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Thread: Dust Buster Race Car...help needed

  1. #31
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    With the change in diameter of tires you are looking at it won't be a lot, you are talking about 5 mph at 80. You will not get anywhere near the top end for this car at autobahn, although not knowing the shift points of a 4 speed can't say you can't hit the rev limiter on 3rd.

    The shorter tires while losing a bit of top end, you should gain a little acceleration but also improve braking, and with the 24 this year saving brakes will be an issue, talking to Roland we were one of the few teams that didn't have to swap pads, and a bunch of the a and b class teams did it multiple times at the 14. Also will lower your center of gravity, cause you know the whole vehicle is lower, reduce roll of the tires which should reduce roll of the body, and have less unsprung weight.

    However all of it is really a bunch of pretty minor improvements and changes. The wheel weight is probably the biggest thing out of all of it, larger wheels though do give a little more open space which should help cool the brakes and I think when we had 14s the brake heat effected the tires, and definitely raised the tire pressures.

    As for bushings, rubber ones are available everywhere, urethane you may have to actually do the research to find what will fit, I doubt any will be listed as fitting so you might have to shop by dimensions.



  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons bob View Post
    With the change in diameter of tires you are looking at it won't be a lot, you are talking about 5 mph at 80. You will not get anywhere near the top end for this car at autobahn, although not knowing the shift points of a 4 speed can't say you can't hit the rev limiter on 3rd.

    The shorter tires while losing a bit of top end, you should gain a little acceleration but also improve braking, and with the 24 this year saving brakes will be an issue, talking to Roland we were one of the few teams that didn't have to swap pads, and a bunch of the a and b class teams did it multiple times at the 14. Also will lower your center of gravity, cause you know the whole vehicle is lower, reduce roll of the tires which should reduce roll of the body, and have less unsprung weight.

    However all of it is really a bunch of pretty minor improvements and changes. The wheel weight is probably the biggest thing out of all of it, larger wheels though do give a little more open space which should help cool the brakes and I think when we had 14s the brake heat effected the tires, and definitely raised the tire pressures.

    As for bushings, rubber ones are available everywhere, urethane you may have to actually do the research to find what will fit, I doubt any will be listed as fitting so you might have to shop by dimensions.
    If we can stay with the 15's our difference in circumference will be 14% so about 10-11 mph at 80. I still doubt we will ever hit fourth on Gingerman or Autobahn. If we get it together in time...maybe at Barber.

    The Saturn was so light that we ran without mechanical issues at the 14 hours straight and still had about an hour left on our front brakes. We are not even using super fancy pads...just EBC Yellows. All our drives are pretty kind to the car which helps.

    By the way, let me know if you want to come out any weekend and experience the total DOMINATION that is the u-van build. We are doing the build at a teammates garage that is in the far south suburbs...as in the Crete.

  3. #33
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    Crete is only like an hour away from me, Next couple weeks I'm busy but after that I'd be happy to come down and give a hand. Will help me procrastinate tearing apart perfectly good things in hope of making some kind of poorly executed improvements.

  4. #34
    Senior Member thesam1984's Avatar
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    If I remember right 3800s had a high milelage fatal flaw that is easy to catch... there is a plastic connection going from the radiator to the motor and it corrodes and bursts... if dont catch it over heating is easy when this particular one goes... I would replace all the connectors so it doesn't take you out during a race or worse... sorry I wish I knew exactly what the part was but it happened on both Bonneville we had around 200k
    Roads.... Where we're going, we don't need roads.

  5. #35
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    First race we got hit by a couple fuel issues. The fuel pump died, and the fuel injectors were mostly bad. Fuel pump I guess check the pressure if its good you can hope it will last. The injectors if they are shared with the 60 degree you'll want to just get a multimeter and ohm them out. They all should be really close in value if they aren't I would replace all of them. For the 2.8 I want to say they need to ohm at 13 or above, and you ant them all pretty close. After the race when we checked they were all over the place from 13.1 to 2.0

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons bob View Post
    First race we got hit by a couple fuel issues. The fuel pump died, and the fuel injectors were mostly bad. Fuel pump I guess check the pressure if its good you can hope it will last. The injectors if they are shared with the 60 degree you'll want to just get a multimeter and ohm them out. They all should be really close in value if they aren't I would replace all of them. For the 2.8 I want to say they need to ohm at 13 or above, and you ant them all pretty close. After the race when we checked they were all over the place from 13.1 to 2.0
    If you do need injectors I just picked up a rebuilt set from Precision Auto Injectors for my 3.3 for under $100... they have tons and if the 3800 uses the same ones he has too many so they are less expensive
    Roads.... Where we're going, we don't need roads.

  7. #37
    Senior Member 85_Ciera_Rebuild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lemons bob View Post
    For the 2.8
    I suspect for these 2.8 engines an used 19 lb injector would work just fine, and best cross reference I have is

    Bosch 0280 155 746


    and they were used on VOLVO 850 960 S70 V70 C70 V90 S90

    I suspect these 22LB FUEL INJECTORS would work fine for your application.

    Once injectors set around, they can "lock-up," due to gumming up.

    These Gen III injectors are much better...no, not gain in horsepower, but a pinch better fuel economy, and a pinch better torque.

  8. #38
    Senior Member thesam1984's Avatar
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    Those are the ones that Jeep 4.0 uses as an unofficial upgrade... ill have to cross reference but 19lb bosch gen III are what I just purchased... is there any way to keep them from gumming up in storage? You know all that sort of such... , not to hijake this thread because im iching to see pics of this race machine!
    Roads.... Where we're going, we don't need roads.

  9. #39
    Senior Member 85_Ciera_Rebuild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesam1984 View Post
    Those are the ones that Jeep 4.0 uses as an unofficial upgrade...is there any way to keep them from gumming up in storage?
    Yes, and Volvos 240s/740s/940s upgrade also on redblock NA engines.

    In this thread, Preventing Ethanol Blended Fuel Problems , I cited relevant info.

    Spraying WD-40 into injectors while energized briefly will preserve them longer.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85_Ciera_Rebuild View Post
    Yes, and Volvos 240s/740s/940s upgrade also on redblock NA engines.

    In this thread, Preventing Ethanol Blended Fuel Problems , I cited relevant info.

    Spraying WD-40 into injectors while energized briefly will preserve them longer.
    OK, if these use the same Bosch injectors as the red blocks I honestly cannot see them failing. With a combined 1,000,000 on them personally and a regular on the Brickboard I have heard of maybe 3 failures of the injectors...ever. Unless GM has managed to make the third most reliable part on a B230f-equipped Volvo unreliable, this will be way down the list.

  11. #41

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    OK, now that I have my Uplander rear brake upgrade in hand I have a few questions posted over in the upgrades section. In short, need help on the transition line needed to be made up for the existing soft line to the caliper and the sincere hope that I can shave enough on the caliper for the 15" steel wheel to clear.

    This weekend we do a driveway race alignment (hopefully including a significant camber change), change all the rubber hoses, mounting the race seat, and begin the battery relocation/kill switch install. So a couple of question on this as well:

    As the alternator oddly requires a 10V signal from the instrument panel (same ref voltage used for coolant temp and fuel gauge) is this a case where we would need diode inline for the alternator to keep from burning crap out. The kill switch has to kill all power which means the jumper normally installed between the starter and alternator has to be eliminated. On boring alternators this is no problem because you just break the charging circuit as well. For more complex alternators this can cause a coil-discharge-like spike which takes out computers and fuseable links on instrument panel circuit boards.

    The lower strut mount on the Saturn were not "slotted" from the factory for more camber adjustment but the stamp steel two-layer piece with the holes in it apparently already had the rib on the outer stamping to show the GM tech's what metal to grind out for this adjustment. Can I assume the U-Van is the same way?

    For reasons that will probably make no sense, we would like to maintain the electric fore-aft adjustment of the drivers seat. Does this portion of the electric seat easily separate from the rest of the seat?

  12. #42
    Senior Member 85_Ciera_Rebuild's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnkelUdo View Post
    alternator
    See 1-Wire or 3-Wire


    I'm assuming yours is a three wire...

  13. #43
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Yeah, A and U struts have camber adjustment. No grinding is necessary. Just loosen both bolts and move the spindle.

  14. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by 85_Ciera_Rebuild View Post
    See 1-Wire or 3-Wire


    I'm assuming yours is a three wire...
    Actually it would be a four-wire with the description on that pages as the 10V reference voltage is not listed. This is what drives me around the bend. my assumption is due to the direct connection to the IP through the internal regulator that produces the 10V signal we should at the very least protect that circuit but the spike tends to travel down the battery voltage/exciter wire and if that is from the ECU/PCM/PCU or whatever GM calls the engine management computer instead of from the dash, that is the primary risk.

    I will just have to look up the post about wiring the kill switch with the alternator back-feed diode and wire it that way for safety's sake.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke George V View Post
    Yeah, A and U struts have camber adjustment. No grinding is necessary. Just loosen both bolts and move the spindle.
    Good to know. With camber maxed out on those it will be interesting to see if we have to slot the upper strut mounts. The access is tight on these verses standard car hood so hopefully it will not be necessary.

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