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Dust Buster Race Car...help needed

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    And we are internet famous again...this time for beating an F-body which is rarely that hard (save the TaTa's excluded)

    http://www.roadkill.com/lemons-ponti...port-vs-trans/

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      Lookin' good. Any plans to address your blazing hot brakes? Some ducting couldn't hurt.

      Also, how is the transmission holding up? Keeping the 4T60E cool is a big deal in the vans, since they're a lot heavier than the cars.
      Last edited by Duke George V; 10-06-2015, 10:21 PM.
      Daniel
      Kaiser George IX: 1996 Buick Century Special wagon. 214-SFI. 227k miles. Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. First documented LX9 swap in an A-body! Click here to read my build thread!
      Goldilocks: 1992 Buick Century Special sedan. 204-MFI. 132k miles.
      Susana: 1993 Buick Century Custom wagon. 204-MFI. 121k miles. No longer with us.

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        I believe he running some front brakes that came off a corvette so much bigger, also he I believe have some alloy wheels which should have a lot more open space to allow heat to escape. Steelies tend to just hold in all the heat and slowly roast everything.
        Racing 4 Nickels

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          Originally posted by lemons bob View Post
          I believe he running some front brakes that came off a corvette so much bigger, also he I believe have some alloy wheels which should have a lot more open space to allow heat to escape. Steelies tend to just hold in all the heat and slowly roast everything.
          Yep, Corvette C5 brakes and 17" alloys off the only Uplander sold with 17" 5-lug alloys. Oh, and one 2005 Buick Rendevous 17" alloy because the Uplander only had three wheels at the PnP and I suspect its offroad adventure had torn off the fourth.

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            We re-purposed the AC condesor as a tranny cooler so that has so far not been an issue. With our third electric fan we arwee running about 225 F at the July race. It could spike to 245 but even that is within realistic tolerance.

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              Originally posted by OnkelUdo View Post
              We re-purposed the AC condesor as a tranny cooler so that has so far not been an issue. With our third electric fan we arwee running about 225 F at the July race. It could spike to 245 but even that is within realistic tolerance.
              Well, I spoke too soon on this. We have a multitude of little issues this race and the tranny was one of them. No issues in the test drives prior to loading it on the trailer. After unloading at the track and taking a spin around the paddock it was not making the 1-2 shift until bouncing off the rev limiter unless you feathered the throttle just right and it would often grab neutral between the 2-3 shift. On the track it would get massively confused as we exited a turn and went from partial to full throttle. Some turns it would bang from 3 down to first and others it would go from second to OD...other times if would shift relatively normally.

              We got through the weekend by pulling the vac line to the modulator but this was not a fix...just made it slightly less erratic. We need to figure this one out if possible but the solenoids ohm'ed out correctly. Automatic transmissions are voodoo to me.

              It also would not start from dead cold without voodoo being employed.

              AC pulley bearing shelled itself.

              The brakes worked amazingly well.

              The tires were a nightmare (out of date and we did not notice) and we destroyed another driver side axle and passenger front hub.

              Comment


                245F is pretty high for transmission fluid. You may have cooked it. I would service the unit, and put in a bunch of Lucas trans fix, like at least two quarts, and see if that helps. It couldn't hurt at this point, really.
                Daniel
                Kaiser George IX: 1996 Buick Century Special wagon. 214-SFI. 227k miles. Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. First documented LX9 swap in an A-body! Click here to read my build thread!
                Goldilocks: 1992 Buick Century Special sedan. 204-MFI. 132k miles.
                Susana: 1993 Buick Century Custom wagon. 204-MFI. 121k miles. No longer with us.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Duke George V View Post
                  245F is pretty high for transmission fluid. You may have cooked it. I would service the unit, and put in a bunch of Lucas trans fix, like at least two quarts, and see if that helps. It couldn't hurt at this point, really.
                  Really depends on what he is using. In the Ciera I have been using MobileOne synthetic transfluid, and 240 is well within its operating temp.

                  I am kind of disappointed that I will never know how the NobleSport tires you got would have worked.

                  Now with the half shafts are you splitting the boots apart? I think it was the Binford guys that used to run the beretta told me they had that issue after lowering it. They said lowering it messed with the angles and the boots would flex too much and rip, their fix was to wrapp the boots with some rope and than glue the rope to the boots. It would firm it up a bit and help hold it together but still allow it to flex.

                  for the trans I don't know. The Monte Carlo showed me that 4 speed automatics are dumb and that I much prefer my 3 speed on the track.(once you hit 60 there is no way to get that stupid thing to kick back down a gear causing us to really slowly accelerate when taking corners 3,4,5 properly. Not my car and running hot so didn't just toss it in 3rd for half the course) Also learned that anti-lock brakes are really annoying.
                  Racing 4 Nickels

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                    The fluid itself is surviving quite well. No indications of burning or breakdown. It is possible that the internal components of the tranny cannot handle the heat, though. It is also just as possible it is older, moderately high mileage tranny.

                    The failure between test drive and no other activities but driving it on and off the trailer is what stumps me. I am still hoping it is electrical due to us pulling the sub frame again recently.
                    Last edited by OnkelUdo; 10-14-2015, 01:25 PM.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by lemons bob View Post
                      I am kind of disappointed that I will never know how the NobleSport tires you got would have worked.

                      Now with the half shafts are you splitting the boots apart?

                      for the trans I don't know. The Monte Carlo showed me that 4 speed automatics are dumb and that I much prefer my 3 speed on the track.(once you hit 60 there is no way to get that stupid thing to kick back down a gear causing us to really slowly accelerate when taking corners 3,4,5 properly. Not my car and running hot so didn't just toss it in 3rd for half the course) Also learned that anti-lock brakes are really annoying.
                      The NobleSports will remain our back ups...some day they will likely see emergency duty.

                      The boots are usually staying intact but the CV's are failing. We had the same issue on the Saturn just not as frequent.

                      Our tranny actually shifted up and down much better than I expected until this race. It was not as firm or decisive as the AW70 in my Volvo but much better than a lot of modern'ish slushboxes.

                      When they worked, the antilock brakes were great for keeping the rears from locking up and flat spotting. Now with 2000% more brake up front, that issue is gone but we have the distinct possibility of locking the fronts inadvertently.

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                        The no start issue is solved. The shredding belt from the seized AC pulley sent twisted threads and junk into the crank position sensor. Both the harmonic balancer and the sensor were damaged.

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                          This is our call for help on the 4T60E issue we are having as posted on the LeMons board. Would appreciate any advise from this crew as well.

                          "Guys, the Dustbuster has an issue (beyond the obvious). Race one and two the transmission ran as flawlessly as a mid-1990's GM FWD automatic can be expected to. It would rev to just short of red line at WoT and rarely missed a shift in general.

                          After pulling the subframe to fix a multitude of engine related issue, repair some structural rust, etc., it now shifts like it is drunk or at least has ADD. Last race was an exercise in patience. It rev's until it bounces off the rev limiter if you do not feather the throttle and often the upshifts either find a false neutral or pause before engaging. Downshifts hesitate end then seem to slam into gear...often a lower gear than normal.

                          So we did the official GM pressure test and everything passes. We ohm'ed out the the shift solenoids and they all are well within spec's. Apparently doing the latter requires snipping and splicing the wires back together which had already been done in the past. Additionally, I found a check valve in the vacuum modulator line that cannot possibly be factory but was non-functional as a check valve.

                          We are torn. I think it is electrical (due to the sudden onset), my token engineer was thinking a fluid pressure issue until the test and our most practical mechanic thinks it is the clutches.

                          Last point. I doubt it is related but in the same period we had a starting issue that absolutely was electrical. In the end it appears the crank sensor was the cause but we did not know this until well after.

                          Primary concern is not that we "need" to replace the tranny it is that if we replace the tranny will it:
                          a) Fix the issue
                          b) Will the higher temps we are seeing for the fluid (225 sustained...rare spike to 245) kill components even thought fluid itself is not breaking down (token engineer swears it is fine...and that is his specialty)...we already have a massive cooler.
                          c) If electrical will we just be chasing the same problem

                          Thanks for any input."

                          Comment


                            You sound a lot like you are describing a failing TPS.. A TPS that gets out of whack can cause the PCM to send the 60E all over the board.. It can cause it to go from 2nd to Overdrive with you foot almost on the floor board.. As well it could cause an unexpected downshift.. Also make sure the PCM is not seeing an oddball P1361 code, sometimes the 94/95 PCM could get funky and not completely fail..

                            On the fluid temps, My thoughts are that 240F is just too hot.. I have heard from pros that was acceptable to have a trans running at 240F.... Funny that a GM PCM will throw it into limp home at 260F... Optimum fluid temp for a trans is in the 160F area... I would think that even with the Condenser being used as a trans cooler the trans could run cooler, but how much flow are you getting through it is my question.

                            My 95 Bonneville has the exact same Trans with the same gear ratio.. I added an RV + 7000 Lb cooler many moons ago.. Its at 213,000ish and still shifts like a charm, fluid is still red.. It has an adjustable modulator and shifts quick even at 6000 Rpms( 60-E's don't like much more than 6000 Rpms due to the 9 vane pump ) I have never seen 200F with the cooler... I run 160-180F on a blazing hot day.. But I have never raced it full on like your van.. I'd say the closed you can keep it to 160F the better..

                            Do check out that TPS to see if its performing as it should with no sudden drops in voltage or throttle angle..

                            Comment


                              oh you forgot to put the coversheet on it didn't you



                              Let me send you a copy of the memo
                              Racing 4 Nickels

                              Comment


                                Most of what you say makes perfect sense in particular the TPS (we have had problems with it before but replaced it). This is the one I struggle with:

                                "Optimum fluid temp for a trans is in the 160F area." The reason this one does not play well for me is the dual coolers in the radiator and standard thermostat temp of 195. This means GM is encouraging the transmission temp to be in the 195 range and a little hotter once up to temp on a warm day.

                                Our engineer ordered a used J-box off Ebay so we will be testing while driving soon.

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