Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 206

Thread: Project Danielle - 1984 Cutlass Ciera Diesel - Engine repairs and restoration...

  1. #16
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,718

    Default

    Yep I got the exhaust gaskets. As for the chain, if you can get it - go for it. I believe I had a problem finding that for mine. Danielle's chain is OK but any time you rebuild it's a good idea to replace it.



  2. #17
    Senior Member Doc Salvage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Center Point Alabama
    Vehicle
    1994 Ciera, 3.1 MPI
    Posts
    198

    Default

    amazing work you folks are doing---wow!

  3. #18
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sugar Land, TX
    Vehicle
    1996 Buick Century Limited 3100 V6 / 1995 Buick Century Special 3100 V6 / 2001 Chevy S-10 LS 2.2L
    Posts
    4,071

    Default

    Amazing work David! Just looking at the failure mode of that engine reminded me that what gets them all, not just the diesel, is cooling. It all seems to come back around to cooling almost every time. When these cars start to age, the cooling systems have to be watched because when we least expect it, we get sniped by a low coolant condition either by a slow leak or a blown head gasket...or a LIM for us 3100 owners.

    Ken T.

  4. #19
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,718

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Century7667 View Post
    Amazing work David! Just looking at the failure mode of that engine reminded me that what gets them all, not just the diesel, is cooling. It all seems to come back around to cooling almost every time. When these cars start to age, the cooling systems have to be watched because when we least expect it, we get sniped by a low coolant condition either by a slow leak or a blown head gasket...or a LIM for us 3100 owners.

    Ken T.
    And what really sucks is that some of these cars came with NO TEMPERATURE GAUGE so you can't see an upward trend of coolant temperature. So without warning, the idiot light comes on. Then it's too late and you have problems.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Papadopoulos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Vehicle
    1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham 3.8 "Lady Liberty", 1979 MGB Roadster
    Posts
    336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    NO TEMPERATURE GAUGE
    The Italian diesel I posted a few days ago did have a full dash with temperature gauge. Isn't it possible to do a full dash conversion in order to prevent future problems?
    1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera "Lady Liberty" - Under (slow) progress LG3 to LN3 3.8 V6.
    1979 MG MGB Roadster - Running like a dream.

  6. #21
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,718

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Papadopoulos View Post
    The Italian diesel I posted a few days ago did have a full dash with temperature gauge. Isn't it possible to do a full dash conversion in order to prevent future problems?
    That's the plan! I have a complete, full-gauges cluster for a 1984 Olds Ciera. Will be installing that at some point. It will provide both temp gauge and light; and oil pressure gauge and light.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Papadopoulos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Vehicle
    1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham 3.8 "Lady Liberty", 1979 MGB Roadster
    Posts
    336

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    That's the plan! I have a complete, full-gauges cluster for a 1984 Olds Ciera. Will be installing that at some point. It will provide both temp gauge and light; and oil pressure gauge and light.
    Very nice! I only wonder how you'll make the tachometer work, since you don't have an ignition signal from a diesel engine, unless you have a sensor for the engine speed.
    1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera "Lady Liberty" - Under (slow) progress LG3 to LN3 3.8 V6.
    1979 MG MGB Roadster - Running like a dream.

  8. #23
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,718

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Papadopoulos View Post
    Very nice! I only wonder how you'll make the tachometer work, since you don't have an ignition signal from a diesel engine, unless you have a sensor for the engine speed.
    Very good observation! I've thought up two possible ways to do this. One way is to install a speed sensor in the bellhousing. This would give a signal to the tach just like a gas engine ignition system.

    The other option is to use the alternator stator AC output as a tach signal. This may require more custom electronic parts but no mounting a sensor anywhere. It's a toss-up! Many old mechanical diesels used the alternator for a tach signal.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Papadopoulos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Vehicle
    1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera Brougham 3.8 "Lady Liberty", 1979 MGB Roadster
    Posts
    336

    Default

    Sounds like a great solution! I'm looking forward to see how you'll do it.
    1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera "Lady Liberty" - Under (slow) progress LG3 to LN3 3.8 V6.
    1979 MG MGB Roadster - Running like a dream.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Ray_McAvoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sherman, ME
    Vehicle
    74 Nova, 77 Nova, 88 Cutlass Ciera
    Posts
    311

    Default

    Great project you guys have going!! Looks like you're making good progress despite the little setbacks. I know what that's like ... had an air compressor motor burn out in the middle of a project last summer too ... guess I can't complain too much though, it was 57 years old

    Quote Originally Posted by Papadopoulos View Post
    I only wonder how you'll make the tachometer work ...
    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    One way is to install a speed sensor in the bellhousing. This would give a signal to the tach just like a gas engine ignition system.
    I believe that was the method that GM used to provide a tach signal in most of their 70's & 80's medium duty trucks with diesel engines. And (although it doesn't make any difference as far as this is concerned) I've noticed that those truck tachs use the same basic circuit design as the ones available in these cars.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    The CV shafts out. Notice someone had a clue. In the past, they put Antiseize Paste on the splines. This makes it much easier to get the shafts out of the hubs!
    You can say that again! It'd be great if car manufacturers would do that on the assembly line. Along with applying antiseize to the outer part of the hub/bearing assembly where it fits into the steering knuckle. That would sure make replacing hub/bearing assemblies a lot easier.

  11. #26
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    5,718

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray_McAvoy View Post
    Great project you guys have going!! Looks like you're making good progress despite the little setbacks. I know what that's like ... had an air compressor motor burn out in the middle of a project last summer too ... guess I can't complain too much though, it was 57 years old
    Yeah, that was an oldie but a goodie. The one I had on my compressor has a long history. It came from my uncle's dairy farm. So I may try to find a shop who will rewind it. They all say it's not cost-effective because they can sell you a Chinese motor for less than the cost of a rewind. However that is not acceptable. I've got to find a shop who will take me seriously enough to actually look at the motor and see if their equipment can rewind this small of a stator.

    I believe that was the method that GM used to provide a tach signal in most of their 70's & 80's medium duty trucks with diesel engines. And (although it doesn't make any difference as far as this is concerned) I've noticed that those truck tachs use the same basic circuit design as the ones available in these cars.
    It would be fairly easy to calculate the ratio of frequency to engine RPM. Alternator rotor poles to get cycles per rotation of alternator; then factor it by pulley ratio to get alternator rotations per engine rotation. I'm just going to make up some numbers (I'm not at the car) that are plausible for a comparison.We know that the 6 cylinder tach is looking for a 3X signal (3 pulses per engine revolution).

    Most alternators have a 6 pole configuration, which will give 3 complete AC sine waves per shaft rotation.
    The engine pulley is at least 2 times the size of the alternator pulley.

    Calculate this out, and you have 3*2 which is 6. So with my conservative, guess numbers it would read twice the frequency of the 6 cylinder gas engine's ignition system.

    Not sure how much adjustment range the tach has to it. I'm sure it has its limit.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Ray_McAvoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Sherman, ME
    Vehicle
    74 Nova, 77 Nova, 88 Cutlass Ciera
    Posts
    311

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    Yeah, that was an oldie but a goodie. The one I had on my compressor has a long history. It came from my uncle's dairy farm. So I may try to find a shop who will rewind it. They all say it's not cost-effective because they can sell you a Chinese motor for less than the cost of a rewind. However that is not acceptable. I've got to find a shop who will take me seriously enough to actually look at the motor and see if their equipment can rewind this small of a stator.
    I got the same story (not cost effective) when I called a few shops to ask about having my compressor's old motor rewound. Unfortunately, I didn't have a spare motor on hand so I ended up having to buy a new one. I decided to go with a TEFC (totally enclosed fan cooled) "farm duty" motor instead of a typical "compressor duty" motor since they seemed to be better sealed against dust & dirt. I think it was made in Mexico ... hopefully it'll last a good number of years.

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    ...Calculate this out, and you have 3*2 which is 6. So with my conservative, guess numbers it would read twice the frequency of the 6 cylinder gas engine's ignition system.

    Not sure how much adjustment range the tach has to it. I'm sure it has its limit.
    From what I've seen, GM based most of their later 70's & 80's analog tachometers off the National Semiconductor LM1819 air core meter driver IC. The circuit they used is very similar to the one shown in figure 1 of the data sheet (http://www.datasheetlib.com/datashee...html#datasheet) Calculations for selecting the calibration resistor (R2) are on page 4 ... based on a quick look, re-calibrating for roughly double the 6-cyl gas engine frequency looks as though it should still be well within the circuit's limits.

  13. #28
    Senior Member 85_Ciera_Rebuild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    6,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    shop who will rewind it
    I have books boxed up, but if I didn't pitch one of them, I had/have a votech booklet which explains the ABCs of rewinding motors. This was being taught in late 50s/60s in votech schools.

    Do to labor costs, most shops/stores are into "plug-n-play" products, which many times are cheaper when compared to labor cost to fix.

    Huge motors may still be fixed the old fashion way, but small stuff, I'm not aware of one shop.

  14. #29
    Senior Member SilentWing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    NW Suburbs by Chicago
    Vehicle
    1994 Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera S, 1992 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo
    Posts
    1,824

    Default

    Just curious as to why you would use OE non-coated brake lines instead of getting a roll or two of poly-armor and re-forming your own? Only reason I ask is because the car is going back to MI and even if it doesn't see the road salt it will see the humidity/moisture and temperature cycles.

  15. #30
    Senior Member 85_Ciera_Rebuild's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    6,716

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentWing View Post
    Just curious as to why you would use OE non-coated brake lines instead of getting a roll or two of poly-armor.
    Ignorance? The difference being that Poly-Armour® offers 30 times the corrosion resistance of galvanized steel alone. PVF-coated lines are now the standard in many vehicles on the road today, including: Volkswagen/Audi, Honda, Toyota, and Mercedes. Considered a premium line, Poly-Armour® should be used on any vehicle that will see any type of harsh environment including snow, road treatments, salt air, dirt/gravel, etc. When extending the life of the lines is important, Poly-Armour® should also be used, such as on commercial vehicles or when exact OEM replacement is required or desired.

Page 2 of 14 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
VigLink badge