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Thread: 89 Cutlass Ciera Race Car Build

  1. #16
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Nice to see progress! I know how your friend laying on top of the motor feels! At least it wasn't a HOT motor he was all over!

    David



  2. #17
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    It was warm, which when its about 30 out it actually made it a nice place to be.

  3. #18
    Senior Member jlattyak's Avatar
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    That was me sitting on the engine, it was not a bad place to be on that cold day, but I wish I hadn't been threading the sensor in father when I was trying to remove it.

    So we have a breaks questions maybe someone can answer. The Car has the JA1 brake package, we need to replace the rotors and the calipers on the front and the drums on the back. Should we look into getting the parts that came on the wagon? I imagine that they are more heavy duty parts, but will they bolt on without any modification? also are the wagon breaks the JA2/ JA8 option? If we should just stick with JA1 or get the wagon parts any recommendations on what manufacture we should get parts from? or will the $15 rotors and $16 calipers from O'Reilly work for what we are doing?

    Thanks,

    JL

  4. #19
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    If you want to use JA2 brakes, you'll need a new hub and possibly new axles, since I think the splines will be different. Or you can get the JA2 parts and just redrill the rotor for the JA1 pattern. I don't know the difference in braking between the two, since all the A-bodies I've owned have had JA2 brakes.
    Daniel
    Kaiser George IX: 1996 Buick Century Special wagon. 214-SFI. 201k miles. Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Transmission time, again. First documented LX9 swap in an A-body! Click here to read my build thread!
    Goldilocks: 1992 Buick Century Special sedan. 204-MFI. 132k miles. Current DD.
    Susana: 1993 Buick Century Custom wagon. 204-MFI. 121k miles. Garage ornament. Waiting for an LR4.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Prospeeder's Avatar
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    I wouldnt bother w/ JA2, plus you get opend to TONS of wheels w. the 5x100 pattern
    "Pontiac, Of Course"
    1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix 3.1T
    1998 Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T
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    1991 Audi 200 Auto
    1980 VW Dasher Diesel

  6. #21
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prospeeder View Post
    I wouldnt bother w/ JA2, plus you get opend to TONS of wheels w. the 5x100 pattern
    Which is why I also said to redrill the JA2 rotor with the JA1 pattern.
    Daniel
    Kaiser George IX: 1996 Buick Century Special wagon. 214-SFI. 201k miles. Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Transmission time, again. First documented LX9 swap in an A-body! Click here to read my build thread!
    Goldilocks: 1992 Buick Century Special sedan. 204-MFI. 132k miles. Current DD.
    Susana: 1993 Buick Century Custom wagon. 204-MFI. 121k miles. Garage ornament. Waiting for an LR4.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Prospeeder's Avatar
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    ahh that could work
    "Pontiac, Of Course"
    1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix 3.1T
    1998 Audi A4 Quattro 1.8T
    1999 Audi A6 Quattro Wagon
    1991 Audi 200 Auto
    1980 VW Dasher Diesel

  8. #23
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    JA2 brakes will make a normal, controlled stop* from 110+ MPH, without fade, with no damage or warping. I have carefully tested this on my turbocharged cars in an open area; so I know what to expect if I get crazy with it on the highway.

    I haven't had a car with JA1 brakes to compare. The JA2's have always seemed adequate; but I am one to "watch ahead" and avoid panic stops anyway.

    * By that I mean, stopping to a dead stop, as quick as possible ONCE from110, then allowing the brakes to cool through normal driving. Not talking about repeated stops, autocross or any other type of racing.

    David

  9. #24
    Senior Member jlattyak's Avatar
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    We don't have the facilities to drill a new pattern in to a rotor so we will be using a rotor with a 5x100 patern in it. I also don't trust us to mod something that might keep the car from stopping. I was just wondering what the difference between the calipers is, if there is any. We also need to start looking at what break pads we should run.

    Any one have any preferred manufactures for break parts/ pads?

  10. #25
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Redrilling the rotor doesn't compromise it, AFAIK. Fiero guys redrill Corvette rotors for the 5x100 pattern quite often, and I haven't heard of any failures.
    Daniel
    Kaiser George IX: 1996 Buick Century Special wagon. 214-SFI. 201k miles. Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Transmission time, again. First documented LX9 swap in an A-body! Click here to read my build thread!
    Goldilocks: 1992 Buick Century Special sedan. 204-MFI. 132k miles. Current DD.
    Susana: 1993 Buick Century Custom wagon. 204-MFI. 121k miles. Garage ornament. Waiting for an LR4.

  11. #26
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    might not compromise it normally but we would probably screw up the patter and have to do it at least twice.

    I know for the races people have tried drilling to make vented brakes which typically causes the holes to shred the pads and then clog with the material from the brakes.

  12. #27
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons bob View Post
    might not compromise it normally but we would probably screw up the patter and have to do it at least twice.

    I know for the races people have tried drilling to make vented brakes which typically causes the holes to shred the pads and then clog with the material from the brakes.
    Lol! Cross-drilld rotors have to be done a certain way. I can't remember the exact size of the holes at the moment but it is near 3/16" or thereabout. The holes must be straight; and chamfered with a larger chamfering bit than normally used for a 3/16" hole. The placement of the holes is critical, too. All of the pad surface must contact holes as the rotor turns.

    When I worked at the BMW shop several customers had done this on their cars with perfect success.

    David

  13. #28
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons bob View Post
    might not compromise it normally but we would probably screw up the patter and have to do it at least twice.
    Now that I think about it, why not use Grand Am brakes? They're larger than stock JA1 but have the 5 x 100 pattern. Fiero guys use them as a stock upgrade. They have to be from '98 or older though, since the redesign in '99 uses JM4 ABS brakes.
    Daniel
    Kaiser George IX: 1996 Buick Century Special wagon. 214-SFI. 201k miles. Never gonna give you up, never gonna let you down. Transmission time, again. First documented LX9 swap in an A-body! Click here to read my build thread!
    Goldilocks: 1992 Buick Century Special sedan. 204-MFI. 132k miles. Current DD.
    Susana: 1993 Buick Century Custom wagon. 204-MFI. 121k miles. Garage ornament. Waiting for an LR4.

  14. #29
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    Since we were waiting for some parts to get in we started stripping the interior. We pretty much took everything out except for the dash, and we did put the front seats back in.

    Here are the piles we took out.




    Here is what is left in there





    And yesteday the muffler came in, so we can get to redoing the exhaust in a couple weeks.

  15. #30
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons bob View Post
    Since we were waiting for some parts to get in we started stripping the interior. We pretty much took everything out except for the dash, and we did put the front seats back in.

    Here are the piles we took out.

    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/...8d248261e2.jpg
    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/...a93985fbc0.jpg

    Here is what is left in there

    http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/...99c3cabcec.jpg
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2710/...17c0e04b60.jpg
    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2686/...1ec40b7e82.jpg

    And yesteday the muffler came in, so we can get to redoing the exhaust in a couple weeks.
    Wow you really lightened it up!

    If you don't plan to return it to street use, you might want to list the removed items in the For Sale section here. Someone could get some use of it!

    Good luck at the race!
    David

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