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Thread: Has everyone forgotten about the 3.3l?

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    Senior Member cutlassburnin's Avatar
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    Default Has everyone forgotten about the 3.3l?

    Ive been searching for basic things like a cam and such and it seems every company has completely forgotten about the 3300...from my experience its proven to be a reasonable stout motor for this type of car. I dont see why nothing is made for it..I mean..didnt it come in the grand am gt's at one point?



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    Senior Member brp2z's Avatar
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    dude i hate to say that us 3300 guys are lucky and boned at the same time

    we are luck in the fact we have a 300,000 mile engine thats strong and fairly easy to work on. such a work horse

    but we are boned. there is not any aftermarket for the damn thing.

    my suggestion would be to do what i plan to do.
    get a 3.8 and start building it as you can afford to. then when the day comes, do the swap.

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    Senior Member brp2z's Avatar
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    but if anyone wants to correct me do so.
    i love the 3300 and would love to build on it
    lol

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    Senior Member cutlassburnin's Avatar
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    Really wish I had the shop space..my dad back home In detroit has a hanger sized shop but thats 9 hours away. Unfortunately Im doomed to driveway projects right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cutlassburnin View Post
    Ive been searching for basic things like a cam and such and it seems every company has completely forgotten about the 3300...from my experience its proven to be a reasonable stout motor for this type of car. I dont see why nothing is made for it..I mean..didnt it come in the grand am gt's at one point?
    It was also optioned in all N-bodys I believe, from 89-93 (Skylark, Achieva, Grand am?, Cialis? Or something like that)

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    Senior Member brp2z's Avatar
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    i dont really have the space either. i can really relate. i live here in TN with the grandparent and go to college. we have a"garage" if by "garage" you mean a room they have a table 2 freezers a bunch of junk as use as a place to smoke. as opposed to a 2 car garage with everything under the sun at my dads.

    i plan to get an engine stand and put it in the shed if necessary

    http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/...5X-_-100594509

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    Member 95CutlassCiera's Avatar
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    do it in your living room/bed room/kitchen, if your really commited, its not unheard of, also alows year long working
    1972 Buick Skylark 350, 1995 Olds Cutlass Ciera

    Remember that just because you cannot see the point in something doesn't mean that it is automatically not worth it to others that are more ambitious. I personally do not see the point in boosting the hell out of a Honda Civic but you will never find me questioning why the other guys do it.-rocket 5979
    Resident Gearhead
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    Senior Member cutlassburnin's Avatar
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    ha, my dad worked on his harley in the computer room back in the day when I was little.

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    Senior Member Zaloryan's Avatar
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    I haven't found much aftermarket for the 3300 aside from performance ignition parts from MSD & Accel.

    Another question to throw in: Would there be any benefits from boring out a 3300 to 0.30 over?

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    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaloryan View Post
    Another question to throw in: Would there be any benefits from boring out a 3300 to 0.30 over?
    Yes - if the bores are scored or worn and it is burning oil!

    I ran into the same thing (no hi-po parts) when hopping up my mom's series I 3800, and my 3.8 SFI Turbo. The series II and III 3800 has plenty of hop-up parts.

    There are several things that can be done to the engine with its original parts to improve it.

    To start with, you have a good foundation with a roller cam and tuned manifold. Anything that improves the airflow will help with high RPM power. Probably the most beneficial thing you can do is a mild porting job.

    I used a Dremel tool, with a 'pear shaped' carbide burr. Put cutting oil on it, especially when doing the aluminum manifold, to keep the burr from clogging.

    Match the sizes of the ports in the manifold and heads. Look at the gasket marks and open the ports out to match the size of the gaskets. This is called "gasket match" porting. Imagine that!



    Next thing to do is clean up (blend) the intake and exhaust "bowls." This is the area in the head below the valves. You want to make the top of the valveguide rounded and as small as possible, as well as remove any steps, ridges, or casting flaws in this area. Make sure the bowl area does not step in below the valve seat. Do both the exhaust and intake ports. Remember you're not trying to "hog out" the port, just smooth the flow of air and reduce restrictions.







    Once you port the heads, take them and have a valve job done. Ask the machinist to "back cut" the valves after he does the basic valve job. This is where he removes any ridge or extra material from the underside of the valve head head, to help the airflow at low valve lift.

    While the heads are at the machine shop, port the intake manifold. Round off anything that gets in the way of the airflow. The injector holes may have a large lip in the port. Remove or smooth this. Enlarge the ports on the manifold to be the size of the gasket between the heads and manifold.





    Continue with the exhaust manifolds. They should be opened up to the same size as the exhaust ports in the heads. Round off any sharp edges you can reach with the grinder.

    Pay attention to the rear manifold where the downpipe connects. Make SURE the opening at the collector for the downpipe is properly constructed. This should be a full port with no restriction. This is a problem area on some 3800's.





    When the machinist has the block and the heads, have him cut the deck of the block and heads to increase the compression ratio. 9.5 is safe for non-turbo applications. You can surely increase it 1/2 point over the factory ratio. I have always tried to shoot for 9.5 compression ratio. This will give the engine more torque and more miles per gallon.

    Boring the engine out will give more compression and displacement but the effect is minor. Don't bore the block out to where the cylinder walls are paper-thin. The power gains are not worth the risk. Just bore it out enough to fit the next oversize pistons from the level of wear in the bores.

    I took a 3800 from its factory rating of 165 HP to 195 HP by simply doing the above, plus a free flow exhaust and K&N filter int he stock airbox. If I were to manually shift and allow the engine to rev to 6000 I have no doubt it would pull 200 or 215 HP. This HP is an estimate based of measured engine airflow, at (WOT in Drive), compared before and after rebuild.

    Other than my time this cost very little more than a "normal" rebuild. I'm no expert head builder, so feel free to laugh at my porting job! However it does make a very noticable difference! The engine wants to rev alot higher, and the intake has a much throatier roar when the throttle is blipped open.

    There is alot of iron in these heads. Unless you try to "hog out" the bowls, you will not ruin the heads. Do the porting before the valve job so that if you slip and gouge the valve seat, it will not be a problem. If you gouge a freshly ground valve seat, it will mean another trip to the machine shop!

    Hope this inspires you to make a go of it!
    David

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    Senior Member bubblebob88's Avatar
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    My mechanic and friend thinks the 3300 could handle at least a safe 4 pounds of boost, meaning a super small turbo with a gain at least 40ish horsepower. I'm tempted but at the same time dont have another ride during the work and I don't have another 3300 in case the one turbo'd one blows up lol.

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    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubblebob88 View Post
    My mechanic and friend thinks the 3300 could handle at least a safe 4 pounds of boost, meaning a super small turbo with a gain at least 40ish horsepower. I'm tempted but at the same time dont have another ride during the work and I don't have another 3300 in case the one turbo'd one blows up lol.
    It would be nearly impossible to blow up a 3300 with a turbo at 4 PSI. Something would have to go dreadfully wrong, and stay that way for a while to blow up at 4 PSI.

    The stock ECM would handle 4 PSI without any tuning, more than likely; especially if you use an intercooler. This would keep the detonaton away in spite of not having a timing retard.

    The scare stories about turbos blowing up engines are usually from people who try to run too much boost on a non-tuned stock motor, without an intercooler. They do not do their homework, and therefore do not know the safe limits of their engine management hardware or the engine its self.

    David

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    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    One more point....

    It is alot harder to "break" an engine with torque (turbo boost) than it is with high RPMs. The inertia of the pistons reversing at the top and bottom of the stroke is far more stressful than the extra torque from turbo boost.

    You can double the HP on most well-made stock motors (with tuning and intercooler) without breakage. Try to turn enough RPM's to double the stock HP without a turbo and see what happens!

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    Senior Member bubblebob88's Avatar
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    I think I might try finding out some more on a small turbo, at least maybe brag I have the only turbo'd 3300 until someone else does it lol. I think it would be sweet, also having around if not more than 200 horsepower out of the 3300, with the intercooler, exhaust and filter/air intake.

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    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bubblebob88 View Post
    I think I might try finding out some more on a small turbo, at least maybe brag I have the only turbo'd 3300 until someone else does it lol. I think it would be sweet, also having around if not more than 200 horsepower out of the 3300, with the intercooler, exhaust and filter/air intake.
    Depending on what your goals are, you can make a turbo system as complex or as simple as you want.

    For a 200 HP system, you would not need a water cooled turbo. That will eliminate the water lines. Also, get one with a built-in wastegate. That will simplify the exhaust fabrication work.

    Instead of a "small turbo" you would want "the right turbo." In other words one that is matched to a 200 HP engine. This would give you the quickest boost response at low RPM.

    For 200 HP the stock exhaust pipe size should work but you would want a free-flow muffler such as a Flowmaster. You could save the collector that would be cut from the rear manifold. Then, use it as the end-piece of the downpipe so that the remainder of the factory exhaust system will re-connect with the original hardware.

    At that power level, the engine will not need an external oil cooler so that will save some hoses and fittings. The turbo will still need oil lines, however.

    At its most basic, to add a turbo:

    -Cut off collector from rear manifold. Weld plate over hole.
    -Weld turbo mount flange to crossover pipe.
    -Fabricate downpipe, use original collector cut off in step 1 so original exhaust connects.
    -Install oil pressure line from oil filter housing to turbo inlet. Do not cheapen it here this is critical and can be a fire hazard or ruin the engine if it breaks.
    -Install return fitting in pan or block skirt. Can use braided Teflon hose to save time and cost versus hard line.
    -Run intercooler charge air plumbing, use marine exhaust hose to save time and cost, instead of welding up pipework.
    -Install a "cone" air filter on turbo inlet to save time of making an intake pipe.
    -If fuel is not adequate, install Accufab regulator and tweak fuel pressure slightly.

    That would be bare minimum to make a turbo system with any hope of being reliable and safe.

    have you looked at my turbo 3.8 SFI project pictures?

    David

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