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Thread: Assorted ramblings and bolt-ons with Daniel and George

  1. #16
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Stuff occurred! Things happened! POST ON THE INTERNET ABOUT IT!

    The drivetrain is back together. Things were touch-and-go for a while, with a torque converter seal that didn't want to come out, then didn't want to go back in, and me boneheading the fact that the LX9 flywheel has multiple TC bolt patterns to accommodate both the 4T45 and 4T65 transmissions and having a minor freakout about needing to buy new flywheel bolts so I can swap the L82 flywheel over. Note for posterity: One of the bellhousing bolts has fled. I need to go to the yard and scare one up.




    The passenger side engine mount bracket, despite not being used in the car this engine came from (Malibu), had the bolt holes both existing and tapped to mount it. Hurray for unintentional backwards compatibility! I will be using a stock-style solid rubber mount, since this is a "budget" build. I'm sure a polyurethane version exists somewhere, but this will do for now.

    One of the parts included in the 3500 swap kit is this differential bracket, which is modified to fit the 4T60E transmission, rather than the 4T45E the Malibu the engine came from uses. I tried my stock bracket. The bolt holes in the 3.5 block do not line up.


    Another one is this cam position sensor, which is able to read the LX9 cam and clip into my stock harness. Good thing too, since the one on my old engine is more or less welded in there. I figure, if I actually wanted to remove the old cam sensor, I'd have to pull the timing cover.


    Dad.



    dadgif





    Wife and dad mugging for the camera.









    Things went mostly smoothly. I had to remove the transmission mounts to facilitate easier entry, even though it's a right kick in the dick to install the rear mount in situ. I also gaffled a downpipe bolt from the gold wagon since it appears that I either lost or forgot to install one of the two when I was in here last (2014 for a transmission swap). The power plant is currently sitting on a jack because I couldn't close the garage door with the crane holding it up.

    Pictured above in a few shots is an adjustable vacuum modulator for the transmission. This was installed on the junkyard transmission when I bought it, but I swapped it for the stock modulator because of the different positioning of the vacuum nipple (front vs. side). Running some new rubber on the hard line will cure any positioning ails. I'm glad I kept it, since I will need it now to keep the damn gearbox from flying apart at the seams behind this more powerful engine. After dumping half of its fluid on the road late last year, the transmission doesn't shift correctly from first to second. One of my posts on the last page shows a disconcerting amount of clutch material in the pan. I will probably have to adjust this modulator pretty stiffly to counteract the damaged clutches, which will probably end up being annoying to drive, but I will just have to deal with it. The plan is to have another one built some time next year, then do this whole thing all over again. I'm still debating whether I should stay with stock 2.97 gearing or have it re-chained to 3.33. The computer will have to be retuned to compensate, but with a newer style PCM, that isn't an issue.

    List of things still to do before first start:
    • Reinstall transmission mounts.
    • Axles back in to the transmission.
    • Reconnect transmission cooler lines.
    • Bolt downpipe to rear manifold.
    • Wait for the rest of my custom parts to show up, namely:
      —Modified dogbone bracket and requisite head bolt. (This car uses a stud on the end of the forward passenger side head bolt to stabilize the dogbone bracket. Failure to use that stud will result in the bracket breaking. Ask me how I know.) (Torque is 44 ft-lbs + 95 degrees.)
      —L67 fuel injectors and modified fuel rail brackets. (The stock injectors are rated at 19 lbs, which would be insufficient flow for the new engine. L67s are 36 lbs.)
      —Crank trigger to bypass the in-block crank position sensor. (I think the only alternative is to swap the internal trigger wheel from my stock crank to the LX9 crank, which of course requires a teardown of the bottom end, and fuck everything about that if I don't have to.)
      —Throttle body. (Hopefully this will be modded correctly to use my stock throttle linkage, otherwise I have to try to track down a '96 van cable set (good fucking luck).)
      —1997 PCM. (with modified pinout to clip back in to my stock harness and tuned to run this engine and transmission.)
    • Install dogbone bracket and AC compressor.
    • Fuel rail back in with new injectors.
    • Bolt upper intake back on.
    • Attach TB to upper intake and work out an intake hose situation. (I may end up having to use a ricer cone filter if I can't figure out a way to hook up my stock air cleaner with something other than dryer hose. I'm probably going to bypass the TB heater lines, since there really isn't a reason I should need that in Las Vegas.)
    • Drop radiator back in.
    • Alternator.
    • Power steering pump. Gotta get to the yard and get some more bolts for that.
    • Hook up all wiring and hoses.
    • Fill with fluids. Oil, transmission fluid, coolant. Two bottles of Lucas for the transmission, since it will need all the help it can get. I need to remember to pull the thermostat housing off and fill the block first. This should facilitate easier bleeding of the system.
    • Belt.
    • Crossover pipe.
    • Couple more gallons of fuel.
    • Battery.
    • Start!
    • Struts either bolted back on to the knuckles or replaced with the van struts kicking around the garage. (Still need to buy dust boots before they can be assembled.)
    • Front wheels on.
    • On the ground.
    • Drive!
    • Enjoy TWO HUNNERT HOARSPOWAH!


    Easy peasy, right?



  2. #17
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    Good job man !!

  3. #18
    Senior Member SegaGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke George V View Post
    ...The plan is to have another one built some time next year, then do this whole thing all over again. I'm still debating whether I should stay with stock 2.97 gearing or have it re-chained to 3.33. The computer will have to be retuned to compensate, but with a newer style PCM, that isn't an issue....
    Fanstastic job there! I'm not familiar with the LX9, but you are making a strong case for it being a great upgrade path for the 3.1.

    As for the final drive, I'm wondering what the torque curve is for it. If you have plenty of reserve you could keep the stock and have better economy, but depending on your driving style, tire size LX9 torque curve, and stall speed of the converter you used, the 3.33 might really wake things up off the line!
    Last edited by SegaGT; 04-27-2016 at 10:08 PM. Reason: my bad spelling...

  4. #19
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Glad to see it's going your way!

    I highly recommend you to change to the 3.33 final drive. The difference is profound! You will be well rewarded with the performance of that 200 HP engine when it can put a lot of its power to the ground with the stouter gearing.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    I agree with David. The 3.33 final drive makes a lot of sense: 1) It's a wagon, and you haul stuff, 2) I believe the later 60 degree V6 motors a really good breathing motors, so they would probably benefit by turning a bit tighter.

    Ken T.

  6. #21
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SegaGT View Post
    Fanstastic job there! I'm not familiar with the LX9, but you are making a strong case for it being a great upgrade path for the 3.1.
    It's really not that much different than swapping in a stock replacement, other than needing some custom parts and a new computer. It's absolutely more cost-effective.
    Quote Originally Posted by SegaGT View Post
    As for the final drive, I'm wondering what the torque curve is for it. If you have plenty of reserve you could keep the stock and have better economy, but depending on your driving style, tire size, LX9 torque curve, and stall speed of the converter you used, the 3.33 might really wake things up off the line!
    I'm using a "stock stall" converter, a GM42CW recommended by Dave, which I believe is 1895. It'll stall a little higher with the 3.5, but not by that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by turbokinetic View Post
    Glad to see it's going your way!

    I highly recommend you to change to the 3.33 final drive. The difference is profound! You will be well rewarded with the performance of that 200 HP engine when it can put a lot of its power to the ground with the stouter gearing.
    3.33 is a great final for city driving. My old 2.8 Celebrity used to knock down 20 mpg in the city all day long with a 3.33. Some quick back-of-the-napkin calcs says that, with my tire size (25.5"), the engine should be spinning right around 2000 rpm @ 65 mph in 4th with a 3.33, which should bring some equally impressive highway economy; the old Celebrity turned 28-29 mpg on extended trips.

    All of that is further down the road though. I do not have the funding in the budget at this point to have a transmission done up.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Mock-up. This is in no way complete, but it makes me feel better seeing what the finished product will look like.


    During the mock-up, I tried to figure out if I can use my stock intake hose and air cleaner. I mentioned this before, but if I can't make that work, I will have to use some ricer bullshit that will completely ruin the aesthetics of my stock-appearing engine bay. It's difficult to visualize just what position everything will be in when I don't have a throttle body. It's also looking more and more like I'm not going to be able to use my stock cables. However, a member of the A-body board told me over Facebook Messenger yesterday that I might be able to use some from a '96-99 Lumina, which has the newer style throttle body I guess? Instead of being confined to a '96 van, which I've said before is not easy to find in the yards, whereas Luminas are plentiful.

    Marking some more stuff off the list, namely mounts, axles, downpipe and power steering pump, and adding one thing I forgot. You can see it in the upper left of the picture above: the crank pulley. Kinda need that to run the engine.
    • *****Reinstall transmission mounts.*****
    • *****Axles back in to the transmission.*****
    • *****Bolt downpipe to rear manifold.*****
    • Wait for the rest of my custom parts to show up, namely:
      —Modified dogbone bracket and requisite head bolt. (This car uses a stud on the end of the forward passenger side head bolt to stabilize the dogbone bracket. Failure to use that stud will result in the bracket breaking. Ask me how I know.) (Torque is 44 ft-lbs + 95 degrees.)
      —L67 fuel injectors and modified fuel rail brackets. (The stock injectors are rated at 19 lbs, which would be insufficient flow for the new engine. L67s are 36 lbs.)
      —Crank trigger to bypass the in-block crank position sensor. (I think the only alternative is to swap the internal trigger wheel from my stock crank to the LX9 crank, which of course requires a teardown of the bottom end, and fuck everything about that if I don't have to.)
      —Throttle body. (Hopefully this will be modded correctly to use my stock throttle linkage, otherwise I have to try to track down a '96 van cable set (good fucking luck).)
      —1997 PCM. (with modified pinout to clip back in to my stock harness and tuned to run this engine and transmission.)
    • Crank on the crank pulley.
    • Install dogbone bracket and AC compressor.
    • Fuel rail back in with new injectors.
    • Bolt upper intake back on.
    • Attach TB to upper intake and work out an intake hose situation. (I may end up having to use a ricer cone filter if I can't figure out a way to hook up my stock air cleaner with something other than dryer hose. I'm probably going to bypass the TB heater lines, since there really isn't a reason I should need that in Las Vegas.)
    • Drop radiator back in.
    • Reconnect transmission cooler lines.
    • Cooling fan.
    • Alternator.
    • *****Power steering pump. Gotta get to the yard and get some more bolts for that.***** It's fine. Two out of three bolts held it together for three years before this.
    • Hook up all wiring and hoses.
    • Fill with fluids. Oil, transmission fluid, coolant. Two bottles of Lucas for the transmission, since it will need all the help it can get. I need to remember to pull the thermostat housing off and fill the block first. This should facilitate easier bleeding of the system.
    • Belt.
    • Crossover pipe.
    • Couple more gallons of fuel.
    • Battery.
    • Start!
    • Struts either bolted back on to the knuckles or replaced with the van struts kicking around the garage. (Still need to buy dust boots before they can be assembled.)
    • Front wheels on.
    • On the ground.
    • Drive!
    • Enjoy TWO HUNNERT HOARSPOWAH!


    Also, I think I'm going to just bypass the throttle body heater hoses, since that seems to be the main reason I would need to use my stock LIM coolant pipe.

    Also also, it looks like I managed to fuck something up. There is a split in the driver's side inner CV boot. It's small right now, but I'm sure it will completely fly apart the first time I try to drive it. Can something like that be repaired with, say, a bicycle tube patch? I'd rather not have to buy another $70 axle.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Daniel,

    I'd be real interested in the details of how you are handling the dog-bone with some pics. I'm still trying to source a replacement bushing for the dogbone bracket that bolts to the radiator core support. Can't find that square bushing anywhere.

    Ken T.

  9. #24
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    For the torque strut, I've been using an old-style aluminum one; I swapped the wishbone one over to the yellow sedan some time ago. I may have posted this in another thread, but ZZPerformance offers polyurethane square bushings and polyurethane round wishbone bushings. You get two of them, since they're supposed to be for W-bodies, which use two dogbones. I think you have to burn the old ones out, and the new ones are two piece. Just slide them in.

  10. #25
    Senior Member turbokinetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke George V View Post
    Mock-up. This is in no way complete, but it makes me feel better seeing what the finished product will look like.
    ........

    Also also, it looks like I managed to fuck something up. There is a split in the driver's side inner CV boot. It's small right now, but I'm sure it will completely fly apart the first time I try to drive it. Can something like that be repaired with, say, a bicycle tube patch? I'd rather not have to buy another $70 axle.
    Daniel, it's looking good. Once at the mockup stage, things really start to take shape.

    As for the CV boot - no, they are not repairable. The material is silicone-based and it's heat-set. There's really no way to successfully bond it. However, the boot not expensive and it's not hard to replace it either. You will probably need to order the boot because the cheapie stores mostly stock the small ones for the little import cars.

    Sincerely,
    David

  11. #26
    Junior Member LG3HDStereo's Avatar
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    That is one sweet wagon.

  12. #27
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke George V View Post
    For the torque strut, I've been using an old-style aluminum one; I swapped the wishbone one over to the yellow sedan some time ago. I may have posted this in another thread, but ZZPerformance offers polyurethane square bushings and polyurethane round wishbone bushings. You get two of them, since they're supposed to be for W-bodies, which use two dogbones. I think you have to burn the old ones out, and the new ones are two piece. Just slide them in.
    Daniel,

    Found the square bushing from the link you provided. Just to be clear, I am looking for the bushing that fits the strut mount that bolts to the radiator core support (not the dogbone itself). Are we talking about the same bushing?

    Thanks!
    Ken T.

  13. #28
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    The square ones fit the header panel bracket, and the round ones fit the wishbone.

  14. #29
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke George V View Post
    The square ones fit the header panel bracket, and the round ones fit the wishbone.
    Thanks Daniel! I ordered them!

    Ken T.

  15. #30
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    Hey Daniel not sure if your throttle body got to you I did look at the junk yard and saw the 97 Chevy Monte Carlo you can hook up from your gas pedal to the throttle body you need the bracket that comes with the 3100 for that year . The cruise control isn't a match cause gm switched over to a different cable method and it's not changeable to the 95-96 a-body . I did see a 95 olds cutlass 3100 with the same cruise control and different connectors to the throttle body . I think it's going to be a mid match finding which ones work but it's not hard at all . Soon as you get your throttle body back send me a pm . Hope it helps Keith

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