89 Cutlass Ciera Race Car Build

[Duke George V]

If it idles but dies as soon as you apply the throttle, it's likely the fuel pump. Crank sensor or ICM would cause a no start condition, while injectors would cause it to stall, then not start until they had cooled off. With as much abuse as you guys have given the car, I would just replace the pump.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

I have to agree with a fuel related problem..

Now this means that it could be a TPS sensor, a clogged fuel filter, or weak fuel pump, a bad fuel injector or something to that nature.. Sometimes injectors will work fine at the lowest pulse width, idle. but one the pulse speeds up, with the timing of the engine, they fail. OHM test the injectors, 11.9 or below is bad, 12.0 or higher is good. Check the fuel lines going into the throttle body, and see if any of them has gasoline in them. If they do, a bad fuel pressure regulator.

Also, it is true that a ICM module can test good, and be bad. 2 reasons. They usually only test bad when completely shorted out internally, or heat shorted out. A test will not get them up to the 200* that an engine bay will have. Tapping on it is a good idea as well, the test guy was doing it right.

Now on the coils, they to can test good, and be bad. Usually the ceramic/plastic coating on each spark plug wire thing is not cracked. These can sometimes crack when pulling off, or putting on wires. And it will imediately short. Normally I can hear the short "spark" when running. But your exhaust is kinda loud, and I couldnt hear it in that video.

Replacing the CPS sensor is probly not a bad idea, except if it breaks in the block, then your screwed..

[lemons bob]

The throttle thing it had actually started doing that day, which was odd, it would rev fine before that. Under load it would bog down horribly at around 70, if it shifted to 3rd it would be ok. but that was during the race and only after the car had run for 4 hours or so.

[occupant]

If you haven't already, grab the thickest set of sway bars you can find and go for the Accord strut idea. Anything you can do to eliminate the body roll and diving and plowing through the corners will shave tens of precious seconds off your lap times.

I second the Caddy V8 idea. If you can make it run cool enough, that is.

[lemons bob]

Well looks like we will work on it tomorrow, so Silentwing if you and Luke have nothing better to do we'll always welcome help, while we try and figure out whats going on with the car.

The current order of things is get the car running then work on the suspension. If the car doesn't run, the suspension won't matter, once it is running then there is no reason to add power until the car can at least handle what the car has now.

[Duke George V]

Have you guys found a final drive / transmission from a Fiero yet? The 3.33 ratio will really help with acceleration.

[lemons bob]

not yet, we'll have to see where the budget ends up.

[SilentWing]

Alright, Luke has to work tomorrow until noon then we have a couple of errands to run, but if you want to PM me we can set up a time to drop by. If you've still got access to a small compressor I'll have Luke bring his pressure cleaner for the fuel rail/injectors if you guys want to pick up a can of Seafoam from one of the generic auto parts stores we can run that. I'll also try to remember to bring the extra coils too so we can try that. If tomorrow afternoon is no good we can also come by on Sunday.

[lemons bob]

I'll see if we can get ahold of a compressor, I'll have to see if sunday will work. Was out of town for work all week so I'm still trying to figure out what is going on.

[SilentWing]

Ok, whenever you figure it out let me know. I'd gladly bring a compressor but the only one we have is Luke's 30-gallon tank monster.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

I would love to come work on this project. But, I dont get within 100 miles of Chicago without having a chaufer.. Hate that town (no offense)...

But that is a good point, a GX3 tranny (3.33 FD) would really help with your acceleration. Either that for a 4 speed manual.

If you do it, make sure its a 3 speed GX3. The 4 speed will blow on you, the FD clutch pack sucks. And with the tracks you are running, I doubt you would ever use OD.

I know I suggested the Honda front spring thing, and this idea really intrigues me. Please let me know how it goes. The only person I know that uses that idea is DavidsFarm on youtube. He does that to support the weight from his redneck rollercoaster with having 3 passengers over the front wheels..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgCc8fRdtGo

Notice how it doesnt sag with all that weight on the front end? In one of his other vids, he shows putting the Accord springs in. He puts the accord springs inside the stock spring. As you can see in the next auction...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/94-97...Q5fAccessories

The accord springs are much smaller circumfrence than the GM springs. This allows for you to more than double the spring rate on the front suspension. And they fit perfectly around the center shaft of the strust assembly. If I remember correctly, they are loose to give some for bumps, but anything more than 10* of deflection, and they were there.

On the rear, the Addco sway bar, and the rear springs from a U-Van would stiffen it up GREATLY..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1994-...item43a7428db5

That U-Van springs have to come from a van that looks like that.

Some 15 or 16 inch wheels, with some competition radials would help greatly! I imagine you are wanting to stay with steelies.. So I would say some steelies from a Pontiac Aztek, Buick Rendezvous, Pontiac SV6 or TransSport, Buick Terraza, Olds Silhouette, or something to that effect. Something to shorten the amount of sidewall, without taking it away for cornering aspects. Then some decent tires, Yokohama, Nitto, or something like that.

If you wanted to try some aluminum wheels to loose some weight, the same cars offer some great options.

Past that, I cant think of anything else that would help you with power, or speed, or suspension... (except maybe a supercharger, turbo charger, NOS, or something like that)

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Just got done watching the video of you vs the Fiero.. First, let me say that I am amazed that you can keep up with him, and even attempt to overtake. You weigh more, have worse gears, and have roughly the same HP and TQ.

I see a couple things going on.. First, might want to consider a big brake upgrade.. LOL, althou that sounds like a vid game term, it actually applies. I have heard thru the grape vine, that with a larger rim, you can put the front brakes off a older u-van, and it will be a basic direct bolt on, assuming you have the JA2 brake system. If you dont, I would suggest upgrading to them. I wonder if its possible to do the same on the rear.. We know that the rear disc's from a STE will work, but for your aplication, you want more of a severe duty brake, and the rear STE brakes are NOT them.

By the sounds of it, you have the 2.8 FI engine. Great engine, but they run out of breath in the upper RPM's. An adjustment to the detent cable to get it to shift at a bit lower RPM, where you have more TQ might help. Did yo install a large tranny cooler as well? Keeping those clutch bands cool is also going to help tremendously.

[lemons bob]

oh there is one thing you should know about the fiero, its not a 2.8, or even a 2.5 in there. They swapped in a 3800 in the back of that thing.

Brake wise we actually were having issues using the brakes we have. Once again I think it came down to the shocks, if we went on them hard the back end got out of sorts, even with that I still would out brake most cars on the front straight. The bigger brakes are something we might consider but alot of that has to do with wear than extra braking power. As it sits now the tires will meet their limits long before the brakes, until you start over heating them or wearing them out. From the first race we have little wear and we weren't even using racing compounds. We have 3 other compound options that would get us better wear, although I've heard with one of them that you have to , athough that might be to make sure you can keep heat in them.

BTW no comp tires, the rules have made it so you can't get them.

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

No comp radials huh?

Sounds like the perfect time to break out some Yokohama AS430 Tires.. I use these on my Turbo, and I love them. Not comp radials, just some All Seasons I beleive..

But I beleive getting your front end to level out is going to help greatly in the corners, and on your tail end getting loose. A car that plows takes the angle away from the car that the rear brakes need to operate. This is why on the older Ford Taurus's, they put in a suspension controlled rear brake proportioning valve.

But if you level out the angle of the car in a hard brake, it will have the same effect. FE3 main spring, and those Accord inner springs..

[Pontiac6ksteawd]

Just did some checking around. I can get the Accord springs for 15 bucks. The U-Van springs for 15. A set of coil/ignition modules for 25 bucks. 15 inch W-body steelies for 50 bucks. 16 inch U-van steelies for 75. Then it would be the tires...

I would so love to be working on this car with you all..

I love racing, but living on a broke mans budget doesnt always allow it....