow! your gearing must be pretty tall. My car is at 2000 rpm at 55 mph. My final drive ratio is 3.6 (I think) but in 5th gear it is lower.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-21-2015, 11:32 PM
The original tranny was a GX3 3.33/1 "performance" tranny. The new one could be anything, it's a advance auto rebuilt special. On top of that, we are rocking 225/50r17's up front. Those are balder than a newborn babies back side but still grips. When we can we will replace them with 215/55r17's to match the backs and reduce the rubbing issues. Note I said reduce, not eliminate.

On another topic, the car is running pig rich as the sensors battle each other. Can anyone recommend a decent scanner for this old system? Would like to see the data in real time on our android phone but needs to be affordable.
TIA,

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-24-2015, 02:55 PM
Today I have nothing to report as the wife and I are out of town. But heres more pics for everyone to enjoy.

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150301_104813_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150301_104813_1.jpg.html)

this pic is strange because its dated 30 april, 87. Is this the cycle time? Subframe made in april and the car was built in june?
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150301_104253.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150301_104253.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150301_104230.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150301_104230.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_181651_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_181651_1.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150227_181642_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150227_181642_1.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150225_160300_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150225_160300_1.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150225_160238_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150225_160238_1.jpg.html)

Part of the shop...
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150225_145458_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150225_145458_1.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150225_145431_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150225_145431_1.jpg.html)

An idea I'm playing with
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150220_123012_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150220_123012_1.jpg.html)

Old and busted....
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150210_104412.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150210_104412.jpg.html)

Pretty new parts (though this is the second set of axles and the wrong ones at that)
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150209_123431.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150209_123431.jpg.html)

As requested, heres some pic of the back seats
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150522_184203.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150522_184203.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150522_184138.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150522_184138.jpg.html)

a pic of me doing the final tighten down before test drive...
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150520_175708.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150520_175708.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150520_172624.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150520_172624.jpg.html)

New p\s pressure hose for an 89 ion an 87
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150414_183650_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150414_183650_1.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150323_150909_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150323_150909_1.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20150323_150819_1.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20150323_150819_1.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-24-2015, 03:01 PM
So as y'all can see, I get pretty involved in projects. Maybe not the fastest or easiest ways but I am VERY thorough.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
05-24-2015, 04:23 PM
It looks like you're doing a very thorough job on it. Like the clean and painted subframe!

New steering hoses and all going in the car says to me that you're planning to do a longterm build that will last.

Thanks for sharing the picts here we all appreciate it. This is what encourages others to do good projects.

Just to encourage you, this is my 88 Olds Ciera XC as I found it:

It is crying.....
http://68.209.87.173/88_CieraXC/AsReceived/XC_3.jpg

Totally roached....
http://68.209.87.173/88_CieraXC/AsReceived/XC_4.jpg

Engine needs help....
http://68.209.87.173/88_CieraXC/RoadTrip/Preparing_for_Trip2.jpg

After paintjob and engine repairs:

The shiny is back!!!!
http://68.209.87.173/88_CieraXC/Restoration/Repaint/Repaint(2).JPG

The roaching and funk buildup are gone!!!!
http://68.209.87.173/88_CieraXC/Restoration/Clean_Resto_04_13_10_20.JPG

Engine cleaned up, tuned up, and has T28 turbo installed......
http://68.209.87.173/88_CieraXC/Modifications/Turbo/Sys_Install/Sys_Inst_7_4.JPG

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-25-2015, 03:46 AM
Thank you for the kind words, turbokinetic. We absolutely love the VR and are planning on never selling it so everything is top of the line, name brand stuff. Definitely not the cheapest way to go (since January we've ran up a debt of around $2500!!!) but to us the car is worth it.
A funny story on the subframe, after cleaning and everything, I grabbed the closest can of paint and shot everything. Then I noticed it was a bit too red for me. Looking at the labels, it was dark walnut (stupid me never keeps anything but black paints). So what you see in the pic is the 2nd &3rd coats of respray. Oh, and all of it was shot in the rain!!

Very nice XC! Seeing your before and after pics, well, I can further see the VR once again being a classy lady with a real b!tch side.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
05-25-2015, 12:58 PM
Thank you for the kind words, turbokinetic. We absolutely love the VR and are planning on never selling it so everything is top of the line, name brand stuff. Definitely not the cheapest way to go (since January we've ran up a debt of around $2500!!!) but to us the car is worth it.
A funny story on the subframe, after cleaning and everything, I grabbed the closest can of paint and shot everything. Then I noticed it was a bit too red for me. Looking at the labels, it was dark walnut (stupid me never keeps anything but black paints). So what you see in the pic is the 2nd &3rd coats of respray. Oh, and all of it was shot in the rain!!

Very nice XC! Seeing your before and after pics, well, I can further see the VR once again being a classy lady with a real b!tch side.

AuSSenseiter

I've not had the gumption to paint any of my subframes! Probably because the only time I have to look at the bottom of the car is when I'm working on it and therefore not too happy with it at the moment. :)

Yeah, that XC was being driven around a junkyard as a parts hauling yard car. I got there probably 1 day before it would be beyond saving. I drove it off the yard and stopped at the first oilchange place I found. They remembered the car - the PO who sold it to the junkyard was a drunk apparently! The car had a reputation in Athens, AL... But with fresh oil and a full tank of gas, I drove from there to my home in Northport, AL. The car got more than 30 MPG at 60 MPH. That was slow because the tires were not in good shape. But I made it home and the car ran perfectly the whole way.

The turbo system came from a junkyard find. It was an 89 Pontiac TGP. Couldn't save the car as bad as I wanted to because it was a Pull-A-Part yard and they never sell a complete car. So I got the turbo parts and applied them to the XC. Most of it was a direct bolt-on.

Then it was just a matter of slapping on a 2-bar MAP sensor and a tune to go with it. She's been on the road ever since. Haven't dyno'd it but the transmission would slip at anything more than 8 PSI boost. So it's set for about 7 PSI. That's still about 150% of original engine torque so nothing shabby at all.

I had to replace the seals in the A/C compressor to get the air going, then been slowly fixing up the car since then. Needs dew wipe strips soon. These project cars are a never-ending source of things to do. I don't mind that, but I like to keep them drivable. In other words, work through the major mechanical repairs first, then once the car can move under its own power, work on the details over time while driving and enjoying it.

Have you seen the Project Camilla thread? This is an 85 Celebrity Eurosport Coupe. It is not a VR but it is a loaded coupe. It has a long story. Search Project Camilla. Ended up going 0-60 in about 5 seconds....

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
06-17-2015, 02:09 AM
Ok so a little late but here's the latest. Went junk yarding and found a 91 6k safari in pretty decent shape. Thankfully no major tools were required when we extracted a cd player!!!!!! Not sure if it was original cuz its got a sticker that I think says 97. Fits like stock but says Pontiac on it.
Hopefully it'll work and the theft lock won't mess with me...... wish us luck....


AuSSenseiter

86euro
06-19-2015, 02:51 AM
Wow, your red plastic trim strips are in really good shape!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
06-19-2015, 06:45 PM
Thanks Andy, yeah they are all present and look ok. Still they need redone and am missing some of end caps. But definitely better than most of what I've seen out there. Actually the whole kit is in very good shape, worst being a broken piece behind the drivers rear door and the rear passenger door panel is broken in one corner so I try to NEVER open it unless absolute necessary and even then, the front door must be open first.



AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-01-2015, 12:55 AM
Good evening folks. Been a bit since we updated everyone but here's the latest on Wednesday.
First, dad sent us a craigslist email for some tires. Turns out the guy a really good tire, a so so tire (but matched brand/ and line), and a few others for $20 a pop. Ended up getting the pair of michelins (a brand I hate, but worlds better than what I currently have) and a spare 16" tire for our aerostar for $40! I'm hoping the size difference in tires will bring the nose down some. The fronts will be 215/50r17 and the rears are 215/55r17's.
Next on the update list, yesterday we traveled up to Gainesville and met up with a buddy who loaned me his matco monitor 4k scanner. Wednesday is not currently a happy camper. The maf sensor is dead. The map sensor magically gives voltage while unplugged!!! Along with some other garbage, probably gonna look for another ecm.
Next week we are looking at getting a cold air intake tube & maybe lifting the MAF sensor off the cross over tube heat shield.
Oh, and almost forgot, while playing with the scanner, I almost set the car on fire! While scanning, I turned on the air to see what would happen. Well, smoke started rolling out from under the dash is what happened ! Will have to check into that.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
07-01-2015, 01:58 AM
Good evening folks. Been a bit since we updated everyone but here's the latest on Wednesday.
First, dad sent us a craigslist email for some tires. Turns out the guy a really good tire, a so so tire (but matched brand/ and line), and a few others for $20 a pop. Ended up getting the pair of michelins (a brand I hate, but worlds better than what I currently have) and a spare 16" tire for our aerostar for $40! I'm hoping the size difference in tires will bring the nose down some. The fronts will be 215/50r17 and the rears are 215/55r17's.
Next on the update list, yesterday we traveled up to Gainesville and met up with a buddy who loaned me his matco monitor 4k scanner. Wednesday is not currently a happy camper. The maf sensor is dead. The map sensor magically gives voltage while unplugged!!! Along with some other garbage, probably gonna look for another ecm.
Next week we are looking at getting a cold air intake tube & maybe lifting the MAF sensor off the cross over tube heat shield.
Oh, and almost forgot, while playing with the scanner, I almost set the car on fire! While scanning, I turned on the air to see what would happen. Well, smoke started rolling out from under the dash is what happened ! Will have to check into that.

AuSSenseiter

Hi there. Just a reminder that the MAF sensor is not in use on these cars. They had a dealer-installed speed-density conversion done. The MAF sensor was left in the system to save GM money from replacing the connecting boot between the throttle body and the air filter. There is a temperature sensor inside the MAF which is still active, but the airflow meter is not.

The MAP sensor display on the ECM will show a high signal (almost 5 volts) or a near 0 signal with the sensor unplugged, depending on factors that are hard to predict.

To properly diagnose the MAP sensor, you need to connect the sensor to the electrical harness, and disconnect the hose from the MAP sensor vacuum port. Connect a new, clean piece of vacuum hose to the MAP sensor.

Turn on the key but don't start the engine. View the MAP voltage on the monitor. Place the free end of the new, clean piece of vacuum hose in your mouth, and create as much suction as you can. As you make suction, the voltage should go down.

The MAP sensor requires a dedicated vacuum source, not shared with any other vacuum circuits. The MAP sensor is the absolute most critical sensor for the fuel system. The MAP vacuum signal must represent actual engine manifold vacuum. There must be a vacuum signal there at all times, when the engine is running. If this circuit is connected wrong or compromised, the engine will not run correctly. Be sure the vacuum source is not connected to "ported" vacuum which disappears when the throttle is closed (idle).

As for the burning smell from the air system, there is probably a lot of crap-a-doo-doo in the evaporator housing. I will post a video link about what happens and what to do about it! EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZmhTzcZ38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsZmhTzcZ38

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-01-2015, 01:21 PM
Cool, will check the MAP sensor that way. Believe it or not, Wednesday does not yet have the speed density conversion. I'd like to get the car running right then switch over.
AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
07-02-2015, 01:26 AM
Cool, will check the MAP sensor that way. Believe it or not, Wednesday does not yet have the speed density conversion. I'd like to get the car running right then switch over.
AuSSenseiter

Well, I'm not trying to doubt you - but the MAP sensor was added during the SD conversion. There was originally not a MAP sensor on the car. If you have a MAP sensor, you have the conversion done already.

86euro
07-02-2015, 03:15 AM
Rather than sucking on the vacuum line, why not just use a little hand-held vacuum pump? You know the squeeze type mechanical one, not an electric one.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-04-2015, 02:27 AM
Turbokinetic, I stand humbly corrected. Working with a GM tech that's 2.5 hours away, things can be slow going. He finally emailed me back & informed me that Wednesday has the primo ecm and I set the scanner up wrong. Go figure.
Since the MAP sensor controls the fuel maps and stuff, how is the car able to run with it unplugged?
Either way, it looks like Wednesday will be getting a new ac delco MAP sensor from rock auto. Again.
In the meantime, I'm working on a custom cold air intake for Wednesday. With the a/c dryer long gone, we've got plenty of room to play with.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
07-04-2015, 02:37 AM
Turbokinetic, I stand humbly corrected. Working with a GM tech that's 2.5 hours away, things can be slow going. He finally emailed me back & informed me that Wednesday has the primo ecm and I set the scanner up wrong. Go figure.
Since the MAP sensor controls the fuel maps and stuff, how is the car able to run with it unplugged?
Either way, it looks like Wednesday will be getting a new ac delco MAP sensor from rock auto. Again.
In the meantime, I'm working on a custom cold air intake for Wednesday. With the a/c dryer long gone, we've got plenty of room to play with.

AuSSenseiter

I'm happy you found some additional info on the ECM from your Tech friend. Hope it helps you to troubleshoot the system easier. As for how the engine runs without a MAP sensor? The ECM has a backup mode which gives a "blindly calculated" fuel delivery based on engine speed and throttle position. They call this "alpha-N fuel delivery" scheme.

Good luck with the cold air intake, however I sincerely hope you restore the A/C system. It is not rocket science and you can do it yourself. I have posted several videos of A/C repairs on systems in various states of damage. What are you missing other than the dryer?

In Florida, you will appreciate the A/C and it will keep the interior of the car much nicer. The dust level will be a lot less, and it's hard not to sweat on the seats when it's unbearably hot in there.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-04-2015, 03:13 AM
Yes, the a/c will eventually get restored. A black car in the Florida sun is truly no fun. I learned that from a little black X-11 I used to have (factory NON a/c car). Ironically, we drive our slate grey aerostar (which still has its r12 air conditioning from factory) with the windows down more often than using the air.
As far as what's missing, the drier of course, and the compressor. I'll most likely have all the hoses custom made because when the a/c was taken apart, the person wrapped the hose end with duct tape (kinda fits in with the drier duct hose cold air intake that was on the car when I bought it).

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
07-04-2015, 11:10 PM
Yes, the a/c will eventually get restored. A black car in the Florida sun is truly no fun. I learned that from a little black X-11 I used to have (factory NON a/c car). Ironically, we drive our slate grey aerostar (which still has its r12 air conditioning from factory) with the windows down more often than using the air.
As far as what's missing, the drier of course, and the compressor. I'll most likely have all the hoses custom made because when the a/c was taken apart, the person wrapped the hose end with duct tape (kinda fits in with the drier duct hose cold air intake that was on the car when I bought it).

AuSSenseiter

LOL about the duct tape hose end!

I think you'll find that the hoses are all still available new, if needed. I found out that the original hoses on my 88 Ciera XC were still good. It has held refrigerant for 4 years now.

These cars came from the factory with the V5 compressor. It's a very durable model of compressor. With proper flushing of the system, a new compressor should last you for many years.

I've got several A/C repair videos on You Tube. When you get around to fixing the A/C take a look and it may save you some time and re-do work.
Sincerely,
David

Century7667
07-05-2015, 12:53 AM
LOL about the duct tape hose end!

I think you'll find that the hoses are all still available new, if needed. I found out that the original hoses on my 88 Ciera XC were still good. It has held refrigerant for 4 years now.

These cars came from the factory with the V5 compressor. It's a very durable model of compressor. With proper flushing of the system, a new compressor should last you for many years.

I've got several A/C repair videos on You Tube. When you get around to fixing the A/C take a look and it may save you some time and re-do work.
Sincerely,
David

Very durable indeed! I got 12 years of service from the original one in my '96! It was actually still hard at work, but was leaking oil. If I knew then what I know now, I would have pulled it and put a new seal in it myself. I really wish I had, that thing would blow 37 degrees on low fan!

I think the only thing that would worry me would be how to tell how much oil to put back in, but I'm guessing I would pull the accumulator anway, and start with a fresh full charge of PAG oil and go from there...since the V5 doesn't really have a sump. Am I thinking right on this?

Ken T.


Ken T.

CorvairGeek
07-05-2015, 01:13 AM
V5 definitely has a sump, and thus durability.

turbokinetic
07-05-2015, 03:40 AM
Very durable indeed! I got 12 years of service from the original one in my '96! It was actually still hard at work, but was leaking oil. If I knew then what I know now, I would have pulled it and put a new seal in it myself. I really wish I had, that thing would blow 37 degrees on low fan!

I think the only thing that would worry me would be how to tell how much oil to put back in, but I'm guessing I would pull the accumulator anway, and start with a fresh full charge of PAG oil and go from there...since the V5 doesn't really have a sump. Am I thinking right on this?

Ken T.


Ken T.

Hi Ken. The V5 has an oil sump. There is a plug on the side of it which you can open and dump out the old oil; and into which you should install new oil. On V5 systems I try to divide the oil charge in half starting with half in the compressor (through the plug) and the other half in the dryer.

Century7667
07-06-2015, 02:24 AM
Gotcha! But, didn't you put the full oil charge into your Cierra's accumulator in your video?

Ken T.

turbokinetic
07-06-2015, 03:04 AM
Gotcha! But, didn't you put the full oil charge into your Cierra's accumulator in your video?

Ken T.

Yes, because that car has 3300 engine, which uses a HR6 compressor. That compressor has no internal oil sump. The V5 compressor on the 2.8 engine has an internal oil sump that needs to be filled.

Century7667
07-06-2015, 04:37 PM
Yes, because that car has 3300 engine, which uses a HR6 compressor. That compressor has no internal oil sump. The V5 compressor on the 2.8 engine has an internal oil sump that needs to be filled.

Good to know! Thanks for pointing that out!

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-19-2015, 12:03 AM
Hey guys, lotsa great information here. I know the stock a/c hoses are available but we'll probably have to have custom lines made so the cai and a/c lines will be nice to each other.
On other news, work on the VR has slowed considerably. Normally, we just parked the VR out front where it was easy to just jump in, hook up the scanner, and go. And we parked our aerostar right behind Wednesday so close you couldn't walk between them. Then, a week ago, the neighbor across the street had a friend over for drinks. Sometime around 3am the party turned into a fight and the friend left in too much of a hurry and hit our van! Way too f'ing close!!!!!
So instead of just hopping in and going, we have to prepare everything and organize how to shuffle things to get Wednesday out of the back yard. On average it takes an extra half hour to free the poor girl.
I reckon that's just the price of admission for owning an exotic........

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
07-19-2015, 05:05 PM
That's terrible. At least you know who did it though... I have had many times where I walk out and find a smashed tail light (twice!), broken window, etc. and never know who did it. There was one time I came out and found a note saying, sorry, we backed into you tel#555-etc. I didn't see any damage :confused: so I just shrugged it off. About a week later I noticed a slight crease in my front plate and the plate holder itself is crushed/broken. Oh well, at least they were honest.

turbosewgn
07-21-2015, 12:51 PM
Nice build!! I've been working on the Pontiac version of your VR, an '87 6000 S/E. I love the VRs but they are so hard to find. Great to see someone save a good survivor.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-23-2015, 02:20 PM
Nice build!! I've been working on the Pontiac version of your VR, an '87 6000 S/E. I love the VRs but they are so hard to find. Great to see someone save a good survivor.

Thanks! Why not start your own thread? I'm sure there's people here like myself that would love to see a 6k build. Can't say I've ever seen a S/E wagon. Closest I've gotten was an 86 turd brown STE sedan. Bought it for $215 delivered with title. It had a bad fuel pump and the vacuum lines were shot but other wise a nice enough car. Chopped it up and used the pieces to build a citation x11 ste. I miss that car....

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
08-05-2015, 02:38 AM
This evenings update is short and sweet. Since its kinda hard to get Wednesday out of the yard (not that I want to drive her, what with all the rain we've here in Floodida), I've focused on bolt on crap. Today we went and got some parts for the CAI at a deep discount. Got home just before dark and had just enough time to get the collar on the throttle body and the piece that connects the hose for the PCV valve. Gonna have to get a 60 degree elbow so the MAF sensor won't interfere with the shifter cable. Add that and a couple more rubber connectors and everything should go together pretty easy.
Normally I wouldn't use Spectra parts for this as they come off cheesey for me, but this is what's available and cheap. Besides, for now it looks pretty.


AuSSenseiter

turbosewgn
08-14-2015, 03:14 AM
Thanks! Why not start your own thread? I'm sure there's people here like myself that would love to see a 6k build. Can't say I've ever seen a S/E wagon. Closest I've gotten was an 86 turd brown STE sedan. Bought it for $215 delivered with title. It had a bad fuel pump and the vacuum lines were shot but other wise a nice enough car. Chopped it up and used the pieces to build a citation x11 ste. I miss that car....

I do have a thread here. This project is so close to being done, but everything keeps going against it it seems.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
08-19-2015, 01:49 AM
Hey guys, haven't really had Wednesday out because the wife and I have been working on a custom cold air intake. Thankfully it's been pretty easy since the a/c drier is gone.
Near future plans include a beauty and beasts car show on September 12 (already registered), a show in October, and the Turkey Rod Run in November. Would surely be nice to have another a-body at the Turkey run (wednesday has a nervous time hanging with citations). Also, at the beauty and beasts show, their going to have a mobile dyno so we can TRUTHFULLY find out just how much power a bone stock 2.8 has!!!!
Pics will be coming on the air intake.

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
08-19-2015, 01:56 AM
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155452.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155452.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155511.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155511.jpg.html)

Hopefully these come out in order. Here's my custom heat shield to protect the tranny lines.

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155612.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155612.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155556.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150816_155556.jpg.html)

turbokinetic
08-19-2015, 02:08 AM
That looks good. I am curious what the sheet metal part is (the first picture) which I can't find in the installed pictures.

In the past, I have seen the Specter* pipework used and it has dimensional stability issues when near a heat source. I would be careful with that area where it passes over the exhaust crossover.

Will be very interested to hear the dyno results!

Sincerely,
David

*Definition of the word 'specter': "something widely feared as a possible unpleasant or dangerous occurrence." And yes melted plastic dripping on the exhaust system qualifies as a widely feared and possibly unpleasant / dangerous occurrence..... :)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
08-19-2015, 02:45 AM
David, good catch! In building the CAI I kinda went short and set the air filter behind the radiator, on the sub-frame. Putting it there causes the filter to rub the tranny cooler lines. So the sheet metal thing you see in the top pic goes between the tranny lines and air filter. For stability, I made it were it bolts right to the tranny mount.
I could have added extra piping and moved the air filter elsewhere and not needed the heat shield but........

Believe it or not, there is all kinds of room between the exhaust cross over and the piping! Much better than the stock intake which had the MAF sitting directly on the cross over!
Maybe that's what's confusing the MAP sensor?

AuSSenseiter

Old Gold
08-19-2015, 07:00 PM
Looks great! I love the red silicon boots and polished tubing.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
09-12-2015, 02:00 AM
Today's thrilling update goes like this. Been rushing and trying to get Wednesday ready for her debut tomorrow. This will be her first car show since being rebuilt. One item on the list was getting new tires out of the back seat and on the rims. So when wifey and I showed up at the tire shop, they had a set of rims identical to mine. Well, a bit of chatting and horse trading and Wednesday now has a complete set of matching tires and rims! Yea!! She rides and handles ssssoooo much better.
It's kinda hard to believe but since Wednesdays rebuild, I hardly drive her. In fact, since completing her, we've only driven her 860 miles.
Turbo kinetic, so far the cold air intake has shown no problems or melting, maybe we just got lucky.
A problem that we are having (which sadly will keep us off the dyno) is a semi random dead cylinder. Thinking it's a bad injector. Wires are good as are the coils (checked at night, no sparks). So that leaves the plugs and injectors. Plugs are fairly new but will still pull them when we get the chance. Injectors are probably factory original, 29 year old, 215,000 mile, multiple time sitting, tired units.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
09-12-2015, 07:06 PM
Today's thrilling update goes like this. Been rushing and trying to get Wednesday ready for her debut tomorrow. This will be her first car show since being rebuilt. One item on the list was getting new tires out of the back seat and on the rims. So when wifey and I showed up at the tire shop, they had a set of rims identical to mine. Well, a bit of chatting and horse trading and Wednesday now has a complete set of matching tires and rims! Yea!! She rides and handles ssssoooo much better.
It's kinda hard to believe but since Wednesdays rebuild, I hardly drive her. In fact, since completing her, we've only driven her 860 miles.
Turbo kinetic, so far the cold air intake has shown no problems or melting, maybe we just got lucky.
A problem that we are having (which sadly will keep us off the dyno) is a semi random dead cylinder. Thinking it's a bad injector. Wires are good as are the coils (checked at night, no sparks). So that leaves the plugs and injectors. Plugs are fairly new but will still pull them when we get the chance. Injectors are probably factory original, 29 year old, 215,000 mile, multiple time sitting, tired units.

AuSSenseiter

As for the dead cylinder - have you checked the coils using a meter? They are very easy to check. Here is a video I did to show it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmGLQg5Fsro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmGLQg5Fsro

The injectors can also be tested with an ohm resistance check. They should all be EQUAL and none less than 12Ω (IIRC).

If I were a betting man - I would bet on a coil going out!

That's good you got a deal on the matching rims, too!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
09-12-2015, 08:58 PM
Wednesdays debut was a total success!!!!! Though she's still a diamond in the rough, she brought home her first award. The show was kinda small and mostly corvettes and other typical bland seen everywhere cars, so we didn't go totally berserk detailing. Ok, that and we ran out of time so "detailing" meant stopping at a self serve car wash on the way. But it was enough to earn her an "Outstanding Vehicle Award "

I guess it's true that even an ugly duckling can bring home the goods.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
09-12-2015, 10:02 PM
Wednesdays debut was a total success!!!!! Though she's still a diamond in the rough, she brought home her first award. The show was kinda small and mostly corvettes and other typical bland seen everywhere cars, so we didn't go totally berserk detailing. Ok, that and we ran out of time so "detailing" meant stopping at a self serve car wash on the way. But it was enough to earn her an "Outstanding Vehicle Award "

I guess it's true that even an ugly duckling can bring home the goods.

AuSSenseiter

Hey that's great! People do like to see something different, that's for sure!

SegaGT
09-13-2015, 11:55 AM
Pictures please!!! ;)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
09-25-2015, 10:00 PM
Sega, sorry but no pics as nothing really caught my eye (typical car show dominated by vettes, camaros, etc).

On to the update. Wednesday has earned her first 1500 miles since rebuild. Yea!!!!!! Super happy with her. When we got home, I checked Wednesdays coils as shown in the video and they were all good at around 700 ohms but one wire came off suspiciously easy so we'll have to see.....
Got a couple shows in Oct that we are considering attending but really looking forward to the fall Turkey run (got the parking passes in the mail today!!! Yippy!). Is anyone else from here gonna be showing?

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
09-28-2015, 02:28 AM
Sega, sorry but no pics as nothing really caught my eye (typical car show dominated by vettes, camaros, etc).

On to the update. Wednesday has earned her first 1500 miles since rebuild. Yea!!!!!! Super happy with her. When we got home, I checked Wednesdays coils as shown in the video and they were all good at around 700 ohms but one wire came off suspiciously easy so we'll have to see.....
Got a couple shows in Oct that we are considering attending but really looking forward to the fall Turkey run (got the parking passes in the mail today!!! Yippy!). Is anyone else from here gonna be showing?

AuSSenseiter

Glad she's up and running well!

What is this Turkey Run you speak of?

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
09-28-2015, 12:59 PM
Turbo, the turkey run is only the biggest car show of the east. Held inside the Daytona race track, it regularly attracts around 5,000 cars!!! For more information visit www.turkeyrun.com.
Wednesday and the wife & I hang out with some wickedly modded citations (a twin turbo, a couple super charged 3800's, a couple v8's and the world's only factory built twin engine, awd, 600hp push me pull me citation x11).
There is still room for others to join us....
Honestly I would love to be able to set something up were we could have an A-body get together at the spring turkey run. The spring run also includes a parade lap around the race track!!!! Will post a separate thread in general discussion.

Wickedly fun times!

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
09-28-2015, 10:27 PM
Very interesting possibility. I am probably going to be at work during that time, though. Thanks for the website link.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-01-2015, 01:24 AM
Not much to update on but heres the latest. Wednesday has logged nearly 3000 miles. Also have a friend in SC thats gonna mail a ecm monday, should have it by Wednesday (if it doesnt work, I'll be writing you David). If the new computer works, I may be looking for someone to take the junk ecm and reflash it with some tweaks.......
Before too much longer, gonna have to clean the engine bay again. Seems the VR has taken to leaking tranny fluid very slowly. Next on the list is gonna be getting an alignment (eating the outside edge of the drivers front tire) but kinda waiting til I can get new struts and springs. Speaking of alignments, is the caster on these cars adjustable? Seems only the right front is rubbing currently.

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-01-2015, 01:34 AM
According to what I understand from GM service literature:
" Because of their naturally straight-running characteristics, front wheel drive vehicles are not overly sensitive to caster. Caster is non adjustable".

Having said that, a weak spring, unusual loading or component damage can show up as a caster issue. The example from a FSM states:
"If one wheel has more positive caster than the other, it will cause that wheel to pull toward the center of the vehicle. This will cause the vehicle to move or lead toward the side with the least amount of positive caster..."

Source: 1988 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual (same text used on other year A-body FSM's too).

turbokinetic
11-01-2015, 01:05 PM
Not much to update on but heres the latest. Wednesday has logged nearly 3000 miles. Also have a friend in SC thats gonna mail a ecm monday, should have it by Wednesday (if it doesnt work, I'll be writing you David). If the new computer works, I may be looking for someone to take the junk ecm and reflash it with some tweaks.......
Before too much longer, gonna have to clean the engine bay again. Seems the VR has taken to leaking tranny fluid very slowly. Next on the list is gonna be getting an alignment (eating the outside edge of the drivers front tire) but kinda waiting til I can get new struts and springs. Speaking of alignments, is the caster on these cars adjustable? Seems only the right front is rubbing currently.

AuSSenseiter

Congrats on reaching the first oilchange point!

Just keep me informed about that ECM! The offer stands as long as I am here and able to send it. Just remember I can get sent away for work without warning.

Remember with a performance tune for the spare ECM - ALL the ECM's are the same. The tune is flashed into the MEMCAL module. It's located underneath the cover on the top of the ECM. You must use the MEMCAL that goes with the car. If you make a tune, it is saved in the MEMCAL and not the ECM. All of the ECM's operating system and program memory is located in the MEMCAL module. Sorry if I am re-iterating the same thing over and over but this is very important and your success with changing the ECM depends on the correct MEMCAL being installed in the ECM. I'm not talking "down" to you - promise I'm trying to be helpful. :)

Sega make a very well informed and complete post about the caster, so there's not much I can add. On some race cars they have slotted out the bolts at the top of the strut tower in order to gain a small amount of caster adjustment. Not sure if it would be enough to make a real difference or not...

I just had to take my mom's car for alignment. Its right front tire was worn down to the steel belt along the outside edge. The shop said that the camber was horribly out on that side. Her rear tires were still at more than 60% tread. Alignments are cheap insurance to prevent tire wearing out prematurely.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-01-2015, 09:18 PM
Sega, Thanks for the info. Guess I just need to get better inner fender wells. I am wondering though, since they make tubular control arms for fieros, could those fit Wednesday?

Turbo, Also great info, hopefully I can find another memcal chip to play with. The upgrades I'd be looking for would be overdrive at 45, tcc lockup at 55, and fan cooling kicking in around 210. Any other fuel/ timing changes would be a bonus.

Another update that didnt get included last night is we have the drivers door torn apart for wiring work. Crux is the wiring went everywhere, the window switch fell apart, and the window is down so I cant get at the door lock actuator wiring. Really need a diagram on this circuit so as we can (hopefully) get the windows functional soon (dad hates flipping his cigarette ashes through the door seal gap).

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-01-2015, 10:06 PM
No problem :o
I think A-body.net has you covered on the diagram too.

http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?50-Power-Windows-1987-and-later&p=93&viewfull=1#post93

Century7667
11-02-2015, 01:10 AM
According to what I understand from GM service literature:
" Because of their naturally straight-running characteristics, front wheel drive vehicles are not overly sensitive to caster. Caster is non adjustable".

Having said that, a weak spring, unusual loading or component damage can show up as a caster issue. The example from a FSM states:
"If one wheel has more positive caster than the other, it will cause that wheel to pull toward the center of the vehicle. This will cause the vehicle to move or lead toward the side with the least amount of positive caster..."

Source: 1988 Oldsmobile Chassis Service Manual (same text used on other year A-body FSM's too).

Must be good design. Though not adjustable, I had a conversation with the alignment man, and he said it was spot on. After all the chug holes Houston has subjected the poor car too, I was quite gratified!

Ken T.

turbokinetic
11-02-2015, 04:02 AM
....hopefully I can find another memcal chip to play with. The upgrades I'd be looking for would be overdrive at 45, tcc lockup at 55, and fan cooling kicking in around 210. Any other fuel/ timing changes would be a bonus.

I am pretty sure the cooling fan control is controlled by the MEMCAL. That is easy to change.

At what temperature does the cooling fan kick in now? You usually want it about 12 to 10°F above the thermostat setpoint. In other words, with a 180°F thermostat, you would want the fan to kick on at 192° and off at 190°F. This would help eliminate excessive temperature swings on the engine.

The transmission internally (mechanically) selects when to shift. The shifting from between gears 1, 2, 3, and 4 is completely controlled by the transmission its self. The TCC clutch is controlled by the ECM via the MEMCAL settings.

The transmission is configured to shift to 4th gear no slower than 45 MPH. The TCC can usually engage at anything from about 35 MPH on up. The TCC can be set in the program, but the shifting of gears is not under ECM control.

There are mechanical adjustments to the transmission governor, however they are sort of tedious.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-03-2015, 04:56 PM
Turbo, currently the fan kicks in at 220*, way too freakking hot! Of course, there is a cut tube in the rad. though I aint worried cuz when its rolling, it just don't get hot....

On the tranny, maybe I'm wrong but it *feels* like its shifting into overdrive at 35 then the tcc locking up between 45/50mph. Again, I probably got that backwards. I just know that it really bogs the motor down (1200rpm @35mph) and then has no throttle response and bucking and chugging like a pissed off rhino under the hood at 45~50.

Now, if I drop it into 3rd, no problems.... go figure

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
11-04-2015, 12:20 AM
Turbo, currently the fan kicks in at 220*, way too freakking hot! Of course, there is a cut tube in the rad. though I aint worried cuz when its rolling, it just don't get hot....


Ah yeah - that is way too hot. The problem is that when the engine "cycles" from 185°F to 220°F as you stop and go - the stress is harmful to the engine. When you get your new ECM, please post the information from the MEMCAL and I will see if there is a copy of this one available. If so I can see what is involved in changing the fan temperature.


On the tranny, maybe I'm wrong but it *feels* like its shifting into overdrive at 35 then the tcc locking up between 45/50mph. Again, I probably got that backwards.

With all due respect, you are in the driver's seat and there are some problems with your car that could affect it. You could be right about your car. I know that by design, when you are going gently along, the TCC should engage at about 35 and then the 3>4 shift at about 45.


I just know that it really bogs the motor down (1200rpm @35mph) and then has no throttle response and bucking and chugging like a pissed off rhino under the hood at 45~50.

Very interesting! It should not perform badly at 1200 RPM. The engine should be smooth, and as you open the throttle, eventually it will release the converter clutch and allow more revs. If the engine is misfiring and bucking, then you still have something going wrong there. :(

SegaGT
11-04-2015, 12:58 AM
On the tranny, maybe I'm wrong but it *feels* like its shifting into overdrive at 35 then the tcc locking up between 45/50mph. Again, I probably got that backwards. I just know that it really bogs the motor down (1200rpm @35mph) and then has no throttle response and bucking and chugging like a pissed off rhino under the hood at 45~50.

Now, if I drop it into 3rd, no problems.... go figure

AuSSenseiter

Turbo has more tranny knowledge in his pinky than I do in my whole body, (I came from old school kick-down adjustments between trans/carb linkage), but 4th at 35 sounds too soon especially if under load/acceleration. My opinions based on my A have no direct translation to other cars because down shift speeds vary by final drive and sprocket ratios. There are charts that specify the speed ranges for up shifts and down shifts depending on your configuration at a given TPS percentage (There is also the trans end of it, pressures and vacuum at play which I have no earthly idea about). The ECU uses the throttle angle and vehicle speed managing the TCC. There are specific tests you can do to zero in on where the problem is. I would think that even a part throttle (50%) snap should get you a TCC release and drop 1 gear almost instantly if everything is doing its job.

I'm sure Turbo can point you right where to start on this issue if it is not downshifting under load/acceleration.

EDIT: Ooops Turbo beat me to post...Good thing for you! :o

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-07-2015, 11:52 PM
Evening fellow a body fanatics, got the new ecm on Wednesday. Pretty straight forward swap. The difference is crazy. Sure, she still has problems, but she's not stalling, the check engine light is out. Performance still sucks but at least it's drivable at this point. Did I mention that Wednesday sounds crazy at 4000 rpm?
The tranny still feels bogged at low rpm but a quick lift and stab on the throttle seems to help there.
Could it be that the memcal chip is getting confused because the trannies not a GX3 and we are running 215/55r17's? I know it throws the speedo off a bit so.........???
Oh, and before I end this update, at 1200 rpm it still feels a bit of shuddering, kinda like a slipping clutch til I kick it down.

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-08-2015, 01:17 AM
I know this sounds silly, but if you happen to have a pair of stock sized wheels/tires. Temporarily throw them on the front and see what kind of difference it makes.
215 55R 17 is actually a big enough jump in circumference (68.61 MPH at an indicated 65,.. over 5%+) that it acts like a change in final drive ratio.

If it runs the same with stock size tires on the drive wheels then you know to check elsewhere and not worry about it.

turbokinetic
11-08-2015, 02:40 AM
Evening fellow a body fanatics, got the new ecm on Wednesday. Pretty straight forward swap. The difference is crazy. Sure, she still has problems, but she's not stalling, the check engine light is out. Performance still sucks but at least it's drivable at this point.

Glad that got it running better! It's pretty important that the ECM is fully functional. :)


The tranny still feels bogged at low rpm but a quick lift and stab on the throttle seems to help there.
Could it be that the memcal chip is getting confused because the trannies not a GX3 and we are running 215/55r17's? I know it throws the speedo off a bit so.........???
Oh, and before I end this update, at 1200 rpm it still feels a bit of shuddering, kinda like a slipping clutch til I kick it down.


Yes it absolutely will cause problems if the car came with a 3.33 ratio transmission and the transmission currently installed is a lower numeric ratio. Didn't realize the trans was not the same as original ratio. If the new transmission was specified out for a 3800 car or something with a higher torque engine - then you will have drivability trouble.

The torque converter stall speed could also be way too low for the 2.8, since it was possibly designed to hold a 3800 with 220 Lb of torque.

The program in the MEMCAL can be modified to change the lockup speed and the lockup load limits. That will improve it a lot; but it won't change the ratios or the stall speed. :(

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-10-2015, 01:01 AM
Sega, I do have the oe wheels the problem is the tires. 2 were given to a friend to help them out and the other are in such bad shape...... I have a set 15's that I might be able to use. Those came off an '01 Malibu but I forgot the tire size. Wish this yard down the road a bit weren't such dicks. They have a lumina z34 that has 16's but @ $50 each JUST for the rims..... Then one goal of Wednesday would be achieved (owning a set of each size wheel & tires, from 14" to 17").

Turbo, A good brain is a good thing!! On another group (rarefwdgmabody on yahoo groups) someone just did a great write up on low rpm/ chugging so we are gonna try that and report.
The MEMCal info for Wednesday is ASMZ 0742 . Maybe that's the info you need to figure out what tweaks can or cant be done.

Next time we get a chance to give Wednesday a thorough going overs, I'm gonna find whatever numbers I can off the tranny. Would suck to have to take Wednesday back off the road and sell the new tranny to get the original rebuilt. I truly miss the oe tranny......


AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-10-2015, 02:18 AM
Nothing wrong with having multiple sizes! I have experimented for years but made a lot of costly mistakes.
Personally I now try to stay close to original circumference to avoid speedometer and final drive penalty.

If the original wheel and tire size was 195 70 R14, my calculation was wrong and 215 55 R17 would be 69.X MPH over.

You can keep the 17"s but the two tire sizes that best match (if they clear width) without giving you a taller final drive ratio:

215 45 R17 (64.66 MPH -.55%) not as tall, not many choices in this size though.
205 50 R17 (65.85 MPH +1.25%) Not as wide but a lot more tire choices. Taller than stock but not by much.

You can double check individual tire specs as every brand has slightly different actual sizes, profile etc. I always do this before spending money on new tires to avoid rubbing issues, I measure the current tires with a caliper too...

Mind you, this is only my opinion, I know people like to "roll" with the tallest tires they can now days.

It seems if you are lugging, switching tires might be the quickest easiest way to get you more drivability till you get around to a mechanical solution.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-10-2015, 02:44 AM
I think the original size was 195/75r14 (I think). Checked on the other sizes but haven't been impressed. When I first bought the 17" rims, a couple rims had 205/45r17's. Totally sucked major donkey nads. the look was completely wrong. The width was completely wrong, looked like those tires should have been on 5.5" rims, not 7" wides. Will post the 15" tire sizes we have.

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-10-2015, 02:46 AM
Heres the post from the rarefwdgmabody. Credit David Allen....

Good points there! I want to add a few things that may help.



The fuel pressure regulator is maintaining a CONSTANT DIFFERENTIAL PRESSURE between the fuel rail and the intake manifold. The fuel pressure follows manifold pressure at a 1:1 rate.



For instance, my 1987 Buick 3.8 Turbo engine idles at about 18 inches mercury vacuum. We can convert that to PSIG and get the following: -8.8 PSIG.



All that means is, when the engine is idling and it is working right and has good vacuum - the engine has LOWERED its manifold pressure by 8.8 PSI. Because the fuel regulator is referenced to manifold vacuum, it will lower the fuel pressure (as measured at the pressure test port) by the same exact amount.



The reason for this is to keep the pressure difference between the injector inlet port and the injector outlet port THE SAME under all conditions. This is very important because the ECM is calibrated based on the assumption that the injectors flow the same rate of fuel regardless of engine vacuum.



Lower the manifold pressure (by making vacuum) and the injector outlet port sees a reduced pressure. To keep the flow constant through the injector, the pressure at the inlet port (the fuel rail) must be lowered by the same amount.



If the fuel pump on the 3.8 Turbo is running with the engine stopped, the fuel pressure will read 43 PSI. As soon as the engine is started, the pressure will fall to about 35. This is because the engine made vacuum and reduced the manifold pressure. Then the fuel regulator reduced the fuel rail pressure at a 1:1 ratio.



The reason your car shows an increase in fuel pressure when the engine is running badly is because, the engine loses vacuum (increase in manifold pressure) when it is running badly. This causes the fuel regulator to follow that increase in pressure - and raise the fuel pressure.



The low RPM / High Load misfire on the DIS-equipped cars has been a problem for years. One of common reasons it happens is faulty ignition coils. The most common failure mode of the ignition coils is a broken (open) circuit in the coil secondary. Fortunately, this is extremely easy to check. For one coil at a time, remove both spark plug wires from the coil towers. Using your multimeter, measure resistance (KΩ mode) between the two towers on the coil. They should measure in the 5 to 15 KΩ range. This will depend on the type, brand, and temperature of coils installed. There are two things to look for. One; that NONE of them measure open-circuit or “mega-ohms” when you measure them. Two; all three coils are similar in resistance. Once again, since they are temperature sensitive, if one has been removed from the engine and sittin on the bench, it will be cooler and measure different.



The coil test is so easy I like to do it first.



The second test I would do is a spark plug wire resistance test. This is almost the same as the above test, but you are testing each plug wire individually. Remove it from the coil and the plug. Measure resistance (KΩ mode) between the coil end and the plug end. All the wires should have resistance in the KΩ range. None should be open-circuit and none should be mega-ohms (MΩ). The resistance depends on the length of the wires, so the longer ones will have more resistance.



The next test I would do is an ignition module grounding inspection. The early LG3 (3.8) and 3300 modules had a ground through the module baseplate to the engine bracket. This is bad because the screws that attach the module to the plate have nuts tightened on the plastic body of the coils, and therefore the screws don’t ground the module. The plastic further limits the amount of clamping force you can use without damaging the module. Take the coils off the module, and take the module off the bracket. Look for powdery corrosion on the bottom of the module. Look also for powdery corrosion between the module bracket and the engine. Anything that interrupts metal-to-metal grounding contact is bad.



The 3300 also (as stated below) can have injectors that fail with time and heat. They can fail with or without alcohol in the fuel. Once the engine is fully warmed up, take resistance measurements of the injector coils. They should all be the same. If any one is lower than the others, then you have a problem developing.



If all the above checks out, the next thing I would do is connect the laptop to the ALDL port and see what the MAF reading does when you are cruising steady speed and “ease” on the gas. See what the reading does when the bucking happens.



Sincerely,

David

SegaGT
11-10-2015, 03:15 AM
...Checked on the other sizes but haven't been impressed. When I first bought the 17" rims, a couple rims had 205/45r17's. Totally sucked major donkey nads. the look was completely wrong. The width was completely wrong, looked like those tires should have been on 5.5" rims, not 7" wides. Will post the 15" tire sizes we have.

AuSSenseiter


Hahahahah :rofl: 205 45 R17 is a "rubber band" tire, definitely undersized. I can understand why you didn't like them.
In Houston, a pothole would have claimed your nice rims in a single day.
I popped and ruined a 235 45 R17 with only 3K on it :banghead:

PS 185 75 R14 was the "typical" A-body size that I originally calculated from, the VR's and others supposedly came with 195 70 R14 :dunno:

turbokinetic
11-10-2015, 04:24 AM
...The MEMCal info for Wednesday is ASMZ 0742 . Maybe that's the info you need to figure out what tweaks can or cant be done.

Thanks, that will help me to see what can be done.


Next time we get a chance to give Wednesday a thorough going overs, I'm gonna find whatever numbers I can off the tranny. Would suck to have to take Wednesday back off the road and sell the new tranny to get the original rebuilt. I truly miss the oe tranny......


What was wrong with the original transmission? I have rebuilt many of these transmissions. They are not that hard to do, as far as transmissions go.

If you still have the original, it is possible that it can be refurbished and later swapped back in.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-10-2015, 07:35 PM
Sega, Might be awhile before I can get my reference stuff, but when I do....

Turbo, the death knoll on the OE tranny was helping a friend when no one else would. A friend lent her truck to someone who blew the tranny in it then refused to make it right. While we were in route, we stopped to pick up the keys. Since the tranny started slipping, I got out to see what was up. Turns out the drivers front wheel was soaked in tranny fluid thanks to a failed tranny axle seal. Told our friend the car was on its last legs but we would push it. Finished with her truck and was on our way home (bottle feeding the tranny the whole time) and got to 25 miles away from home when the tranny quit. THAT was an interesting tow....
I have a guy in Gainesville, Fl. that really wants to get ahold of my original drive train for rebuilding. $2500 for everything including all upgrades for the motor and tranny. Now, getting ahold of that kinda change is a bit difficult......

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
11-11-2015, 03:25 AM
Heres the post from the rarefwdgmabody. Credit David Allen....

I wonder who that is? :)

turbokinetic
11-11-2015, 03:30 AM
Sega, Might be awhile before I can get my reference stuff, but when I do....

Turbo, the death knoll on the OE tranny was helping a friend when no one else would. A friend lent her truck to someone who blew the tranny in it then refused to make it right. While we were in route, we stopped to pick up the keys. Since the tranny started slipping, I got out to see what was up. Turns out the drivers front wheel was soaked in tranny fluid thanks to a failed tranny axle seal. Told our friend the car was on its last legs but we would push it. Finished with her truck and was on our way home (bottle feeding the tranny the whole time) and got to 25 miles away from home when the tranny quit. THAT was an interesting tow....
I have a guy in Gainesville, Fl. that really wants to get ahold of my original drive train for rebuilding. $2500 for everything including all upgrades for the motor and tranny. Now, getting ahold of that kinda change is a bit difficult......

AuSSenseiter

I see.

So, basically, the transmission has a serious leak at the left side axle seal, and it was run low on oil until it would no longer pull the car.

That would probably be a fairly straightforward repair. Aside from the leak, there are probably a few destroyed clutches and everything else is normal.

Did you change the engine at the same time? You say that the guy wants to get the "motor and tranny" so I'm a little confused.

A cost of $2500 to overhaul a 440T4 that was delivered (not having to Remove and Install it) is a little unreasonable, in my opinion. The parts would be about $300 most likely, assuming it is a clutch problem and not a completely trashed valve body.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-11-2015, 05:05 PM
Sorry for the confusion turbo. Let me try to explain another way. When we bought the new tranny, we kept the original motor in place. My friend in G-ville has been working for GM dealers since the 70's. When I say he wants the motor and tranny, he's wanting to rebuild BOTH of them to a spec that will fit me. The $2500 is to rebuild the tranny and update it to modern spec PLUS rebuilding the motor with a 3.1 turbo cam, roller everything, bore and stroke to a 3.2 litre, plus some other stuff he won't tell me about.
With all that said, yes, Wednesday will have to go under the knife again.... thats part of being a project......

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-11-2015, 11:52 PM
...The $2500 is to rebuild the tranny and update it to modern spec PLUS rebuilding the motor with a 3.1 turbo cam, roller everything, bore and stroke to a 3.2 litre, plus some other stuff he won't tell me about...

Man that sounds NICE!!! Either way this wagon is going to be a show stopper when done. Congrats! :rock:

turbokinetic
11-12-2015, 01:55 AM
Sorry for the confusion turbo. Let me try to explain another way. When we bought the new tranny, we kept the original motor in place. My friend in G-ville has been working for GM dealers since the 70's. When I say he wants the motor and tranny, he's wanting to rebuild BOTH of them to a spec that will fit me. ...

Yeah that's how it goes - once a project car ALWAYS a project car! But I have been daily driving project cars for years! :rock:

I have done numerous builds and learned a lot from experience. I can tell you, that there are a few critical points to watch out for.


The $2500 is to rebuild the tranny and update it to modern spec

There is an ATSG manual that summarizes all the factory updates and tells what is and isn't compatible through the years. There are two books on the 440T4. The 87 year transmissions were pretty well modernized with just a few points to upgrade.

The biggest issue is the torque converter stall speed, the chain ratio, and the final drive ratio. These three things are what determine the engine RPM and therefore HORSEPOWER DELIVERY under various circumstances. These need to be matched to the engine. It is almost always beneficial to install a "one-step-higher" stall speed torque converter than the factory had in the transmission. The chain and final drive need to be the same as the car came with or you will have shuddering and hesitation problems.

There is a "system correction package" shift kit from Transgo. This will improve the transmission greatly. Always install it.

Finally, there is a dual-plate 4th clutch that was introduced with the 4T60E. It will retrofit back to the 440T4 and will dramatically firm-up the 3>4 shift and improve durability.


PLUS rebuilding the motor with a 3.1 turbo cam, roller everything, bore and stroke to a 3.2 litre, plus some other stuff he won't tell me about.

Word to the wise - do NOT install a turbo-spec camshaft in a naturally aspirated engine. It will be slower than stock because the turbo cam grinds require a turbocharged engine to be efficient. In other words, do not put in a "turbo cam" unless you plan to install the rest of the turbocharged intercooled system.

I had my original iron-head 2.8 bored out and installed a 3.1 crank. Ended up with 2.3L displacement. With the factory stock camshaft, and everything else factory stock, it turned into a beast and a half when a turbo was installed. Very competent indeed.

As far as I know - nobody makes a retrofit roller cam for the 2.8 engine. There is no room in the block for the lifters with roller, if I am correct. The 3100 engine had factory roller lifters but the block is entirely different.

This cam would be a very good upgrade: http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=CC&Product_Code=16-232-4&Category_Code=CHEV466Cam173

Comp Cams is a very good company. They are an engineering company who does nothing but camshafts and valvetrain. Their tech support is second to none.




With all that said, yes, Wednesday will have to go under the knife again.... thats part of being a project......

AuSSenseiter

Century7667
11-12-2015, 04:48 PM
Comp Cams is a very good company. They are an engineering company who does nothing but camshafts and valvetrain. Their tech support is second to none.

I'll second that recommendation. I've purchased 3 from Competition Cams; they were all flat tappet, but had absolutely no issues with any of them.

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-12-2015, 11:46 PM
Nothing wrong with having multiple sizes! I have experimented for years but made a lot of costly mistakes.
Personally I now try to stay close to original circumference to avoid speedometer and final drive penalty.

If the original wheel and tire size was 195 70 R14, my calculation was wrong and 215 55 R17 would be 69.X MPH over.

You can keep the 17"s but the two tire sizes that best match (if they clear width) without giving you a taller final drive ratio:

215 45 R17 (64.66 MPH -.55%) not as tall, not many choices in this size though.
205 50 R17 (65.85 MPH +1.25%) Not as wide but a lot more tire choices. Taller than stock but not by much.

You can double check individual tire specs as every brand has slightly different actual sizes, profile etc. I always do this before spending money on new tires to avoid rubbing issues, I measure the current tires with a caliper too...

Mind you, this is only my opinion, I know people like to "roll" with the tallest tires they can now days.

It seems if you are lugging, switching tires might be the quickest easiest way to get you more drivability till you get around to a mechanical solution.

OK, Sega, was finally able to get some more research and the malibu wheels from dads. According to eurosportvr.com, the VR could be had with either 195/70 or 195/75 14's. It would be an educated guess, but with the way everything has built and put together, I would say ours was ordered with the 75 series.
There actually is a reason we rock the 17's. Please keep in mind I am personally against "donking" cars. That being said, I wanted to create the illusion that the car was lowered without sacrificing the suspension. Besides, the oe's just looked puny with no aftermarket support for used tires. We can find used 17's all over the place.... In fact, the suspension has actually been improved by going plus 3 on the wheels.

Now as I mentioned earlier, I was at dads and dug out the malibu rims. The tires are dry rotted but should be usable. Those tires are 215/60r15, maybe a little closer to oe. Just not sure when we will get to switch the wheels over. I'm certain it will look like a$$, but for the sake of diagnostics.......

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-13-2015, 12:33 AM
According to eurosportvr.com, the VR could be had with either 195/70 or 195/75 14's. .. There actually is a reason we rock the 17's.... I wanted to create the illusion that the car was lowered without sacrificing the suspension. Besides, the oe's just looked puny with no aftermarket support for used tires.., the suspension has actually been improved by going plus 3 on the wheels.,.was finally able to get some more research and the malibu wheels from dads...those tires are 215/60r15, maybe a little closer to oe... I'm certain it will look like a$$, but for the sake of diagnostics.......

AuSSenseiter

Cool! Thanks for the VR tire info. I wasn't really sure what they used! I know what you mean about limitations with the stock rim sizes. As far as the 75 series, even I don't like that much flexing sidewall so went from 75 to 70 series on the stock rims. I'll also agree with the plus approach for handling. I've settled for +2 on a couple different cars that I went with upgrades on. I'm afraid +3 just wouldn't work on our terrible roads without having to go to oversized tires. I'm sure you will find a good balance and worst case scenario can just get a final drive that will work with the rims/tires that get you the best balance of performance/looks. Just hoping you can get something up there for better drivability to buy you time to get your final powertrain together or reconfigured. :thumbsup:

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
11-23-2015, 11:48 PM
Once again, the a-body group members have out smarted me, lol. Followed your advise, Sega and swapped to the 15's and there have been some pros and cons. The biggest plus is that most of the drivability issues are gone. With the gearing being out of whack, the 17's were just too power draining. I have purposely "lugged" the motor @ 1200rpm and it feels like going across a steel grated draw bridge but theres next to no bucking and trashing and the kick down was easier. Now we can somewhat concentrate on the coil issues. The draw backs include suspension is wacked. Slightest rain and it feels like riding a slingshot. Also I need to get my butt cheeks recalibrated since the speedo is more in line and I like to drive fast....

AuSSenseiter

SegaGT
11-24-2015, 01:04 AM
Cool to hear you made some progress so you can workout the other issues. :rock:
We are all just learning as we go. Sometimes we get it first try, sometimes we just keep trying till we end up with what makes us happy.
I know a lot of us are going to learn from you as you finish your project.
But when is a project ever finished! :)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-04-2015, 01:30 AM
Not much to update but I wanted to brag about ordering a 12 pin connector off eBay. Should be in in about a week.
Now the big question is what's the connector for?

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
12-04-2015, 02:07 AM
Not much to update but I wanted to brag about ordering a 12 pin connector off eBay. Should be in in about a week.
Now the big question is what's the connector for?

AuSSenseiter

Hmmmm. There are not a lot of 12-pin connectors on these cars! ECM has 24 and 32 pin connectors....

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-04-2015, 03:32 AM
I like the way you think, turbo, but alas, not quite correct. Only really need a 10 pin, but those are hard to get. 12 pin connectors are everywhere.
Does this make things more clear as mud?

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
12-04-2015, 01:21 PM
I like the way you think, turbo, but alas, not quite correct. Only really need a 10 pin, but those are hard to get. 12 pin connectors are everywhere.
Does this make things more clear as mud?

AuSSenseiter

LOL! Is it a weather-sealed connector - like a Deutsch or Weatherpack? Or just a plain-jane connector? Now I'm curious.... :)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-05-2015, 04:59 PM
I would have loved getting the deutsch connector but those are a bit expensive. No, the one we got is off eBay, search 12 pin connector, it's the white box type for $7.99 plus $2.00 shipping....
Was at Wal-Mart and picked up a cheapo mini butane torch and some solder.
Already have the nuts and other needed parts so as soon as the 12 pin comes in, we will be ready to rock.

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-09-2015, 02:01 AM
A couple days ago the wife and I went moving saleing and proved once again, it'll haul the load. First sale we stopped at we picked up a cheapo Chinese 135cc quad runner. Yep, it went in the back of Wednesday, mostly. Used some wire to hold the hatch down.
The next sale we ended up late enough in the day were we were getting things just given to us including a monster tv, 2 propane tanks, hammers, knives, and more. Wednesday was definitely sitting on her tires.
Tomorrow the connector should be in.... woohoo....

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-16-2015, 02:19 AM
First, a pic of Wednesday as she is today, sad really...http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151215_110447.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151215_110447.jpg.html)

The other day we went to get an alignment and was told it can't be done because there's 2" of play from the inner tye rod on the passenger side. Great, there's another $120 bill to be taken care of. Funny though, there's a $18 core charge. I think my fast ratio rack is worth more than $18 so we will keep it.
On top of that, the ignition module is north of $100 AND we kinda would like a set of MSD coils ($133).
Dang we must love Wednesday to keep throwing money at her like it was going out of style.... and we haven't even gotten to the pretty crap yet.....

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
12-16-2015, 05:12 AM
First, a pic of Wednesday as she is today, sad really...http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151215_110447.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151215_110447.jpg.html)

The other day we went to get an alignment and was told it can't be done because there's 2" of play from the inner tye rod on the passenger side. Great, there's another $120 bill to be taken care of. Funny though, there's a $18 core charge. I think my fast ratio rack is worth more than $18 so we will keep it.
On top of that, the ignition module is north of $100 AND we kinda would like a set of MSD coils ($133).
Dang we must love Wednesday to keep throwing money at her like it was going out of style.... and we haven't even gotten to the pretty crap yet.....

AuSSenseiter

Not looking too bad! You would be amazed what a little buffing would do to the paint and bring back the gloss.

As for the tierod ends, if there is 1/2" of play, you are near the point where it falls apart!!!! Please replace it ASAP.

Advance auto sells the tierod for about $20. It is easy to change out, but a dirty job under the car. See http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/driveworks-steering-tie-rod-end-dw-ev116/15530152-P

Just my opinion - but the MSD coils for the ignition module are a waste of money on a non-turbocharged engine. A good set of stock style coils will take care of it quite nicely. I have had pretty good luck with the Borg Warner BWD coils.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-17-2015, 11:30 PM
As for the tierod ends, if there is 1/2" of play, you are near the point where it falls apart!!!! Please replace it ASAP.

Advance auto sells the tierod for about $20. It is easy to change out, but a dirty job under the car.

Since you make awesome videos, could you do one on rebuilding a rack? Or a write up? I've learned how to do it but never practiced it in a real car....
Not worried about doing it under the car as it's easy enough to yank out.

AuSSenseiter

Keiths1976
12-18-2015, 12:59 AM
I think David did on one of his videos somewhere lol hopefully he chimes in soon

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-19-2015, 01:44 AM
Tonight's update is a rant so consider yourselves warned.......
A bodied cars SUCK when it comes to off roading!!!!!!! Was running some errands and on the way back, I decided to short cut through the woods. Done it a thousand times before, no problem. Figured since it had lightly rained the dust and ruts would be smoother. Big f'ing mistake. Came on a mini lake, and couldn't see any way around it so I took what I thought would be the best side. Made it most the way across but then the car just stopped. Water up to the bumpers and in the brake drums. Try to restart the car and only getting a click. I think we sucked water into the engine. Thankfully, once again, dad came to the rescue and drug us to his place with mommas s10 blazer.
Tomorrow we will take our nearly dead aerostar (front suspension issues) and assess the damage and take pics. I will warn you, they will be shocking and quite graphic so if you have a weak stomach don't look.
Hopefully we can yank the plugs and pump the water out, otherwise Wednesday will be taken off the road again until a new engine can be sourced in our budget (aka free, and we can barely afford that).

Good freaking night.....

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
12-19-2015, 10:01 AM
I think David did on one of his videos somewhere lol hopefully he chimes in soon

I did a write-up with pictures on both the pump and the steering gear. The problem with the A-body steering gear is they all have a defective design. There was no sleeve or bushing in the control valve area. This means the aluminum housing will be worn to the degree that new sealrings won't help the functioning of the unit. The remanufactured ones have a steel sleeve in the control valve area.

The pump is not hard to deal with, though.

Steering pump: http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?9876

Steering gear (from C/H car): http://www.a-body.net/forums/showthread.php?11326

Hope this helps!

turbokinetic
12-19-2015, 10:10 AM
I decided to short cut through the woods. Done it a thousand times before, no problem......

Not much I can say about that.

I would not take one of these cars thought water or any mud because it is very easy to damage the CV shafts and fill the other parts of the undercarriage with dirt and sand and grit. I can not understand why someone would take a risk of this level.


Hopefully we can yank the plugs and pump the water out, otherwise Wednesday will be taken off the road again until a new engine can be sourced in our budget (aka free, and we can barely afford that)....

Drain the oil out of the engine before you try to roll the crankshaft any whatsoever. Most of the water will have seeped down beside the pistons and gone into the oilpan by now. Drain the oil and see how much water comes out.

Take out the sparkplugs and turn the crank BY HAND with the oil plug removed. See if more water comes out the oil drain, as well as water coming out the sparkplug holes.

Next, re-fill the oil and change the filter. Only after that point, will you want to turn the starter and spin the engine. That should "blow" the remaining water out of the combustion chambers.

If the engine starts and runs normally, run it for about 5 minutes and keep checking the oil for signs of more water If may take a second oil change to get the water purged out of the engine.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-21-2015, 01:22 AM
First off, Wednesday is still alive. I think this will be the last time she will be going through the woods. Not because of the frail cv axles (never had that trouble with any x or a body), but the thought of killing the motor is a bit much for us. Weird though in that IF we still had the original intake, none of this trouble would have happened...
Next up is the recovery. I followed your instructions, turbo, with the addition of fogging the intake and cylinders with wd-40. First oil change didn't really show much. Cranked everything until it was spraying straight gas. Did a second oil change and it looked more like milkshake. new oil in and buttoned everything up (including new plugs at the concern of the wife) and went for the big start. Took a couple tries, but she came around and is running great.
OK, on to the pics. I do want to explain first that the sand and dirt build-up in the shots was NOT caused by our swimming lesson. It was caused by the tow vehicle breaking loose in another mini lake.
Again, I want to warn you to look away if you at all squeamish. These pics are disturbing and graphic.....

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115246.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115246.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115310.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115310.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115333.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115333.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115346.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115346.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115413.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115413.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115425.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115425.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_153541.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_153541.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115710.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115710.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115653.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_115653.jpg.html)

http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_132358.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20151219_132358.jpg.html)

The last shot is a sneak shot from the wife of me working hard to get Wednesday.....

On a brighter note, Christmas came early and the wife got Wednesday a half din depth mp3 & fm receiver and connectors. Cant wait to get the radio in the center console.... :D


AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
12-21-2015, 08:28 AM
Glad you got her started up! Hopefully there's no damage.

You may want to check the transmission oil, too. There's a chance it could have taken on some water.

Century7667
12-22-2015, 02:01 AM
I was warned. It was hard to look at that poor VR in such a state!

Ken T.

turbokinetic
12-23-2015, 11:34 PM
The CV axles aren't exactly "frail" but if mud dries up around the boots, you can rip up the boots when you move them after the mud dries. Then if that happens, all kinds of dirt and grit goes into the joint and it will wear out really fast.

If you wash it out while the mud is still soft, it's no problem. This is a bad thing you had happen - but it appears you got lucky (or watched out for!) :) The muddy front end is nothing a pressure washer can't take care of.

I wasn't there so I shouldn't really say this - but I have to wonder what convinced you to try and ford the flooded area? I just can't understand why this seemed like the best way at the time. It seems like a huge risk just to save a few minutes.

When I was younger (highschool) my friend and I took his 1988 LeSabre sedan down "Cade Road" in Bolivar county, Mississippi. It looked like a good shortcut on the map. Boy were we wrong! The road started to get soft and the car was getting sideways. We stopped and tried to back out, but got bogged down to the frame. Before the car was out, we had screwed up the cross shaft in the differential by spinning one wheel too much, overheated the engine until one end blew off the radiator, and got the engine, body, and entire interior of the car covered in mud. Then later on, both outer CV joints failed because the boots were ripped and filled with dirt and grit. It was about a $2500 screwup by the time it was all said and done.

Sincerely,
David

Century7667
12-26-2015, 01:34 PM
When I was not much older, I learned that driving through high water at high speed wasn't a good idea, even if you have a truck. My engine quit in my '76 Chevy after I loaded the filter element with water. I was lucky I didn't hydrolock the engine!

I bet some one's parents were a bit angry when the '88 LeSabre met mud. Did that car ever drive again?

Ken T.

turbokinetic
12-26-2015, 02:24 PM
When I was not much older, I learned that driving through high water at high speed wasn't a good idea, even if you have a truck. My engine quit in my '76 Chevy after I loaded the filter element with water. I was lucky I didn't hydrolock the engine!

I bet some one's parents were a bit angry when the '88 LeSabre met mud. Did that car ever drive again?

Ken T.

You have to understand, the car HAD to drive again because it was my friend's only car. We were not the give-me generation, where mom and dad could afford (or would be willing to) replace a car just because we did something foolish and tried to drive it out of deep mud.

His mom was upset about it but she believed the (true) story that he thought that was a good shortcut. It was not intentional and once was enough!

We stopped trying to drive out of the mud once the radiator blew. After changing it, the car ran again. But during the weeks that followed, the CV shafts failed. When we removed the CV shafts, it was apparent that the final drive was damaged; and the transmission required rebuild.

Century7667
12-26-2015, 11:43 PM
You have to understand, the car HAD to drive again because it was my friend's only car. We were not the give-me generation, where mom and dad could afford (or would be willing to) replace a car just because we did something foolish and tried to drive it out of deep mud.

His mom was upset about it but she believed the (true) story that he thought that was a good shortcut. It was not intentional and once was enough!

We stopped trying to drive out of the mud once the radiator blew. After changing it, the car ran again. But during the weeks that followed, the CV shafts failed. When we removed the CV shafts, it was apparent that the final drive was damaged; and the transmission required rebuild.

No give-me generation here either. After I totaled my sweet '76 Chevy C-10, I had to buy a $200 '77 Pontiac Ventura (then a 12 year old car). It was quite a step down, and very humbling, but I didn't have the money to get back to where I was.

Wow, that car was really hurting! A good learning experience for sure. Did you guys attempt the trans-axle overhaul yourselves at that time?

Ken T.

turbokinetic
12-27-2015, 01:08 AM
No give-me generation here either. After I totaled my sweet '76 Chevy C-10, I had to buy a $200 '77 Pontiac Ventura (then a 12 year old car). It was quite a step down, and very humbling, but I didn't have the money to get back to where I was.

Wow, that car was really hurting! A good learning experience for sure. Did you guys attempt the trans-axle overhaul yourselves at that time?

Ken T.

That is a shame about the Chevy C-10. :(

We did repair the transmission. That being an original 440T4, it had to be completely gutted and the final drive was the last thing out and the first thing to go in!

Century7667
12-28-2015, 02:23 PM
That is a shame about the Chevy C-10. :(

We did repair the transmission. That being an original 440T4, it had to be completely gutted and the final drive was the last thing out and the first thing to go in!

The C-10 still hurts to this day. Bought it for $1,400 back in 1984 with 69,000 miles on it. It was my father's, and had been well maintained since it had 30,000 when he bought it from the original owner. Perfect paint, perfect interior. I totaled the truck hydroplaning on an overpass. :( A young man sometimes has to learn his lessons the HARD way. That's the way it was for me. Let's say that I'm a real good in wet weather driving, too bad I had to pay such a high price to gain such skill.

That 440T4 has to be pretty early in your career, was it your first?

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-29-2015, 12:53 AM
Wow, ya'll got some scary stories! Glad Wednesday didn't suffer any more than she did! No water in the tranny, thankfully. What motivated me to take the trails isn't as important as the little fact I forgot. With the cold air intake, the air filter sits on the subframe and therefore more prone to water and debris.... Live and learn I guess.

Does anyone remember on the first page I posted about the "hearse appearance package". Well, its no longer just an appearance package. Last week at 3:30am, on her way to work, momma struck a 2nd deer in as many weeks with her Saturn. We got the text at 5am and immediately went for the road kill. Even though my wife wouldn't help load the doe, she did help when we were skinning it out. Got the hide, legs and head. the rest wasn't saveable.

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
12-29-2015, 12:54 PM
Wow, ya'll got some scary stories! Glad Wednesday didn't suffer any more than she did! No water in the tranny, thankfully. What motivated me to take the trails isn't as important as the little fact I forgot. With the cold air intake, the air filter sits on the subframe and therefore more prone to water and debris.... Live and learn I guess.

Does anyone remember on the first page I posted about the "hearse appearance package". Well, its no longer just an appearance package. Last week at 3:30am, on her way to work, momma struck a 2nd deer in as many weeks with her Saturn. We got the text at 5am and immediately went for the road kill. Even though my wife wouldn't help load the doe, she did help when we were skinning it out. Got the hide, legs and head. the rest wasn't saveable.

AuSSenseiter

Lucky your mom wasn't hurt when she hit that deer. That is always a bad situation. I have hit two of them. One in an 86 Century, and one in a medium-duty truck. Needless to say, the truck fared much better than the car did! Both deer were killed, but the car required about $1000 to fix.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-30-2015, 11:50 PM
Yeah, she was lucky but the damage is pretty extensive. Had to put it 2 claims, so now her car is getting new bumper, grill, hood, both front fender, passenger door (complete), and some other stuff. Thankfully none of the airbags blew.... So now shes driving a crappy cruze rental. Total garbage! Feels like your riding Styrofoam. Even though its got a turbo 4, it sucks. Itty bitty turbo that doesn't come on until 3k rpm. The only redeeming thing about it, is that it will rev to 6k. But even then you cant feel it. Even sadder still, driving that turd makes me yearn for my 1981 citation x11. It would easily rev to 6k and you KNEW it! 4 speed that would bark 'em in 3 gears, oh yea.... and the cowl induction that would scream so loud, you would seriously come to think the motor was going to eat the windshield.....
Sorry, I'm drooling. Cars today just suck. I guess its true that the a-body was the last true great car......

AuSSenseiter

Century7667
12-31-2015, 12:23 AM
Yeah, she was lucky but the damage is pretty extensive. Had to put it 2 claims, so now her car is getting new bumper, grill, hood, both front fender, passenger door (complete), and some other stuff. Thankfully none of the airbags blew.... So now shes driving a crappy cruze rental. Total garbage! Feels like your riding Styrofoam. Even though its got a turbo 4, it sucks. Itty bitty turbo that doesn't come on until 3k rpm. The only redeeming thing about it, is that it will rev to 6k. But even then you cant feel it. Even sadder still, driving that turd makes me yearn for my 1981 citation x11. It would easily rev to 6k and you KNEW it! 4 speed that would bark 'em in 3 gears, oh yea.... and the cowl induction that would scream so loud, you would seriously come to think the motor was going to eat the windshield.....
Sorry, I'm drooling. Cars today just suck. I guess its true that the a-body was the last true great car......

AuSSenseiter

An era gone by. Now WE know how the guys who grew up on the 60's felt! Everything is so disposable now. :(

Ken T.

turbokinetic
12-31-2015, 12:59 AM
..... crappy cruze rental. Total garbage! Feels like your riding Styrofoam. Even though its got a turbo 4, it sucks. Itty bitty turbo that doesn't come on until 3k rpm....

Yeah - now a days they use a turbo to make a toy lawnmower engine capable of marginally moving a car. Back in the day, a turbocharger was fitted to make a medium size engine take you straight to the moon!


... makes me yearn for my 1981 citation x11. It would easily rev to 6k and you KNEW it! 4 speed that would bark 'em in 3 gears, oh yea.... and the cowl induction that would scream so loud, you would seriously come to think the motor was going to eat the windshield.....
Sorry, I'm drooling. Cars today just suck. I guess its true that the a-body was the last true great car......

Yeah - I tend to agree with you. I will add that the A and the C/H cars together are the last of the real American cars. By that, I mean the last of the spirit that started in the 60's when cars were becoming more powerful while at the same time reliable. If you had a 60's car you could sit down in an A car and see what was what and the shifter looked like a shifter, the gauges looked like what you expect, there was nothing that was "incomprehensible" moving from a 60's car to an A car. There is some continuity of design through them. The steering column, several electrical components, HVAC, and the general feel of the cars has some heritage back that far. Going from a 60's car to a new car would be culture shock and you might not even figure out how to start it.

Century7667
12-31-2015, 02:11 AM
Culture shock. Yeah, I'll never forget the time I shot out of the parking garage in Milwaukee into snowing weather in a new small sized GM product....only to not have a clue as to how to run the HVAC. The controls were a mess! AND, they required you to take your eyes off the road. The a-car, and let's throw in the S10 as well (which has G-body heritage: power recirculating ball steering, suspension, etc.) have simple and effective HVAC controls that you can operate w/o taking your eyes off the road!

Ken T.

turbokinetic
12-31-2015, 01:13 PM
Culture shock. Yeah, I'll never forget the time I shot out of the parking garage in Milwaukee into snowing weather in a new small sized GM product....only to not have a clue as to how to run the HVAC. The controls were a mess! AND, they required you to take your eyes off the road. The a-car, and let's throw in the S10 as well (which has G-body heritage: power recirculating ball steering, suspension, etc.) have simple and effective HVAC controls that you can operate w/o taking your eyes off the road!

Ken T.

Yeah I hear ya about the HVAC controls! The older cars such as the G body and our A cars definitely have easier HVAC to operate (and work on!). I have never had problems with an A-car HVAC beyond changing a heater core or a blower motor or other small parts like that. All aspects of that system are mechanical and manual (other than the refrigerant gas pressure switches).

My 87 Park Avenue Coupe has the Mr. Fancy Pants Electronic Climate Control system. It has a mind of its own and even though I have the FSM and have done all the tests - it still continues to baffle me with strange problems. I want the PA to stay looking as original as possible - or I would replace that control head with a standard one. But I want the PA to stay like it is.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
01-01-2016, 01:11 AM
First off, the wife and I would like to thank everyone for the help over the past year with Wednesday. May the next year be a blessing to you, your family, and your a-bodies.

Today was a happy and sad day. Paid off the auto parts store and within a half hour ran up another $500 bill! And we are not done yet. Wednesday is getting her share of goodies with the rest going towards our aerostar. The aerostar is a thread unto itself but for the current, we are rebuilding the entire front end/ suspension and attempting to lift it 2" so we can run 16" commercial wheels/ tires. The reason I bring a ferd turd into a VR conversation is they both are getting new steering racks. Whats funny is that the core charge for Wednesdays rack is $18, Stars rack core charge is $90!!!! Needless to say, we are keeping Wednesdays rack.....

Other new years treats for Wednesday including some detailing stuff, ignition control module, belt and tensioner (current tensioner is "clicking"), antifreeze, and other stuff. One thing I'm really looking forward is installing the new horns! Advance had several in clearance and they rung up for a dollar or less so we bought 'em all...... Of course that means Wednesdays header panel has to come off again, but having WORKING horns is a major plus!

I will close this update by also telling of the new antenna extension cord, so Wednesday may soon have tunes again.....

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
01-01-2016, 01:47 PM
First off, the wife and I would like to thank everyone for the help over the past year with Wednesday. May the next year be a blessing to you, your family, and your a-bodies.

Thanks, same to you and hope that 2016 is very prosperous for all!


Today was a happy and sad day. Paid off the auto parts store and within a half hour ran up another $500 bill! And we are not done yet. Wednesday is getting her share of goodies with the rest going towards our aerostar. The aerostar is a thread unto itself but for the current, we are rebuilding the entire front end/ suspension and attempting to lift it 2" so we can run 16" commercial wheels/ tires. The reason I bring a ferd turd into a VR conversation is they both are getting new steering racks. Whats funny is that the core charge for Wednesdays rack is $18, Stars rack core charge is $90!!!! Needless to say, we are keeping Wednesdays rack.....

Wow at the ErrorStar steering rack core charge. There must be a high demand for those!

I just ordered a reman AC Delco for my 84 Olympia, from Rock Auto. The core charge was $10 so it's not worth the postage to return the old one. It looks like a nice piece, but haven't driven the car with it yet. The only thing I can say is, they included incorrect O-rings for the line fittings.


Other new years treats for Wednesday including some detailing stuff, ignition control module, belt and tensioner (current tensioner is "clicking"), antifreeze, and other stuff. One thing I'm really looking forward is installing the new horns! Advance had several in clearance and they rung up for a dollar or less so we bought 'em all...... Of course that means Wednesdays header panel has to come off again, but having WORKING horns is a major plus!

LOL I think none of my cars have a working horn. :) It has not been an issue for me. If someone doesn't go and you horn at them - it only makes them sit there longer, with head swiveling around like a confused turkey searching for the source of raindrops.... only to take off halfway through the yellow light and make you sit through another cycle.

Seriously though - there is nothing like the original Delco Remy dual electromagnetic horn system. I read that GM had a copyright / patent on the sound of the Delco horns, and that you will never find an aftermarket horn that sounds exactly the same. I believe this is true. On cars where I have replaced the horns, I ended up getting them from late model / low mileage salvage cars. They still use the same horn IFAIK.


I will close this update by also telling of the new antenna extension cord, so Wednesday may soon have tunes again.....

Got to have tunes! And there is a difference in 'tunes' as in what we like to listen to... and TUNEZ which is a collection of mismatched audio equipment that cost 5x the value of the car and makes so much vibration that huge sheets of bondo fall off the car in large chunks!

Century7667
01-02-2016, 03:34 PM
Seriously though - there is nothing like the original Delco Remy dual electromagnetic horn system. I read that GM had a copyright / patent on the sound of the Delco horns, and that you will never find an aftermarket horn that sounds exactly the same. I believe this is true. On cars where I have replaced the horns, I ended up getting them from late model / low mileage salvage cars. They still use the same horn IFAIK.



When I purchased my '95 used 7 years ago, I'll never forget the first time I attempted to use the horn. I had someone with me in the car, and when I pressed the horn button, it sounded like.....a strangled calf. :sad: I was so embarrassed. I told my passenger, "I'm gonna fix that!"

I wanted original GM horns, which I have found to be impressive since my original 1976 Chevy. What I didn't know is, they are tuned! I can't recall exactly, but C, A, and I believe E or G were available. So, if you had dual horns, you had options on how they were to sound. With two horns, you can form what I believe would be called an open chord. With a C-G, which I believe is an open 5th (a power chord I think) you can get someone's attention. I was pretty impressed!

The original owner butchered the wiring harness. I repaired the harness, pitched the pathetic horn, and replaced it and the remaining dead horn with new units. Now if I need to warn someone, I have a way of getting their attention...rather than having people look at the car and laugh at it.

Ken T.

SexySilhouette
01-03-2016, 12:54 AM
Yeah, deer suck! This was a near mint Roadmaster.

Before:
http://i66.tinypic.com/28hddh1.jpg

2 hours later:
http://i67.tinypic.com/2r4q6bl.jpg

Keiths1976
01-03-2016, 02:48 AM
Oh crap :(

turbokinetic
01-03-2016, 03:46 AM
This was a freshly repainted Century - literally used it 2 days after paint.
http://i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo192/turbokinetic/T_Type_Deer_FUBAR.jpg (http://s375.photobucket.com/user/turbokinetic/media/T_Type_Deer_FUBAR.jpg.html)

Broad daylight, about 09:30 in 4 lanes of traffic. Hit the deer at about 60 MPH.

85_Ciera_Rebuild
01-03-2016, 11:47 PM
Again, I want to warn you to look away if you at all squeamish. These pics are disturbing and graphic.....

Why heck, that's normal after a rain where I live on real country roads

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/englander23/Capture_zpsj2abfxca.png

Here's a truck with "Super Singles."

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc139/englander23/Capture_zpsbvmlyrfa.png

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
01-04-2016, 01:53 AM
Ahhh but what a wonderful weather we are having down here in florida.... cold, overcast, rainy.... florida cold = a high in the low 50's.....
But this update is rockin!! Well, kinda. Was over at a friend's who happens to be decent with wiring. After helping him clear a spot in his garage, we pulled Wednesday in and barely had room to open the doors cause of the rain. Pulled the center console bin and used a soldering pen to burn a hole in the side for the wires. Primitive but effective. After that Jaime took the rest of the console apart and bundled up a bunch of wires to make a clean transition from the console to the dash. Pulling them through was certainly interesting!!!
So now the radio somewhat works. Because the "powered" antenna isn't getting power, radio stations kinda come and go & the volume is in constant need of adjustment . We only wired the front speakers 'cuz that's all we got at the moment.
The connections were not the best so I'll have to go back in and solder everything but, hey, at least it's some noise......

AuSSenseiter

P.s. thx baby for the radio Christmas present...

85_Ciera_Rebuild
01-04-2016, 03:33 AM
Broad daylight, about 09:30

Sidebar - 5/14/13 - Deer crashes into bus
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1m-K1D_uQs)

Century7667
01-05-2016, 02:31 AM
Yeah I hear ya about the HVAC controls! The older cars such as the G body and our A cars definitely have easier HVAC to operate (and work on!). I have never had problems with an A-car HVAC beyond changing a heater core or a blower motor or other small parts like that. All aspects of that system are mechanical and manual (other than the refrigerant gas pressure switches).

My 87 Park Avenue Coupe has the Mr. Fancy Pants Electronic Climate Control system. It has a mind of its own and even though I have the FSM and have done all the tests - it still continues to baffle me with strange problems. I want the PA to stay looking as original as possible - or I would replace that control head with a standard one. But I want the PA to stay like it is.

You are so right! Can't beat those old dependable systems. They are analog by nature, and so are people!

...and those numbers for temperature...I doubt if they are legit. Just give me a knob or a slider. The fancy pants controls look impressive, but when you just want to drive.....no thanks.

Ken T.

Century7667
01-05-2016, 02:33 AM
Ahhh but what a wonderful weather we are having down here in florida.... cold, overcast, rainy.... florida cold = a high in the low 50's.....
But this update is rockin!! Well, kinda. Was over at a friend's who happens to be decent with wiring. After helping him clear a spot in his garage, we pulled Wednesday in and barely had room to open the doors cause of the rain. Pulled the center console bin and used a soldering pen to burn a hole in the side for the wires. Primitive but effective. After that Jaime took the rest of the console apart and bundled up a bunch of wires to make a clean transition from the console to the dash. Pulling them through was certainly interesting!!!
So now the radio somewhat works. Because the "powered" antenna isn't getting power, radio stations kinda come and go & the volume is in constant need of adjustment . We only wired the front speakers 'cuz that's all we got at the moment.
The connections were not the best so I'll have to go back in and solder everything but, hey, at least it's some noise......

AuSSenseiter

P.s. thx baby for the radio Christmas present...

Yeah, you got the weather we had a few days back. It was fun, and very wet!

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
01-12-2016, 01:22 AM
Alrighty folks, time for another update on one of GM's rarest cars ever...... Its looking a lot like Wednesday will be going under the knife again. Not a bad thing. Been gathering parts and ordering more. Today we ordered new KYB struts for the front (only $35 each) and new Moog springs ($40 pair). Also got new 14" tires ($44 each, new, at Walmart). Already got a new steering rack and, yes, I checked to make sure its a F41 rack.
When Wednesday is done with this round of surgery, she should be mechanically restored with only minor tweaks needed. Then we wait until the major rebuilds are required. But before we get carried away with those dreams, we gotta start working on the pretty...


AuSSeneiter

Drop Top Olds
01-12-2016, 05:12 PM
Should grab the strut mounts from Rock Auto while they last. At $0.44 each you can't let that deal slip by.

Century7667
01-12-2016, 11:56 PM
I got mine coming!

;)

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
01-13-2016, 03:44 PM
Yup, got those coming as well, posted in that thread and didn't want to be redundant.

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
01-25-2016, 09:28 PM
Well, tonight there isn't much to report but yesterday got a chance to put one strut assembly together. Still waiting for the other strut as the store manager ordered only 1 when I needed 2. Getting closer to Wednesdays surgery.... Don't know for certain as the date as theres a lot going on right now (rebuilding the aerostar front end, buying a house, helping get dads place ready for grandmas vacation, working a native American booth, keeping Wednesday going, and that's just the tip of the iceburg....)
Proud to announce that I will have a new assistant for Wednesdays pending surgery. Besides the wife, my cousin Jake (from state farm, lol) has agreed to help. Even though he drives a rusting, hes eager to learn how to work on REAL cars. His heart is definitely in the right place as he told me the other day that he saw a car that's just like ours, but not. Turns out he saw an olds ciera wagon, newer year.

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
02-06-2016, 08:30 PM
Got another stupid question for ya'll, I need to figure out how to repair the front red stripe on the drivers font fender. It's cracked along the top edge and kinda flapping. As a temporary fix, we've got the only VR with Gran Sport racing stripes. Yup, Wednesday is being held together with electrical tape complimented by a 200mph tape stripe...... :(

AuSSenseiter

86euro
02-09-2016, 12:57 AM
Might be able to fix it with some kind of epoxy, after "V"-ing out the crack along the topside. The bumper cover doesn't fully fill up the gap on the inside, so there should be room for some extra epoxy up in there. For some added strength basically. Or if you can locate a broken door piece (that is otherwise useless for that application), you can cut it down to make a new fender piece. I made one of my quarter panel pieces out of a LR door piece that had the end broke off.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-06-2016, 01:45 AM
Well, sad to say but Wednesday has decided that tomorrow is the day when her surgery is to begin. For the last couple weeks she's developed an appetite for p/s fluid. To the tune of half a quart a day! And well, its coated the cat bad enough to start smoking. Definitely not a good thing when you live in the woods and park on dry leaves!!! Nor do I enjoy buying fluid by the case...
So prayers and wishes appreciated. Hope we have all the parts.
Couldn't happen at a better time. Our wonderful errorstar needing front suspension work (that was *supposed* to be our back up vehicle while Wednesday was down) and quotes coming in at north of $500, YIKES!!! So now shes going to get broken down and we get to pitch a tent in dads yard. Joy...
Pics will come and a surprise is in store for a-body.net that will be sticky worthy....

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
03-15-2016, 01:43 PM
Well, sad to say but Wednesday has decided that tomorrow is the day when her surgery is to begin. For the last couple weeks she's developed an appetite for p/s fluid. To the tune of half a quart a day! And well, its coated the cat bad enough to start smoking. Definitely not a good thing when you live in the woods and park on dry leaves!!! Nor do I enjoy buying fluid by the case...
So prayers and wishes appreciated. Hope we have all the parts.
Couldn't happen at a better time. Our wonderful errorstar needing front suspension work (that was *supposed* to be our back up vehicle while Wednesday was down) and quotes coming in at north of $500, YIKES!!! So now shes going to get broken down and we get to pitch a tent in dads yard. Joy...
Pics will come and a surprise is in store for a-body.net that will be sticky worthy....

AuSSenseiter

Glad you're getting the steering gear change done! I have done these only with the engine out of the car, and even then it required removal of the rear subframe mount bolts and lowering the subframe with a jack.

The line fittings can be hard to break out if they are original. The o-ring seals the oil at the tip of the line. Therefore, the threaded part of the fitting is exposed to the environment. That lets moisture and corrosion seep in around the threads, reacting between the steel fitting and aluminum housing. The result can be the destruction of the lines or steering gear housing during removal. :(

It's a good idea to coat the threads of the fitting with high temperature grease so that the grease will stay on the threads, and prevent water from having a place to seep in.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-19-2016, 02:53 AM
Aaahhh, finally back to where I can post.... Anybody up for an update?
Today we finished the major disassembly. But before we get ahead of ourselves....
Up to this point, I've been working on 4 vehicles at the same time, plus working on dad's place and doctors..... The list goes on and you can plainly see time has been short. To spare you the details, I'll focus on Wednesday.
First, a MAJOR thanks goes out to turbokenetic!!!!!! The a/c & heater never worked on Wednesday so we just used the vent. Well, part of the breaking down included pulling the blower motor. Just as shown in turbos videos, the blower box was slap jam packed in leaves and debris. There were even leaves inside the cage! Nearly filled a Walmart shopping bag with crap. Sliced the heck out of my elbow cleaning the box but well worth it.
Since we took the cowl panel off, the seam sealer will all replaced and the rest of the area repainted.
When I reinstall the steering gear, I will be using A/C Delco thread sealant. All the fluid hoses will be replaced (again....) and this time I am using fuel injection clamps. Well worth the extra money.
Next on the list is going to be a very thorough detailing followed up with some corrosion control. Then the new suspension and steering and other new goodies start getting put on....
Yes there are pics, but it's too late to post now......

AuSSenseiter

turbokinetic
03-19-2016, 04:36 AM
Nice to see that Wednesday is getting some attention! Also happy that you found my A/C cleanout video helpful. Aside from having a better air conditioner, it will help prevent any accidental car fires! Nobody likes an unexpected Car-B-Que! :)

Hope to see your picts soon!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:06 AM
Pic's... First off is Wednesday's tribute to turbokenetic:
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124749_zpso6g4mulh.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124749_zpso6g4mulh.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124753_zpsharpff8h.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124753_zpsharpff8h.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120634_zpsrwv9v3ja.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120634_zpsrwv9v3ja.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120625_zps3i7czvmj.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120625_zps3i7czvmj.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:09 AM
Early disassembly,
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_115502_zpsfo0k8fsq.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_115502_zpsfo0k8fsq.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_115551_zps0yr6etjw.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_115551_zps0yr6etjw.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_115601_zpsuezja31w.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_115601_zpsuezja31w.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120328_zpskmq3nfeb.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120328_zpskmq3nfeb.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:13 AM
Random pics
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120615_zpsph8lzdly.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_120615_zpsph8lzdly.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_122128_zpsudpyeapw.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_122128_zpsudpyeapw.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124736_zps0hkyeheu.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124736_zps0hkyeheu.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_134058_zpsfsrsijtg.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_134058_zpsfsrsijtg.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_134104_zps8dzkfdfd.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_134104_zps8dzkfdfd.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_134115_zpsqayp33vf.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_134115_zpsqayp33vf.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:22 AM
In this message, I found this strange connector that doesn't go to anything. It's in the power pack on the drivers side strut tower. Any guess's?
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143224_zpsbzgcip8f.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143224_zpsbzgcip8f.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143252_zpsknqhnuiu.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143252_zpsknqhnuiu.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143237_zpscqmx7hme.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143237_zpscqmx7hme.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143258_zpsjmzemasp.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143258_zpsjmzemasp.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:25 AM
Coils and module
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152823_zpszc2gvupl.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152823_zpszc2gvupl.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152830_zpsrizlsh3i.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152830_zpsrizlsh3i.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152840_zpsysrxqvmi.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152840_zpsysrxqvmi.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:35 AM
Sans suspension;
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160317_185421_zpsqlvztrzk.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160317_185421_zpsqlvztrzk.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160317_185410_zpsnfuvwf2d.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160317_185410_zpsnfuvwf2d.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 12:37 AM
More pics
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152904_zpshgnopfao.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152904_zpshgnopfao.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152853_zpsip309qzz.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_152853_zpsip309qzz.jpg.html)
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160317_185434_zpsw83yzjrv.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160317_185434_zpsw83yzjrv.jpg.html)

turbokinetic
03-20-2016, 03:20 PM
Pic's... First off is Wednesday's tribute to turbokenetic:
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124749_zpso6g4mulh.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_124749_zpso6g4mulh.jpg.html)

WOW!!!! YOU WIN!!! I've never seen one that bad before! :jawdrop:


Very fortunate you are, not to have had a Car-B-Que happen because of that!

The after-cleaning pictures look SO MUCH better. But I have a question because that level of debris should not have been able to get in there. Is there a chance that you're missing the screen from the bottom of the fiberglass cowl panel (below the windshield)? Also, there's supposed to be a strip of rubber at the rear edge of this part, to keep leaves etc. from falling down between the glass and the cowl panel.


In this message, I found this strange connector that doesn't go to anything. It's in the power pack on the drivers side strut tower. Any guess's?
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143224_zpsbzgcip8f.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160306_143224_zpsbzgcip8f.jpg.html)

YES! That is where the MAF sensor power relay was connected. The relay was removed when the car had its speed-density conversion.

Hope the steering gear install went smoothly!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 04:02 PM
The screen is actually in place below the cowl panel. Would like to find the clips that hold it in place so I can paint it. As far as the double sided sticky rubber tape, it is there but it was in such bad shape..... Any ideas where I can get a replacement strip?
Because of all the debris, the seam sealer inside the cowl panel/ firewall has crumbled to nothing, so that's on the list of things to be taken care of as well.

Ray_McAvoy
03-20-2016, 07:39 PM
WOW!!!! YOU WIN!!! I've never seen one that bad before! :jawdrop:

Very fortunate you are, not to have had a Car-B-Que happen because of that!

I agree ... definitely got lucky on that not catching fire! I can't say as I've ever seen one packed that full of leaves & debris either!

Although there was this one time I pulled a squirrel nest (complete with 3 babies) out of the hvac blower housing on a Buick Park Avenue. Momma squirrel wasn't too happy about her nest being removed :)



Any ideas where I can get a replacement strip?

Some "camper tape" ... the stuff auto parts stores sell for sealing between pick-up truck beds & camper tops would probably make a suitable replacement. I believe the thickness is similar to the foam rubber seal that was used on these cowl panels. It's about double the original width but I don't think that will interfere with anything (if it does you could cut it down the middle).

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
03-20-2016, 09:01 PM
Yea, I'm a bit surprised too. But then again, I knew that the system never worked and wasn't stupid enough to push it.
Ray, funny you should mention camper tape. Last year I bought some out of the clearance bin at the auto parts store. Complete with 1/4" of dust.....

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-20-2016, 11:39 PM
So its been about 2 months since any work has been done on the VR, but we are BACK!!!! Wednesday got sidelined because of an 01 chev box truck that needed sever repairs and a looming trip to ohio. Those repairs literally took up until the day we left. No test drives, no shake down, just go. Talk about pressure.....
One time I did have a small chance to look at at the car and snap a couple pics. Sad really.....
The last couple days have been spent repainting the sub frame and the core support where the headlights go. Much prettier. Also was able to clean some of the aluminum bits with the ZEP cleaner. Works good enough, I guess. Hopefully tomorrow we will get the steering gear in and a few other tid bits.
Pics coming soon

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
05-28-2016, 10:54 PM
OK, folks, progress has been made!!! Got the struts put together. 1 came out great, the other had the mounting plate installed 180* out. Easy fix. Those have been mocked up and work out fine. The steering rack was another issue. For some reason I havent figured out, the steering gear and the rear tranny mount wouldnt play nice together, so I had to use a dremel and grind the mount back some.
Today we got the steering rack in and loosely bolted together. Things are starting to look like a car again but thats a long way off.....

AuSSenseiter

Century7667
05-30-2016, 08:23 PM
Pics?

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
06-03-2016, 11:21 PM
Of course, Ken, there will be pics. Just not yet...... Tonights episode includes getting a new electric impact gun from HF!! Also, we got the harmonic balancer off and the rest of the engine degreased. Going to order a new front main seal as PM since its easy to get to. Will need a new engine mount as well....
Since the HB is off, can anyone recommend a good performance new HB? Just outa curiosity, Are there any performance underdrive pulley kits for the olld 2.8?
Made a stupid rookie mistake in having the struts assembled before having the upper rubbers and seats. So those had to get sent off again. Will be getting those back on Monday.
Started sanding the upper engine bay for repainting but need a lower grit sand paper to get much further....


To be continued......

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
06-08-2016, 03:14 AM
Finally, parts are going back on Wednesday!!! Today, my wonderful wifey assistant crawled under the car with me and together we got the new cat installed. Can't wait to hear what Wednesday is gonna sound like.
We got the struts today and mocked up one on the car. Can't really see the new red gators now, oh well.
Got a new front main seal and the new HB will be in tomorrow morning .

Until next time, stay tuned to the same VR channel.....

AuSSenseiter

Moonkilla1
06-08-2016, 01:45 PM
Finally, parts are going back on Wednesday!!! Today, my wonderful wifey assistant crawled under the car with me and together we got the new cat installed. Can't wait to hear what Wednesday is gonna sound like.
We got the struts today and mocked up one on the car. Can't really see the new red gators now, oh well.
Got a new front main seal and the new HB will be in tomorrow morning .

Until next time, stay tuned to the same VR channel.....

AuSSenseiter

did you weld the CAT on yourself or use a different method? did you just install it and now are taking it to be welded when its time? what size adaptors did you use for the ends of the cat to get it on the pipe? just wondering if this was hard for you to do.

cant wait till we see some pics, you have done a phenomenal job so far im surprised I haven't run into this thread until now! I am exited to follow you to the finish line sir :)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
06-08-2016, 02:23 PM
Moonkilla, welcome to the thread! Always exciting to have new people watching Wednesdays rebirth.
With the cat, I took the easy way out and bought a magna flow direct fit. Simple, easy, and it actually fit without much fuss. The mandrel bends are pretty too. Normally these things are around $160, but my parts guy got it down to $120 so we are happy and it beats the hell out of paying a hack job $50 to eliminate the cat.

AuSSenseiter

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-05-2016, 11:36 PM
Got the timing cover acid washed and sealed :) Next up is the drivers inner fender well that is nearly ready for paint.
Got a new "deadline" for Wednesday to be back together and road ready...... Halloween, 'cause we have been invited to Long Island, NY which means road trip.......

Keiths1976
07-06-2016, 12:16 AM
Sweet my home sweet home long island :-) where about ?

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-06-2016, 01:47 AM
Got some family in Deer Park and Riverhead. It would be great if this trip resulted in meeting some fellow A-body nuts.... that and Wednesday is already chomping at the bit to strut her stuff..... lol

Keiths1976
07-06-2016, 02:39 AM
Lol centereach and Was always at riverhead raceway lol . Wife and I lived in merrick for 3 years till 2005 then became Floridians. I know of one fellow a-body in New York but Catskills mountains .

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-06-2016, 03:45 PM
So where are you in Florida? Wednesdays home is in Inverness, south west of Ocala

Keiths1976
07-06-2016, 05:13 PM
Good old Florida for us is Delray beach east coast of Florida 35 min south of west palm beach . Funny we were in Orlando and Tampa over the past weekend were Busch gardens / seaworld fans .

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
07-06-2016, 06:57 PM
That's really cool!!! I used to go to b/g alot but now we are now 3+ hours (depending on traffic) north so.... but maybe a mini get together in Orlando could be fun during the off season.....

Keiths1976
07-06-2016, 07:01 PM
Sounds like a plan we do aquatica and sea world . We can arrange something for sure my friend Wednesday can meet my old girl :) . See her bigger 3100 sister lol

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 06:49 PM
Wow, July was the last post, amazing how quickly time fly's. Anyway, working on Wednesday in spurts. Got the heater lines repainted copper and the core support sanded and ready for paint. So much left to do...
Here's some pics to bring everyone up to date. Sorry for the many posts but the phone will only let me post 1at a time

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 06:53 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160703_134813_zpsjp95twsl.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160703_134813_zpsjp95twsl.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 06:55 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160703_141423_zpsroxmkx13.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160703_141423_zpsroxmkx13.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 06:56 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160821_153729_zpsfajvhajn.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160821_153729_zpsfajvhajn.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 06:58 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160821_160720_zpsvzrjvnjm.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160821_160720_zpsvzrjvnjm.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 06:59 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160821_160722_zpsuaxrvjy2.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160821_160722_zpsuaxrvjy2.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 07:01 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160821_153247_zpslhmviqco.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160821_153247_zpslhmviqco.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 07:03 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20160821_161142_zpsbalanrbq.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20160821_161142_zpsbalanrbq.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 07:05 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161008_180955_zps3y5npmdl.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161008_180955_zps3y5npmdl.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 07:08 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161008_182006_zpsapwhsfyi.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161008_182006_zpsapwhsfyi.jpg.html)

Could this be a source of a PITA coolant leak?

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 09:50 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161009_170952_zpsmioufvt6.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161009_170952_zpsmioufvt6.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 09:51 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161009_170944_zpsu2mbqgsv.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161009_170944_zpsu2mbqgsv.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 09:54 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161009_171022_zpsbcqxcmmn.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161009_171022_zpsbcqxcmmn.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 09:55 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161009_171030_zpskrdr0w6f.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161009_171030_zpskrdr0w6f.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 09:57 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161009_171044_zpsoaqn7olo.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161009_171044_zpsoaqn7olo.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 10:00 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160423_174013_zpscq3rnczs.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160423_174013_zpscq3rnczs.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-10-2016, 10:02 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160423_173946_zpsdpipqp4m.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160423_173946_zpsdpipqp4m.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-11-2016, 11:06 PM
Today's project was corrosion control on the heater box.
Enjoy, AuSSenseiterhttp://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161011_152236_zps95qfaiju.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161011_152236_zps95qfaiju.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-11-2016, 11:08 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161011_171959_zpsgbswbrcc.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161011_171959_zpsgbswbrcc.jpg.html)

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-11-2016, 11:09 PM
http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t646/maryjojrat/IMG_20161011_172747_zpspc2glfqn.jpg (http://s1318.photobucket.com/user/maryjojrat/media/IMG_20161011_172747_zpspc2glfqn.jpg.html)

Century7667
10-13-2016, 12:32 AM
Nice work! Does this copper paint have a special property? Just curious. I also wonder if the metal evaporator core boxes are interchangeable with the later plastic ones. Not sure which is better, but I am curious.

Ken T.

CorvairGeek
10-13-2016, 02:26 AM
Nice work! Does this copper paint have a special property? Just curious. I also wonder if the metal evaporator core boxes are interchangeable with the later plastic ones. Not sure which is better, but I am curious.

Ken T.

I had wondered about the difference between the metal and plastic too. Seems like there is something different besides the material, but I can't put my finger on it.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
10-13-2016, 03:50 PM
Nice work! Does this copper paint have a special property? Just curious. I also wonder if the metal evaporator core boxes are interchangeable with the later plastic ones. Not sure which is better, but I am curious.

Ken T.

There are nothing special about the copper paint, regular rust olium hammered. I mainly painted them for looks, something to break up the black on that side of the car. One thing I did do that's not pictured was lay down a coat of high heat flat aluminum first to kinda help protect the copper paint . Will finish it off with high heat clear after the hoses are replaced.
I have no idea on the boxes. Wednesdays is metal and there's no reason to break the seal so it's gonna get painted as is. Kinda hoping that the paint will act as a thermal barrier and make the HVAC system more efficient.

AuSSenseiter

Century7667
10-13-2016, 04:51 PM
Yeah, I can see where the metal box is just tougher, but the plastic is a natural insulator.

I love the old school look of the metal box though!

Ken T.

turbokinetic
10-17-2016, 01:42 PM
Yeah, I can see where the metal box is just tougher, but the plastic is a natural insulator.

I love the old school look of the metal box though!

Ken T.

I've never tried to interchange the plastic and metal boxes, however I suspect the plastic one would give better airflow. I have a feeling the shape of the interior of the box was probably updated to be more aerodynamic. But as said I don't know if they interchange or not; or what other parts would have to be kept with the new box for it to work.

My builds have always had the metal box. I've used a heavy coat of rubberized undercoating, and on another one a heavy coat of truck-bed coating. Those are both sound deadening and will give some slight thermal insulation.

Century7667
10-17-2016, 05:37 PM
I've never tried to interchange the plastic and metal boxes, however I suspect the plastic one would give better airflow. I have a feeling the shape of the interior of the box was probably updated to be more aerodynamic. But as said I don't know if they interchange or not; or what other parts would have to be kept with the new box for it to work.

My builds have always had the metal box. I've used a heavy coat of rubberized undercoating, and on another one a heavy coat of truck-bed coating. Those are both sound deadening and will give some slight thermal insulation.

Yeah, I was thinking about the heat your builds put out tremendous heat. I would imagine with the Buick mill in there, the rear bank is pretty close.

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-15-2016, 01:48 AM
Just thought I'd check in and let everyone know that Wednesday is fine despite being put on the back burner for awhile. Dads having problems keeping the dog in the yard so he has been pressuring me to dry fit everything so the car can be moved and his gate closed. Not sure how to proceed because everything is so fragile right now.... But it would be amazing to get a glimpse as to what she's gonna look like when she's done.....
Only thing really done on her lately was the addition of painters tape to the windshield because the tree she's parked under is getting a bit long in the branch.....

turbokinetic
12-15-2016, 01:43 PM
Just thought I'd check in and let everyone know that Wednesday is fine despite being put on the back burner for awhile. Dads having problems keeping the dog in the yard so he has been pressuring me to dry fit everything so the car can be moved and his gate closed. Not sure how to proceed because everything is so fragile right now.... But it would be amazing to get a glimpse as to what she's gonna look like when she's done.....
Only thing really done on her lately was the addition of painters tape to the windshield because the tree she's parked under is getting a bit long in the branch.....

Glad to see an update. I know how it goes when you got too many irons in the fire. Hope you can take advantage of the cooler weather to do some work on Wednesday!

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-28-2016, 12:50 AM
Still not much to report but did manage to get a little sanding done on the cowl compartment. Kinda surprising that they put the seam sealer over the primer.
Thinking of removing the wiper transmission for better access and easier painting. Opinions?
Next is everyone's favorite part, pics!
Wednesdays current condition
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155151.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155151.jpg.html)
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155233.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155233.jpg.html)
Primered heater box
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155225.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155225.jpg.html)
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155207.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155207.jpg.html)
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155216.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155216.jpg.html)

Does anyone know what these clips are called or have a source for them? They slide on the inside the fender and clip onto the cowl panel. They seem rather fragile as both of mine broke
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155405.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20161221_155405.jpg.html)
http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq181/AuBenseiter/20161221_155408.jpg (http://s446.photobucket.com/user/AuBenseiter/media/20161221_155408.jpg.html)

Century7667
12-30-2016, 03:16 PM
Very busy! Looks like you are hitting it from all angles at once!

For the clips, I could only suggest Dorman.

Ken T.

1987 Black VR wagon Fam
12-30-2016, 06:32 PM
Ken, alot is going on at once! With all the new parts, I decided that this will be the last major mechanical tear down. I want to finally be able to get to the pretty work!! Mechanically an suspension speaking, Wednesday will be basically a new car (engine excluded, of course)

Century7667
01-01-2017, 02:10 PM
Ken, alot is going on at once! With all the new parts, I decided that this will be the last major mechanical tear down. I want to finally be able to get to the pretty work!! Mechanically an suspension speaking, Wednesday will be basically a new car (engine excluded, of course)

Well, you are definitely doing the hard stuff. Just getting the parts can be a pain, let lone the work itself. Engines, if you are experienced, in my mind are easier to work on.

Ken T.