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Thread: 1994 Olds Ciera needs new evaporator

  1. #16
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    Thanks everyone. The tear down has begun, and new parts are on the way. I went with the Fel-Pro gasket set, always have good luck with them, and it includes all the various little pieces too (valve cover bolts, EGR etc). Hoping to have it back together in a few weeks time. Not a primary vehicle, and I'm only going to get a few hours a week to work on it. I will say that the flush of the radiator seems to have cleaned things up nicely, but there's a little white-ish goop in the oil fill cap so LIM gaskets are for sure needed!



  2. #17
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    Some pics from today's progress:
    https://goo.gl/photos/ToRs16zE7kqfXYBG7

  3. #18
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    I've done this job twice on two different L82 3100 engines. It is absolutely critical that you get the correct gasket set. If you don't mind, what was the part number of your kit? Be sure you have the small port 3100 LIM gaskets, and get the "perma dry" metal problem solver gaskets. if they are plastic; return them or will be doing the job again in about 60k miles. Also, if for some reason, if you get LIM bolts, beware of a catalog error at GM and FelPro ( Amazon reviews will confirm this). If you order bolts from the catalog, you'll get the wrong bolts for the ends. They'll be too short. Those bolts on the ends should look just like the ones form the UIM. Of course, you can reuse the old ones with fresh thread lock.

    Ken T.

  4. #19
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    Gasket set: Fel-Pro PermaDry MS98004T:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    As for bolts, these aren't torque-to-yield, so I reuse 'em.

    No progress today, had other projects around the place that took precedence. I did line up some new parts washer solvent for about $10/gallon, so the parts washer is gonna get cleaned up and refreshed so I can clean everything off really good. It'll be nice to have clean intake/valve covers again. I don't know if you caught the pics, but between the UIM and LIM a mouse had moved in with his family at some point.

    I am going to need a new belt tensioner, and forgot to get new fuel injector o-rings, so that'll have to happen as well. It's nice to not be in a rush to get it back together!

  5. #20
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skills4lou View Post
    Gasket set: Fel-Pro PermaDry MS98004T:
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    As for bolts, these aren't torque-to-yield, so I reuse 'em.

    No progress today, had other projects around the place that took precedence. I did line up some new parts washer solvent for about $10/gallon, so the parts washer is gonna get cleaned up and refreshed so I can clean everything off really good. It'll be nice to have clean intake/valve covers again. I don't know if you caught the pics, but between the UIM and LIM a mouse had moved in with his family at some point.

    I am going to need a new belt tensioner, and forgot to get new fuel injector o-rings, so that'll have to happen as well. It's nice to not be in a rush to get it back together!
    That's the correct set! Yeah, nothing special on these bolts. Be sure to clean out the threads in the bores that will receive the bolts! I chased mine with q-tips, and then ran a bolt through each one repeatedly, wiping it off each time until they came out clean. This is important in order to get accurate bold torques. We're talking inch-lbs here, so we need it to be correct. There is a tightening pattern, basically inner bolts first then outside ones, and there's staged tightening sequence. Some have published higher bolt torques, and I tried to go there, but in the end you are threading into aluminum with a smallish bolt. I went beyond factory, but wasn't able to get to those torques posted on the 60degree V6 site. I just lost my nerve, my "kenny sense" was telling me stop right there!

    Take your time on the gasket surfaces of the LIM and heads. If you are careful with a single edge razor blade, you can use that for a scraper, and I like acetone to get everything oil free. Lots of recommendations around here for thread locker / sealants of the bolts. David Allen had an interesting one with teflon that I was intrigued by, but I had already purchased some new bolts.

    If you remove the injectors from the rail, be nice to the injector clips, they are difficult (not impossible) to find. AC/Delco all the way on the o-rings, and use an approved o-ring grease to get that thing to sit down nicely.

    It's a real shame that Photobucket screwed everyone over. I did TWO write up on how to do this with loads and loads of pics. Since I am stuck in the house riding out the flooding disaster in Houston....I started to learn AWS:

    Here's mine after some cleaning. I still have all my pics. I suppose I could go through my write ups and try to reconstitute the links in AWS. The lifter valley looks the way does because there was some coolant seepage into the oil. Not too much, but enough to condense on metal parts.



    Ken T.
    Last edited by Century7667; 08-28-2017 at 07:41 PM.

  6. #21
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    Thanks. I have the FSM, so the torque specs and sequence will be spot on. I noticed on disassembly that several of the bolts were barely finger tight, and the plastic gasket were in rough shape. I already spent about 3 hours cleaning the mating surfaces on the block, probably spend another 5 or 6 on the parts that I removed. This ain't my first rodeo with LIM gaskets.

    I do still have to get the housing removed and pull the evaporator, then flush the whole AC system. Probably will end up removing the AC compressor and clean it out so I can have a complete fresh charge of PAG oil in there, without all the leak stop and dye that the shop dumped in there already to try sealing up the evaporator leaks. Of course it'll get all new o-rings for that system as well.

  7. #22
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skills4lou View Post
    Thanks. I have the FSM, so the torque specs and sequence will be spot on. I noticed on disassembly that several of the bolts were barely finger tight, and the plastic gasket were in rough shape.
    Very familiar. Mine were finger tight at the corners of the LIM. I don't think the bolts are walking out, but who knows? However, if I were to bet, I would bet the plastic gaskets aren't dimensionally stable and are shrinking. GM started putting metal tabs in their plastic gaskets later on, but they were ineffective.

    Ken T.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Keiths1976's Avatar
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    My theory it's not the dex cool that causes the gaskets to fail it's the damn thermostat set at 195 basically she's on the edge of overheating and the rapid cooling and extreme heat the seals around the coolant jackets aren designed for it . That's from the 94-2002 the 3100-3400 which was the motors thAt were effected then the new gasket set was revised in 2004-5 time frame .

  9. #24
    Senior Member CorvairGeek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Century7667 View Post
    Very familiar. Mine were finger tight at the corners of the LIM. I don't think the bolts are walking out, but who knows? However, if I were to bet, I would bet the plastic gaskets aren't dimensionally stable and are shrinking. GM started putting metal tabs in their plastic gaskets later on, but they were ineffective.

    Ken T.
    X1

    The OEM gaskets were absolute crap with any coolant. It's hard for me to believe they seal for as long as they do. I suspect oil analysis would show they are leaking a lot earlier than we are aware. Dexcool just potentially aggravates an inexcusable design.
    Jerry

  10. #25
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiths1976 View Post
    My theory it's not the dex cool that causes the gaskets to fail it's the damn thermostat set at 195 basically she's on the edge of overheating and the rapid cooling and extreme heat the seals around the coolant jackets aren designed for it . That's from the 94-2002 the 3100-3400 which was the motors thAt were effected then the new gasket set was revised in 2004-5 time frame .
    Keith,

    Y'know I never really thought about that, but yeah temperatures are likely too much for the silicone / nylon gaskets!

    Ken T.

  11. #26
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CorvairGeek View Post
    X1

    The OEM gaskets were absolute crap with any coolant. It's hard for me to believe they seal for as long as they do. I suspect oil analysis would show they are leaking a lot earlier than we are aware. Dexcool just potentially aggravates an inexcusable design.
    Ditto on that. I know my '96 was misting coolant into the crankcase. Ditto again: I have a '95 (came from the factory with Green Ethylene Glycol) and a '96 (came with Dexcool). They both looked awful on disassembly, and to be honest, if not for the 4 "sealtabs" I dropped into the '95 when I got it at 60,000 miles....it wouldn't have made it past 100k. It was so loaded with ground pecan shell (main ingredient of the seal tabs), it held longer. The stuff was packed in all breaches in the LIM gasket. Unfortunately, the seal tabs plugged the radiator on that car. I replaced the coolant and radiator a few months later, but the seal tabs stayed in the LIM holding it together until I pulled the intake. A real GM cheat if I ever saw one.

    I don't buy the Dexcool Voodoo at all. I have a 17 year old S10 with an overworked 2.2 4-cyl with 182,000 miles on it. That pitifully small engine is driven hard (not abused though) to keep up with Houston metropolitan traffic. No sealing issues whatsoever, and the original water pump lasted 147,000 miles. 3x00 engines just had crappy gaskets. I must admit though, I prefer the coolant to be green in color as it is easier to diagnose leaks (too easy to confuse Dexcool with trans fluid).

    This LIM gasket bugaboo is bad, but the more I read, I can't help but notice other V-engines have intake gasket issues as well. I'm not letting GM off the hook, but for example the Ford Essex 4.2 they put in the F150 had the issue, and the gaskets had to be redesigned by the 3rd year of production (but they fixed it!). I think what makes the 3x00 engines so bad is the modality of the leak ( coolant into crankcase!), and the fact that GM let it go so long and never really satisfactorly addressed the issue.

    Ken T.

  12. #27
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    Quick update: Picked up 5gal bucket of stoddard solvent, so my parts washer is back in business. Started cleaning, but there's a ways to go yet. I have all the parts needed now except the gaskets and evap core.

  13. #28
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    Just finished reassembly. Still need to pull a vacuum, then charge the AC system. I also flushed the entire system to remove the buckets of dye the shop put in there, and drained and refilled the compressor. All new gaskets and o-rings, new t-stat, hoses, belt tensioner, fluids, oils etc. should be good for a long time now!

  14. #29
    Senior Member Century7667's Avatar
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    Very nice! It's very satisfying to get her on her feet again, so that you can get back to just doing oil changes.

    Curious, how did you handle the heater hose at the intake manifold. Did you just go back together with the old quick connect?

    Ken T.

  15. #30
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    Amazingly enough, the quick connect was in good shape. New o-ring and a little oil and she went right back together with no leaks so far. Finding the correct coolant hose was a challenge.

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