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Thread: Assorted ramblings and bolt-ons with Daniel and George

  1. #31
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Axle ordered, should be here on Thursday.

    In non-news news, the lack of updates has been due in large part to my lack of parts. I still need several parts to finish these up, but haven't received them from Milzy. I got in touch with him today though, and he will be sending the rest of my stuff out in the next couple days. The throttle body, linkage, and cables are still a big hang-up though.

    Mike tells me that my car, despite having a Chevy V6, uses a Buick V6 throttle body and linkage, which is goofy as hell and makes it almost impossible to adapt to a new-style Chevy V6 throttle body. The throttle and cruise cables will most certainly have to be swapped, but with what? is the question. Also, the EGR valve I got from a yard has a slightly different connector than my stock one. It has "keyways", I guess you could call them, while my stock connector does not. I'll have to get another EGR I suppose. That or modify the connector with a dremel or something.

    Click for biggerer.




  2. #32
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    You could go get that actual connector from the car you took the egr off of and snip the wires long enough and swap them out . If you know the year of that car they sell a connector at Autozone just have to match it sir . Like I said with the linkage before you could do a few things if you find that cable to fit the throttle body almost all gm cars and trucks use the same plastic connector from the pedal through to the firewall and just change the ends to the throttle body . As far as the cruise control linkage if the 97 pcm is set up to control the cruise more or less via computer in which you grab get the whole cruise control assembly with cable and modify it from the car you grab the throttle linkage from . So if the 3400 throttle body is used from a 97-99 u van grab the bracket and pedal cable and cruise Control unit and cable . You might run in parts matching with the maf in the throttle body and have to use the newer style near the air cleaner if they can't modify the throttle linkage . I'd have to look on the 3.4 dohc motor with the cables as well . I'd use what ever throttle body Mike gets you then find the cables for the year he got it from worse case . Hope this helps Daniel

  3. #33
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Daniel,

    Did you consider using at 3400 TB setup? Perhaps the displacement being so close it may have been a good fit? ....or, is this a package deal, whereby the sensors and TB must come together?

    Thanks,
    Ken T.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Which sensors do you mean, Ken? I mean, pretty much everything attached to the throttle body has to come with whatever TB I end up using, but just for everyone's edification, I will be using a 56 mm LA1 throttle body. That's why I keep complaining about the throttle cable being the "final" hang-up, since my Buick-style cable bracket won't bolt on to the new style TB.

    As an aside, it really blows me away that literally every other car that got the 3100 in the 90s uses the "new style" throttle body. Why the hell did GM use this oddball Buick-type TB? It's very close in design to the one on my 3300 Century.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    Maf sensor isn't attached on the newer 3100 -3400 throttle bodies there attached to the air cleaner box assembly. Tps an idle air control valve does come with it and maybe uses the same plugs as what you have Daniel . The Tps might have a different connector depending on how new it is . I think I could be wrong being a 96 Buick felt to mess with a Chevy motor as there own personal touch lol . Let's leave these on it yet the throttle body is unique to just the a bodies only . The tps uses a small lever on the top of the Tps to rotate as the throttle plate closes . The others I have seen is attached on top of the throttle body shaft and bolted on to it . Little personal touches cause if you look on the 96 and later W- body cars Buick motors all used the Chevy linkages . I think that was buicks last call on design to a car or added personal touches .

  6. #36
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke George V View Post
    Which sensors do you mean, Ken? I mean, pretty much everything attached to the throttle body has to come with whatever TB I end up using, but just for everyone's edification, I will be using a 56 mm LA1 throttle body. That's why I keep complaining about the throttle cable being the "final" hang-up, since my Buick-style cable bracket won't bolt on to the new style TB.

    As an aside, it really blows me away that literally every other car that got the 3100 in the 90s uses the "new style" throttle body. Why the hell did GM use this oddball Buick-type TB? It's very close in design to the one on my 3300 Century.
    Are you saying that the LG8 3100 and the 3400 use a different style harness and throttle setup than the L82 that came as original equipment? My hope was that the 3400 TB would be an easy bolt on, throttle cables and harness (TPS, IAC, etc.).

    Ken T.

  7. #37
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Century7667 View Post
    Are you saying that the LG8 3100 and the 3400 use a different style harness and throttle setup than the L82 that came as original equipment? My hope was that the 3400 TB would be an easy bolt on, throttle cables and harness (TPS, IAC, etc.).

    Ken T.
    Yes. It's even more basic than that. The A-body L82's throttle body mounts completely differently, using three studs, while the LG8/LA1 have two. I will go to the yard tomorrow on a research mission, and will take pictures to illustrate the differences.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Okay, so summer swept into Las Vegas over the last week, so it's been too damn hot to get much of anything accomplished. I did receive the last of the custom parts from Milzy, so I put a bit of work into the car, including installing the new computer (I'll post pictures of the PCM location later) and figuring out some other A-body-specific hangups. I've made a list of everything I can think of offhand below.

    My notes for A-bodies:
    -Several wiring modifications must be made...
    --Extending the coolant temperature sensor harness if you have a three pin sensor. Mike does not supply a three pin extension, despite it being an option on the website. See below for a different approach.
    --The mass air flow sensor wiring has to be modified. The connector is the same, but the B and C wires must be swapped.
    --The throttle position sensor connector must be changed over to the new style. The stock TPS will not work on the new throttle body.
    -Unless you can make yourself a throttle body adapter, you have to use the "new-style" throttle body. The stock throttle body will not bolt on to the new intake, and the cables will not work, since the linkage is totally different.
    -I decided on a throttle cable from a '97 Lumina, and I had Mike send me a 56 mm LA1 throttle body with a matching Lumina linkage. No need to try and find a '96 van in the yard. The only modification that needs to be done is in the firewall where the cable enters the cabin. The stock cable uses a square clip, but the Lumina's is round. You'll need to "massage" the opening so the connector fits. Once you hook the other end of the cable to the bracket on the throttle body, there's no need to worry about length. It pulls the throttle open fully with no issues.
    -Cruise control appears to be trickier, assuming you want to retain it (you do). The Lumina cable has a different clip style where it enters the cruise module, again being round where the stock one is square. I'm still working out a solution, but it will probably involve removing the cable from the Lumina sheathe and putting it in the stock one, and using a cable end clamp (HELP! part number 03336, $3 from any Autozone) on the throttle end.
    -The dogbone bracket is incompatible with the LX9 block. It will not bolt on. None of the lower bolt holes line up with anything on the block. The bracket Mike sends in his swap kit will bolt on to the block, but since the A-body's AC compressor is "old-style" and bolts to the bracket, whereas the "new-style" compressor bolts to the block, you won't be able to use your stock AC compressor. A temporary solution is purchasing an AC bypass pulley for a W-body Century (2001 as an example) and removing your stock compressor, and just dealing without AC for now. It may be possible to adapt the new-style compressor, but it seems like it will need either custom refrigerant hoses, or hoses cribbed from another car. The A-body compressor's refrigerant hoses enter the compressor housing from the back, and the new-style ones enter on top.
    -Mike recommends using the LX9 upper intake and teeing various lines off the single vacuum port available. I'm not really a fan of that idea. I am using an LG8 3100 upper, since it has vacuum nipples in all the stock locations and keeps a stock appearance.
    -Using an LG8 upper, LA1 throttle body, and new-style mass air flow sensor, you can use your stock air cleaner housing and intake hose in the stock location to maintain a stock appearance. You will need a silicone coupler to mate the throttle body to the mass air flow sensor. I measured the MAF opening at about 3-1/4, and the maximum diameter of the TB opening (it is oval) at about 3-3/8. Try to get a black one to minimize riciness.
    -The L67 (supercharged Buick V6) fuel injectors I got will clip into the stock harness, but they will need to be modified to work with the stock fuel rail. On the stock injectors, there is a groove in the upper portion of the body where the little metal clip that holds it into the rail is seated. This groove exists on the L67 injector, but it does not extend fully around the body. Naturally, the groove is missing in the exact position needed to use the stock metal clips. I will need to extend the groove in these areas.
    -Use your stock heater tube, which is the black metal pipe that pokes out of the top of the water pump housing. If you get a junkyard engine, like I did, the one that comes with the engine will probably be clipped off and unusable anyway. This allows you to run the stock heater core hoses in the stock locations.
    -Using the stock water-pump-side and LX9 lower-intake-side heater tubes, there won't be anywhere for you to run the TB heater hoses. Don't bother. It's not really necessary, unless you live somewhere incredibly cold. If so, just have the lower intake tapped to match your stock piece.
    -If you've removed the LIM to tap that, you might as well go ahead and drill and tap for the coolant temperature sensor in the stock location, which is just next to where the thermostat is installed. Check your stock LIM for reference. That's the only reason I have to mess with my stock CTS wiring. I don't know what size it is. Take a new stock sensor with you to the machine shop. They should be able to figure it out from there.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    Glad that helps Daniel the cruise control motor itself u could take it apart and see if both can be swapped to another I knew the wiring is the same mostly the connector was . The cable I think you could but I looked at a 97 and pulled it out and took it off the sheeth cable inside it I'm sure the spring and mechanism inside could be swapped around . Hope that helps Keith

  10. #40
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    Made a little bit of headway today. I went to a speed shop and picked up this silicone coupler to join the throttle body and mass air flow sensor body. For reference, it is a 3" to 3-1/4" coupler. I spent more than I wanted to, but it fits perfectly.



    And here is probably the last mock-up I will do. This is more or less complete in appearance.


  11. #41
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    After some digging around at the yard over the weekend, I have discovered the solution to my air conditioning problem. A 1996 Pontiac Grand Am 3.1L (or, more accurately, any '94-'98 V6 N-body except the Malibu) has a compressor body that will bolt to the LX9 dogbone bracket and has the refrigerant hoses in the correct position.

    '94-'98 N-body:


    '96 Century:
    Last edited by Duke George V; 08-22-2016 at 06:30 PM.

  12. #42
    Senior Member CorvairGeek's Avatar
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    The mounting variances of the V5 compressor are staggering.
    Jerry

  13. #43
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorvairGeek View Post
    The mounting variances of the V5 compressor are staggering.
    A very ubiquitous compressor. I've got 3 of them in service in my fleet, and I have to say, they've all been great. The original on my '96 went 12 years, and had I known it could be resealed....I would have resealed it. Someone got a good core!

    Ken T.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Duke George V's Avatar
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    • Drop radiator back in.
    • Reconnect transmission cooler lines.
    • Cooling fan.
    • Alternator.
    • Install dogbone bracket and compressor bypass pulley.
    • Hook up all wiring and hoses.
    • Fill with fluids. Oil, transmission fluid, coolant. Two bottles of Lucas for the transmission, since it will need all the help it can get.
    • Belt.
    • Couple more gallons of fuel.
    • Battery.
    • Start!
    • Drive!
    • Enjoy TWO HUNNERT HOARSPOWAH!


    L67 injectors jammed into fuel rail.


    Fuel rail back into lower intake.


    One of the mounting bolts for the EGR touching one of the fuel lines. This is no bueno. I took it out and installed a shorter bolt.


    Pretty much done for the day.


    I still need to splice in a new connector for the throttle position sensor. The LG8/LA1 use a completely different connector than the L82. The number and colors of the wires are the same, so I just need to match them up. I am also going to the yard tomorrow to see if I can find a car that uses the same style cruise control module as my car with the new-style linkage. I really don't want to be without cruise.

    Almost there!

  15. #45
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    Great work on your car my friend . As far as the cruise control that's going to be the biggest pain since no other gm used the same cruise control module . Maybe the same connectors and wires but the linkage is different . I'm curious if the same year as your car Chevy throttle cable but different brand of car that it the actual internal linkage can be swapped around and over to the buicks cruise control . 97 lumina ,Monte Carlo, century , grand am Grand Prix . I never opened up the buicks cruise control module to see how it connects inside . Some have different styles to connect to the base of the cruise control module . This will be the task my friend . But I'm glad your getting her closer together . Keep us posted thanks Keith . If I find out something I will message you

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