L26 U Van Series III Update

[Jr's3800]

I had the wrong Stall.... The trans was originally a 2.84 with a 1420 stall... I swapped in a 3.06 Diff... Didn't really care about the torque converter at the time.... I soon figured out that I should have cared... So I drove the van almost 1 year on the 1420 stall, it didn't do bad, It just lacked that car like performance...

Bonnevilles that had a 3.06 gear ratio or that were supercharged had a more performance minded stall... 1897 stall is what it was called, no idea why.... Just about every 3800 on earth will stall that converter at 2000-2100.... Make more power and you can stall higher.. I can a decent bit higher than the rating... But the extra stall allows the engine to get into its torque curve quicker if that makes sense... With the cam iirc I am at a torque peak of 4300 or so.... But its a pretty flat curve nice and strong from 2500 to 4500... This is where its making the mass of its torque... So allowing it to jump into the torque curve make for better performance...

Your van with the 3.06 Trans in your van has the 1897 Stall... The L27 peaks at 3200 Rpms at a so called GM rating of 225 Ft Lbs( I believe its a bit higher )..... But due to the nature of the series I 200 Ft Lbs is there just above idle... One of the reasons the van is so driveable, can tow and still feels good while hauling around a full load...

a 3000 stall would kill me and may even overheat the trans to the point of it burning up... Im my opinion there is no reason for a 3000 Stall in a daily driver...

My can is a bit lumpy, and sure sounds like it when you hot start it... Its a Comp Cam NA performance cam... I really should not have used this cam, but for the price NIB I could not pass it up... Another reason I choose the cam was that even tho it was a bit lumpy it still made good strong low end torque.... Its their Extreme Energy Cam Stage 2 I guess you could call it... The other cam was a step above the stock cam, this one is 2 steps above..

The 1420 was just too low of a stall for the cam and the weight of the van..

[Duke George V]

What was the stall before? The first post mentions something like 3000. That's not stock though, right?

[Jr's3800]

Got the torque converter replaced... What a PITA... Much better with the 1897 stall, feels a lot like a Bonneville in terms of driveability... Next on the list change out the Valve Spring Retainers to Manley LSx retainers..... Blarg....lol

[Jr's3800]

Its got a little something to it.... But its not right yet...LOL

[Duke George V]

Fuck yes. That sounds awesome.

[Jr's3800]

Time for an update again... Got a minor video of the van before I change it... Yep thats right still haven't gotten to it... at current the 1420 stall is too low of a stall... Due to the cam abd the like this engine needs to be able to get into the revs a tad to shine... The low stall just holds it back... The HV3 is good on the top end, but I don't feel its great for the low end, or this cam.... Please forgive the quality of the Vid, it was done with my LG phone.. Van is full of fuel and 100% street trim with all the seats in it...
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also forgot.... Its averaging 20-21 in city driving...

[Jr's3800]

Time for another update.... so far I have the new Torque converter sitting here( yes a stock 1897 Stall ).... New AC Compressor with the variable orifice tube filter... New Drier... New AC compressor lines... Had an issue with the Moog front coil springs and figured out how to cure the issue, so those stiffer Moogs will go back on... New Moog rear springs ordered and on their way, should be here tomorrow... New sway bar to lower control arm bushings ordered( Poly-Energy Suspension )....


The ZZP HV3 insert will come off the van, and the stock series II runners will go back on...

I have already altered the tune, using mostly 98 Bonneville tables... so far the van is better all around.. I am running on stock timing tables for the moment... I'll be happy to have a more sporty ride with cold AC... LOL

[Jr's3800]

Yep the trans is doing good...

The HV3 is simply a short runner set up... Great for top end power... supposedly it does not really effect Low end so it claims.. But you don't gain any either... But I still think my issue is the cam and the design of the cam...

The cam is good from 1000-5500 Rpms... The torque is flat and strong in this range... All of the calculators I have played with show the torque peak at roughly 3500 Rpms, but even then its a pretty flat curve...

But I do still feel that the cam was designed around the stock long runner set up... with stock runners it pulled pretty good right to the shift... with the HV3 at the top you can tell there is more there... I am just trying to find that happy balance for daily driving...

It really is nice to have a little bit under the hood of a Trans Sport...

[turbokinetic]

Awesome the transmission is working well!

You aren't the only one who is sick and tired of reman compressors! I went round and round with them and swore never again. It's been plenty hot this year. A/C is important!

Did the HV3 insert affect the sound of the engine? Interesting it affected torque that much.

[Jr's3800]

New Trans is great and shifts really tight.... I installed the 3.06 gears... and used the HV3 Upper intake insert...

On the HV3, While this may be good with a ZZP cam, or a a stock cam... This doesn't seem to be the case with my Comp Cam NA Performance Cam... Factor in almost 4000 Lbs to move.... I need every bit of grunt I can get... However, the top end is fun... 4500 Rpms on up is insane for a 4000 Lb vehicle... Gets from 65 to 90 in a hurry... But for all intent purposes I am not running around at 4500 Rpms, nor am I doing 90 mph all of the time... so for this application the HV3 is not a great thing in my eyes... I think the HV3 will find its new home in my 95 Bonneville along with the ZZP GT1 Cam that will be installed int he future...

I am thinking of going back to the 3.33 gears.... But I need to test the water with the 1897 Stall( Every 1897 stall I have had has always stalled at 2100-2200 ) and the 3.06 gears along with the stock intake runners designed for low end and midrange torque... Will have to see what this gains for me...

as for MPG's I have been doing 20 mostly city...

The minor changes are #2 on my list...

#1 is fixing the Ac in the van so I can drive it more... I have the new AC Delco lines for the compressor, new drier and an automatically adjusting orifice tube filter... I am going to buy a new ( not a reman ) HD6 AC Compressor... Had enough of the remans...

after that will come the rest...lol

[turbokinetic]

Don, how's the new trans working (feel, milage, power etc.) with the taller gearing?
Thanks,
David

[Jr's3800]

Yeah the L36 was used in the Pontiac Bonneville, Olds 88/98, and Buick Park avenue for the 95 Model year... The W Bodies did not see them until 97...

My 95 Bonneville is actually a 94 Production... Built 12/14/94 and delivered 12/21/94 iirc...

so it will all just depend on what you would like... There are things you have to do to swap to a Series II/III... The PS pump is in a different location, in my case I used the 97 GP Power steering lines... I adapted to the 00+ Bonneville alternator and tensioner.. Had to use a W body oil filter adapter... also used a GP passenger front mount( currently running a poly W body mount 1 inch shorter )...

The front motor mount bracket bolts directly to the block, the ac compressor bracket you have will fit, but you will have to shave a bit off to clear the dip stick tube...

You will be able to use your original trans 100%...

There is an ear on the newer motor thats not there on the older motor that had to be ground off to accept the trans Brackets...

A lot will work with most all of the parts you already have... The downpipe will have to be dealt with as they are larger for the series II... and a few other things that will seem to nickle and dime you to death...LMAO


also forgot I had issues with the Throttle cable hitting the master cylinder... at first I cut the Throttle cable bracket down a hair and ground a little off the end of the master cylinder... Later I added a small throttle body spacer, and that poly front mount to keep the motor from jerking back... So far so good... It was all and still is a learning process...lol

[Duke George V]

That was a lot simpler than I was expecting. I also didn't know that the L36 was available in '95. Thanks.

[Jr's3800]

Thats an interesting question... and that will depend on what you want to do.. at one point we had the new motor running on the stock PCM... But we used an L36 EPROM with the VATS( security ) Codes and Flags turned of so the PCM would not look for the security pulse..( The EPROM was a 1995 Bonneville EPROM)... To do this we extended the EGR wires due to the location of the EGR on the new Motor, made some length changes to the MAF, IAT, TPS and IAC wires to get them where we wanted... Then we had to add to a wire for the 2nd knock sensor... On this PCM its simple, you simply splice into the existing wire.. The PCM looks for a different voltage value due to having 2 sensors on the same circuit...

I actually ran a couple thousand miles this way... With no issues... Fired right up every time...

Later My Buddy installed the 97 PCM... The 97 Connector had to be wired into the the 95 harness... He had to add the Map circuit wiring, and had to go to a 2 channel knock sensor set up...

If this van had the battery on the passenger side, I could have easily set this up like a Bonneville with the PCM under the hood and the wiring harness to match...

On my 95 Bonneville( I seem to get side tracked a lot ) I am still planning on the 98/99 PCM and Harness... I got a chunk of the harness for the inside as well.. so I should be able to splice in for everything I need for the inside of the car... The 98/99 PCM is better in terms of tuning as opposed to the 97 PCM.. The van will stay a 97 PCM..

It just depends on what you really want to do...

[Duke George V]

Gonna bring this back with another question. What sort of rewiring did you have to do, if any?