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Thread: (not) Speeding = You'll be tasered

  1. #1
    Senior Member Tuddi's Avatar
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    Angry (not) Speeding = You'll be tasered

    These videos should shock the craps out of everyone behind a wheel.

    Tasers'R'Us

    To protect and taser you to death if need be

    I mean... this is what one can easily depict as something normal in a Fascist country. Last year 300 people were killed by tasers in the US alone... and still that tool of torture is called "non-lethal".

    I am flabbergasted.... living here in a 3rd world country, this would never ever be allowed down here. I have lived in Europe for 12 years, working in most of the (then) european union and beyond countries, and this would never have been accepted in ANY of the countries either.

    I have seen other fascist cop videos in the past... also originating in the US... I think there is a big problem in your country, and the people have forgotten that THEY are the one's who have to let the policy makers know that it's the PEOPLE who hold the power. Not some fascist cops or corrupt politicians.

    In the first video the cop enters the vehicle to search it, and that's without a search warrant. He didn't even read the guy his rights... not even after the guy specifically ASKED him to read him his rights. And when asked how fast he had been going, (the policeman) he did not want to tell. When the guy asked for what he was being arrested, he was not told.

    The people need to wake up and end this terror carried out by the public "servants" that think of themselves as being above the law.

    I wonder what would happen to someone who actually DID some speeding.

    Yikes!
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    Unfortuately there is a lot wrong here in America. scary stuff. Its not so terrible though. Theres still some good things here lol

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    Senior Member Tuddi's Avatar
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    Well, when 1st graders are suspended from school for drawing match-stick men shooting each other... one knows there's more than "a little" wrong. 1st graders arrested for selling lemonade from their improvised lemonade stand outside their house in a quiet suburban area. 5 year old arrested (and handcuffed) after drawing with chalk stick on the sidewalk outside his home, playing this hopping game all children play at one time or another.

    When I read about such occurrances, I am really glad I live in a 3rd world country where the authorities don't have the time or money to abuse the citizens....

    Perudise for me It just angers me to see how the PEOPLE have been marginalized by their rulers, and they (the people) have seemingly forgotten that they are the ones who should be giving the authorities the orders, and not the other way around.

    Sorry for my rant... I am very political in my views... I think it would be better if I keep my political rants in the proper places But the videos are vehicle related... so ...
    Old like good wine...

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    i would like to say that depending on were you live in the us makes a big diffrince. and i dont think thies cases happen all that often.

    the frist vid was kinda funny because if that the guy in the car getting pulled over had followed the cop instructions he wouldnt have been in the cuffed mess (if that were me i would have let it played out a little longer to see if that guy was a real treat) .but at the same that cop was over the top.

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    Senior Member mickstan_VR's Avatar
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    These are isolated incidents. Its a big country. Do the math, with so many people, some of them are gonna be f*ck'd up. And some of them carry things too far. And sometimes you only see one side of the whole story.
    And no, its not right.
    We haven't forgotton that we give the orders, but it sometimes seems that our elected officals have forgotton that they're job is to take them.

    And I'm with Brian, I don't have to love my president to love my country. but I did exercise my right to vote, and was freely allowed to do so. Which is more than I can say for a lot of places. We may not be perfect, but show me ONE place that is. EVERYBODY has some form of corruption running thru thier government. Thats just how it is.

    there, I ranted back you. now I feel better too. and i have no problem discussing political views here. as long as we keep it in its own thread only, and we keep it civil. cool?
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    Senior Member a1veedubber's Avatar
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    Coming from a family with a strong law-enforcement background, I can say that Tasers are a great thing. Anything that can prevent a person from being shot is a good thing. In these videos though, neither person needed to be tasered. True, both of them should have listened to the officers (the second lady was told four times to exit the vehicle) but neither of them was a threat to the officer.
    A couple of other things:

    Less then 250 people have died as a result of being tasered from 2001 through June of 2007. 300 is one year is an way incorrect number.

    A person is not usually "read their rights" at the scene, this is normally done at the Police Station if a person is formally arrested.

    A search warrant is not required to search a vehicle, the fact that the driver is being arrested gives them "Probable Cause" to search the vehicle (I am not saying here that I agree with the outcome of this stop though). This probable cause thing can be mis-used, most police officers in this country are not like this though....

    I didnt catch it in the first video, but the second lady was going 52mph in a 35 zone. That is 17mph over, most officers I know will pull over a car going that far over the limit.

    I am not trying to be a jerk or anything, this is just a topic that is very dear to my heart.I too am a very political person, I do not understand how so many people can be so not-political! In my town of 1700 people, less that 500 actually voted in our last election!
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    You disobey an officer your a MORON! Period. What SHOULD the officer do when the guy doesnt listen? Physically try to grab him and take him down? Shoot him with his pistol? WHAT are his options? He already asked the guy at least 4 times. I can tell you ONE thing...because of the way MY PARENTS brought me up that will NEVER happen to me. You LISTEN TO WHAT YOUR BEING TOLD and then deal with it. IF the dope would have MAYBE signed the ticket and actually READ it then he MAY have seen WHAT speed he was getting a ticket for! Ever thought of that instead of arguing with the cop about it?

    I have been pulled over for speeding when I wasnt before, I tell him I was going the speed limit and then let him do what he wants to do. THEN fight it in court.
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    Senior Member Tuddi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickstan_VR View Post
    These are isolated incidents.
    Every single incident is "isolated"... even when similar ones are found all over the country.

    [QUOTE=mickstan_VR;2047]And I'm with Brian, I don't have to love my president to love my country.QUOTE]

    Phew... that's a great relief!

    Quote Originally Posted by mickstan_VR View Post
    but I did exercise my right to vote, and was freely allowed to do so. Which is more than I can say for a lot of places. We may not be perfect, but show me ONE place that is. EVERYBODY has some form of corruption running thru thier government. Thats just how it is.?
    Well, now I'm sure you will disagree with me.
    You talk about your right to vote. You have been had! It's not a "right"... it's just something you have been told is a right, and most people believe that to be true.

    It's not.

    Even if elections worked, and every vote would have equal weight and be properly counted, the elections would not make a functioning democracy or keep a functioning democracy.

    A civic duty to vote? Well, that sounds more like the tone of a totalitarian state, and that is exactly what we, the people of the world have been fed with over the years. You vote, and therefore you are living in a democracy! (period).

    Nothing could be further from the truth. Once people vote, they have given their voice and support to the person they vote for. Once they have done that, they have NO RIGHT TO SPEAK UP. Their voice is now in the hands of their "representative", and it is up to said reprensentative to decide what s/he will do with the power s/he has been given. The PEOPLE can speak up again in 4 years at the next election... when they give their voice to the same, or a new candidate... and then it is time for the people to shut up again.

    THAT is the right people are given in the thing we know as "democracy".

    A person who does NOT vote, has NOT given it's voice and will to someone else, and therefore has ALL THE RIGHT to speak up and represent him/herself where ever s/he finds fit to do so. A person who does NOT vote, has all the rights intact, and the authorities have NO right to shut such a person up.

    If people would understand this on massive scale, there would be no powerbase. The PEOPLE would yield the power, and real DEMOCRACY would be in place.

    The system we have now in most western (and other) countries, is AUTOCRACY... where it is the TOP of the pyramide that rules over everything below it. The top of the pyramide is usually

    President
    Congress
    People

    or would it be...

    Military Industrial Complex
    Corporations
    President
    Congress
    People

    ?

    In any case, it's not the people who call the shots on anything.

    You want democratic rights and freedoms? Then don't vote.

    Me being Icelandic puts me into a cradle of democracy. Iceland has had democracy since the year 930. That's right. 1077 years of continous democracy. But what kind of democracy?

    People
    Parliament
    President

    The people are at the top of the pyramide, then there are the politicians who HAVE TO have the accept of the people, and at the bottom we have the president, who has NO power to do anything. The president is a representative of ALL the people in the country, and is by law prohibited to have any political affiliations. The president is obligated to sign laws and other papers parliament presents. Can't declare an emergency, can't make new laws, can't start a war, can't abuse anyone.

    I have personally had 2 politicians to leave office the very same day, reason being; they were working against my interests, and they are not allowed to do so according to the law.

    No, Iceland is not perfect, but comes close (and I prefer to live in this banana republic of Peru, rather than to be in the civilized world..... mainly because down here we have no beurocracy that resembles the one found in the western world, and I like full throttle freedom).

    Switzerland is another example of a country which has a good and functioning system. Coincidentially the US constitution was based on the Swiss one.

    The people in Switzerland are given referendums for all major decisions, even when new military hardware has to be bought, it's put out to the people who decide what (if anything) will be bought for the armed forces.

    That's democracy in action.

    Regarding corruption... Iceland is #1 in the world as the country with the least corruption. What helps most on that front, is that the population is very small (302.000 in total... one Icelander for every thousand Americans). The people know each other and the politicians are part of the public. No one can get away with lies or cheating. The police isn't carrying arms, because there is no need for that. Most people in the country are armed to their teeth, but that's because of our hunting traditions. One of my brother has 4 shotguns and 12 different rifles... I used to have 7 rifles, and was trained by my father to shoot from the age of 5. Yet, with all this firepower, there are no gun-related murders in the country.

    Yes, it may sound strange, but it's the reality. Drugs are limited to maybe 50 individuals at any given time. People leave their houses without having to lock the doors or windows... cause no one is going to rob them. Everyone has jobs, everyone gets the education they want, and PAY NOTHING for it (of course the costs are taken through the taxes, so it's not "free"... but still... ) And the healthcare system is in the same way. If you need a new heart, you will have one without ruining your private economy or the economy of your family / friends.

    If I would return to Iceland right now ... after 22 years, I could start studies to become a doctor. Brain surgeant for instance, would normally require of me to do my studies in the US or Japan. Not a problem. I would have the whole studies and housing and food paid through public funds. Why? Beceause the country would benefit from such a doctor in the end, rather than having to send brain patients to other countries and pay insane amounts for the operations.

    No, such a system is not a "nanny state". It is a state operated in the way the people deem apropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mickstan_VR View Post
    there, I ranted back you. now I feel better too. and i have no problem discussing political views here. as long as we keep it in its own thread only, and we keep it civil. cool?
    My rant was longer than yours


    And thanks for the opportunity given to express my basic views on the subject of "democracy".
    Old like good wine...

  9. #9
    Senior Member Tuddi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcjredline View Post
    You disobey an officer your a MORON! Period.
    That's true... in a police-state. Not in a free and democratic country. If the officer says or demands something that is unacceptable according to the law and to you as a human, you better stand up for your rights and question the actions of the officer. If not, you have accepted to be abused, and also given a green rubberstamp to the cop to abuse others. That's what happens when nobody dares standing up for what is right.

    Quote Originally Posted by dcjredline View Post
    What SHOULD the officer do when the guy doesnt listen?
    They guy was listening, and asked questions, which the police "officer" did not respond to (unless tasering someone is considered an apropriate response).

    There was no way he was speeding, judging from what we can see in the video. And when the guy asked how fast he was going, the "officer" didn't want to inform him of that (I understand that is something an officer is obligated to do).... and when the other officer came there, the guy went on a lying rant about what had taken place.

    Once he has decided to arrest someone, he is obligated by law, to read the person his/her rights. That's a non-negotiable fact.... and he didn't. Not even after the guy insisted on being read his rights.

    I think the cop was drugged... or just plain insane.
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    It's common enough for people to make videos about it and point out these flaws. We aren't perfect, but really, if your not going to listen to a police officer and come off with an attitude, you deserve what you get.

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    Senior Member a1veedubber's Avatar
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    A couple more things..

    Iceland has not been a continuous democracy since the 900's

    The government taking my money to give it to someone else is not freedom. That is socialism. And our government does too much of that already...

    The United States is not a democracy. It never has been. The United States is a Federal Republic. Iceland, being a much smaller country, is able to be a Unitary Republic. That Is pretty much like the US with the individual state governments removed.

    A lot of people forget that the original United States was much like a confederation of 13 separate countrys.The Federal Governments job was pretty much just national defense and also settling trade disputes among the states. One of our big problems is that we forget this and give our Federal Government FAR to much power that should instead be held by the individual states. It is also much easier to keep corruption at bay in the smaller state government than it is in the Federal.

    Also, our original founding people did notwant a huge standing army. Look at our US Navy's history fighting the barbary pirates (our original foray against Islamic "Terrorists"). We had a h@ll of a time just getting six simple frigates built, but our standing armed forces have gradually increased since then. Unfortunately in this day and age, it is pretty much a necessity for any country of size to have a standing armed force.

    /rant
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    Senior Member Tuddi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CieraSL92 View Post
    if your not going to listen to a police officer and come off with an attitude, you deserve what you get.
    A police officer is supposedly a public servant. If he doesn't serve the public, he should find himself another more fitting job.

    If defending one's rights against abuse is "attitude"... then it's clear the world needs a lot more people with attitude.

    Yes, Iceland has it's base in socialism, and that is good. That's why there isn't poverty, that's why there aren't people living in the streets, that's why people are well educated and well cared for healthwise and are not living in their own filth when they grow old and unable to take care of themselves. That's good in my view, and that's good in the view of the Icelandic population. We as people have the power over politicians, and that is something you don't find in any country which is based on capitalism.

    I am well aware of the problem in the US understanding what socialism and communism really is, after decades of anti communist propaganda by your governments and media and hollywood.... sorry, but I'm not going into that discussion here...

    I have lived in socialistic/capitalist, communistic and capitalist/socialist countries for extended periods of time, and therefore I have a personal experience that exceeds theory and heresay There are good aspects for the inhabitants in all the above systems, but the one's that benefit the population in general, the most, are those that have their base in socialism and communism. I don't have a problem with paying my taxes, even in excess, to a system that doesn't rob the money for some whacked war on the other side of the globe, using the money for murdering people, rather than using the money to keep the population healthy in mind and body.

    As to Iceland "not not been a continuous democracy since the 900's" ... that's how you can choose to interpret it. The fact still remains that Icelanders never bent over backwards and accepted the rule of Denmark and Norway. The national matters were handled by the people at Althingi, where all major decisions and quarrels were discussed and solved. Even during the times of our occupation, matters were handled by the people. So our democracy has been continous since 930.... but I also reckognize the possibility of calling it something it isn't

    Quote Originally Posted by a1veedubber
    The government taking my money to give it to someone else is not freedom.
    Well, what if you have a look at the benefits for you and yours, living in such a system?

    What is the purpose of having a country, if that very country can't provide everyone in it, with the possibility to have a safe environment to live in, to have access to education and healthcare that doesn't destroy your private economy in case of an accident or health failure? Not everything decided by governments can be agreed with, by everyone... far from it, and there IS a lot of bad decisions and then there is all the corruption that generally is tied up with monetary fraud. That's normally seen in countries not based on socialism. If you'd try to bribe a police officer in Iceland with say... 10.000 dollars (or whatever other amount) to forget about giving you a speeding ticket, you would be arrested and sit in jail for an extended time. The police is paid to do their jobs, and they do it well.

    In contrast, here in Peru, you can bribe a police to look the other way by offering no more than 5 dollars. It's convenient of course if you have been speeding or parked illegally or something minor like that... but the police here also accepts bribes if there are bigger issues at hand, such as murders.... and that's where one can see why there should be NO corruption allowed in ANY way.

    Here you buy a judge for 100 dollars if need be.


    Quote Originally Posted by a1veedubber
    The United States is not a democracy. It never has been. The United States is a Federal Republic.
    Absolutely correct to the final dot!

    ... and it always amuses me to hear US officials talking about building democratic states... when they themselves don't live in a democratic country.

    Quote Originally Posted by a1veedubber
    A lot of people forget that the original United States was much like a confederation of 13 separate countrys.The Federal Governments job was pretty much just national defense and also settling trade disputes among the states. One of our big problems is that we forget this and give our Federal Government FAR to much power that should instead be held by the individual states. It is also much easier to keep corruption at bay in the smaller state government than it is in the Federal.
    You know your stuff, that's good!

    Yes, if each state handled all legislation, rather than having the federal government to put the final touch on everything, there would be much more accountability. Unfortunately we live in a world where powergrabs is on every day's agenda... and I don't think that's going to change until people in general rise up and demand a change in course.

    I started one micro-revolution here in Peru, and the people who stood up and claimed their right, armed with whatever weapons they could get their hands on, did get what they demanded, and no charges were brought against any of them. I had been talking to the local people in the jungle while I was there on a 2 month visit, and they told me about how abused they felt as a community, because the oil companies didn't pay anything for using the public transport routes and other crap that came from them (dumping of chemicals into the rivers etc). They had been trying to solve these issues through dialogue for a few years, but nothing happened. I said they would have to stand up and demonstrate their force and determination to be heard. Even with weapons in hand and threaten to use force (but preferably not even fire a single shot). The abuse of the oil companies justified such a response, I said.

    Then I was back to the comfort of my own home a couple of weeks later. A month or so after talking to the people about rebelling, I heard of the uprising on TV and the people being interviewed were some of those whom I had been talking to. So I gave them the final push... without actually having planned it. They had been pushed around long enough, and having an outsider like me to put the final brick in place, was enough to start the whole thing.

    Small governments for small populations is the ideal scenario.

    Sorry again... all of the above is written as my private opinion, and should not be taken as a condemnation of anyone's opposite private opinions. All written with a calm mind and a smile on my butt-ugly face... so... everyone... please don't get offended.
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  13. #13
    Senior Member a1veedubber's Avatar
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    Its funny that I thought we wouldn't agree on anything! I see that we are not as far off from each other as I thought! I added my comments in bold below

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuddi View Post
    A police officer is supposedly a public servant. If he doesn't serve the public, he should find himself another more fitting job. Absolutely right! Unfortunately, some seem to get "power hungry" and forget this.

    If defending one's rights against abuse is "attitude"... then it's clear the world needs a lot more people with attitude. Also correct! If no one defended they're rights we would all still be living in monarchy's! Well,most of us anyways

    ....I am well aware of the problem in the US understanding what socialism and communism really is, after decades of anti communist propaganda by your governments and media and hollywood.... sorry, but I'm not going into that discussion here...I dont blame you, it can get ugly pretty quick! Also, many Americans have NO IDEA how powerful the Socialist movement in this country was in the early 20th century. The whole WWII thing kind of killed it. Although I don't personally agree with pure Socialism, C.S.Lewis did say that a perfect Christian Society would closely resemble a Socialist State (and he is probably right) .Also, there is nothing unconstitutional about Socialism or Communism. In fact, I grew up about 30 miles away from one of the most successful Communal "Experiments" the Amana Colonies. Do a quick Wikipedia search if you want, it's quite interesting!

    ... and it always amuses me to hear US officials talking about building democratic states... when they themselves don't live in a democratic country. Me too!

    Yes, if each state handled all legislation, rather than having the federal government to put the final touch on everything, there would be much more accountability. Unfortunately we live in a world where powergrabs is on every day's agenda... and I don't think that's going to change until people in general rise up and demand a change in course. Agree completely here too. I often mention to friends that the United States is a great thing gone wrong! I dont see changes coming soon though, most people just seem to worry about material things and then complain that everything is going to crap!

    Small governments for small populations is the ideal scenario.I agree eleventy billion percent!
    I thought I would add also that I am possibly the only one here that has actually been Tasered before, They are not the horrible things that they are made out to be. Believe me, they IMMOBILIZE you quick. They are great if used for their intended purpose. To me (and officers I know) that purpose is diffusing a potentially deadly situation, which neither of these traffic stops were. Now, if the first driver had pulled out a knife or threatened the officer physically in some way I might agree with the use, but obviously that was not wat happened.
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    Senior Member Tuddi's Avatar
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    Thank you for your very civilized response. Highly apreciated! And it's good to see that even though we're probably lightyears apart when it comes to politics, a common ground can still be found.

    I think the most fitting label I could give myself politically, would be "anarchist"... but in the spirit of anarchism, I am not very much for falling into acceptance of what anarchism is normally understood as.

    I think the reality is more along the lines of me not fitting into any known political box...
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    Senior Member LordDurock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuddi View Post
    Thank you for your very civilized response. Highly apreciated! And it's good to see that even though we're probably lightyears apart when it comes to politics, a common ground can still be found.

    I think the most fitting label I could give myself politically, would be "anarchist"... but in the spirit of anarchism, I am not very much for falling into acceptance of what anarchism is normally understood as.

    I think the reality is more along the lines of me not fitting into any known political box...
    now that would be a scary world.

    let think about this. we cant excape being govenerened. the best way to show this is no matter what you do there are some sorts of rules. in thinking that we in the US have lost track of what it this means for us. like people have said in this tread and i total agree with is the small small thing. more latter.................phone

    Quote Originally Posted by LordDurock
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